Dazzjazz's Jimmy Smith Transcriptions in Downbeat

[LX88]

Kudos go to forum member Darren Heinrich for his recently published article in Downbeat Magazine -"Examining Jimmy Smith Licks in '56".

 

Great Work Darren.

 

I just saw this article yesterday so I haven't had time to study it, but I will be doing so in the near future.

 

I know that Darren has been doing A LOT of research and study over the past few years on the topic of jazz organ. This is the sort of thing I would like to see more of on this forum.

 

It's all well and good to discuss the latest gear ( or in my case, sometimes later gear revisited) but I kind of miss seeing more topics that would relate to practice materials.

 

I am at a bit of a handicap myself being that I am primarily self taught, and started late. It all happened when I was given a Hammond B-3 and Leslie 122 completely unexpectedly about 15 years ago. So I have been trying to figure out how to play the damn thing ever since.

 

Also of note from the latest issue of Downbeat....Joey De Francesco is offering an online study course. I haven't looked at that yet but it can be found at www.joeyd101.com.

 

The price seems good - $19.99 per month.

 

I have not seen the material yet but I will say that I have seen far too many online teaching attempts that in my opinion are virtually impossible to follow! The Truefire Pat Martino course was on Youtube awhile back and I could not make heads or tails of it.

 

So we shall see how Joey fares as a teacher.

 

Anyway I am hoping that some other forum members will be offering educational info into the world in the not too distant future.

[Mitch Towne]

The Joey DeFrancesco stuff is worth every penny.

[Al Quinn]

The Joey DeFrancesco stuff is worth every penny.

+1

[Noah DC]

These are some great resources I didn't know about - thanks for sharing.

[dazzjazz]

Thanks for the shout out LX88. I'm very happy to be published in Down Beat!

[Michael Wright]

Thanks for the shout out LX88. I'm very happy to be published in Down Beat!

Congratulations!

[jamienewman]

Available here (!):

 

http://www.downbeat.com/digitaledition/2019/DB1901/_art/DB1901.pdf

 

[jamienewman]

Thanks for the shout out LX88. I'm very happy to be published in Down Beat!

 

Is your dissertation published, or going to be published, or available somewhere, somehow? I'd love to see it. Can I buy a copy from you directly?

[cgiles]

Darren, just curious. As a previous owner of a KeyB Duo Mk111, why did you choose the 'Live' over the Legend? I have considered the 'upgrade' many times but always only considered the Legend. The main reason I have NOT upgraded is my satisfaction with the MK111. What, and how much, would I gain from an upgrade (to either the Legend or Legend Live).

 

Thanks,

 

chas

[LX88]

Before Darren gets a chance to chime in on the Viscount ( Key B ) Legend Live I wiil say it again....

 

The Legend Live kicks ants!

 

There is one thing about the Live that really does it for me. It's the way they paid attention to the detail of the percussion volume in the 5th octave, around C and D.

 

On many clones I have played the percussion is too loud on these tones, and it sticks out like a sore thumb - especially when slow decay is used.

 

But this thread was started as a discussion on educational materials so....

 

Perhaps the Joey D. teaching materials might require a separate thread. so more people could be made aware of them.

 

It's good to hear that the feedback is positive because I am sure that all of us could benefit from being able to study Joey's teachings.

 

I have seen that the ;layback has slowdown capability. Good news.

 

I would like to hear more about what people are liking about this series. Again, $19.99 per month seems like a bargain .

 

I don't actually have a copy of Downbeat ( I saw it at the library) but I want to take a good look at the material Darren has given us soon.

[dazzjazz]

My thesis is available via most university databases if you have access to those. PM me otherwise.

[dazzjazz]

Hi Chas,

 

I chose the Live due to the footprint - I don't really need the octave of preset keys (would be nice) but I do need to fit in tight spaces. The Mk3 is a fantastic organ and super reliable and I did about 300 gigs on mine. I regretfully sold it, as I cannot justify having instruments lying around depreciating not being used.

 

What do you gain? Well the Legend is more '3D' than the Mk3. The different tonewheel models have more variation to the tone - on the Mk3 you couldn't hear much difference until you pulled out the upper drawbars. That's not the case on the Legend. Each has it's own crosstalk profile too.

 

The Overdrive, Reverb and Leslie sim are all better to my ears as well. The only thing I've found lacking is this: The Mk3 was EQ'd by Joey D to sound good in most powered PA type speakers i.e. the mids were scooped out - I always had an issue hearing lower manual chords using 838000000. That's no longer the case with the Legend, which has a mid-range control. The trade off is, and I guess I'm fussy, but it's harder to find a powered speaker for the Legend. Most gigs I'm able to use my Leslie, but in some rooms with my DXR10, it doesn't sound right. However, if the stage is made of wood, then usually it sounds very good indeed. After talking to the software engineer (it's not Elvio) he suggested that the usual grade of powered speaker (Yamaha/EV/QSC) is not good enough to properly amplify it. All the brands he suggested (and uses himself) are EXPENSIVE.

 

You might find otherwise...

[LX88]

More gear talk I suppose...

 

Because of the on board EQ of the Legend Live, which has bass treble and mid I find it easier than most clones to tailor to different speakers.

 

That being said, I have generally leaned toward bass amps , or using full range 12 or 15 inch speakers and an outboard power amp.

 

The percussion is usually the thing that is compromised with powered speakers. The crossover point is so radically different than a leslie. Using something that is full range gives an effect very close to using a good Hammond tone cabinet, which is not a bad sound.

 

I get all the highs I need from a pair of ( "vintage") JBL D 130's. I use all kinds of different power amp combinations, sometimes even an integrated Yamaha or Dennon designed for home stereo.

 

 

 

 

[Al Coda]

 

I get all the highs I need from a pair of ( "vintage") JBL D 130's.

 

Yes. for the organ alone.

But today´s active PA speakers aren´t designed for just only organs, so the comparison of their x-over frequency w/ the one of a real leslie is senseless, especially because the leslie sim in the organ ideally simulates a real leslie´s x-over point already.

 

A.C.

[Al Quinn]

Great article Darren. Thank you and congrats!

[cgiles]

Thanks Darren, for the reply. Every since I reseated the circuit boards on my MK111 (at Moe's suggestion when I was having problems), it has been rock solid. To my ears (AKA 'totally subjective' ), it sounds as good or better with my 15" EV's as my C2D with my Leslie. BTW, my MS Pro145 is absolutely dismal by comparison to either one. I wish someone would make one in the same form factor that sounded good. If you have clout in the industry, push that concept, at a reasonable price, of course .

 

I may test the 'sell' market with the MK111 when I downsize and go for a Legend. I'm thinking of stripping down to just organ and my SEVEN. I, too, am starting to get anti-gas and just enjoying the ones I really love. Old age, I guess. Oh, and yes, can you shed some light on why there is such a disparity in price between the European and American market for the pedalboard. The price difference is ridiculous.

 

chas

[LX88]

I will take issue with this statement that comparing the crossover point of a leslie speaker vs. a powered speaker is " senseless".

 

First of all, I never said anything about using a leslie sim in the first place.

 

Many sims I have heard ( Key B included) affect the sound of the percussion enough that it is often be a secondary choice for me.

 

The frequency characteristics of a leslie speaker are very different from that of most 20 to 2000 Hz powered speakers. And once again, the character of the percussion is generally the thing that takes the hit.

 

During the " classic" manufacturing period of tonewheel Hammond organs ( roughly 1940 through 1975), Hammond actively discouraged the use of leslie speakers with their organs.

 

To a degree I agree with this. In a leslie everything above 800 Hz. is fed through a very small diaphragm. That's a lot of information to go through such a small driver, and one that is known to have ( among other things) alignment issues that can cause some fairly serious distortion. Unless you are very good at aligning the damn things.

 

So Hammond tone cabinets took a different approach and used 10'' or 12'' drivers to deal with the mids and the highs. As far as reproducing the mids particularly, this makes sense to me.The 12's also do a fairly good jobs of capturing all the highs, although the organ has a bit more roll off at the 4 to 6 K range.

 

Anyway I find that most powered speakers give clonewheel organs problems. Which I why I always pleaded with Elvio and Carlo Maffaei at Studiologic to include percussion volume pots in an ergonomically accessible location.

 

And wouldn't you know it.... the Legend Live now has it.

[Doerfler]

thanks for the link, Jamie.

[jamienewman]

thanks for the link, Jamie.

 

De nada.

 

I went looking for the article and was happy to find the whole magazine on-line, for free.

 

I love the IntERwEbZ.

[Al Coda]

First of all, I never said anything about using a leslie sim in the first place.

 

Many sims I have heard ( Key B included) affect the sound of the percussion enough that it is often be a secondary choice for me.

 

The frequency characteristics of a leslie speaker are very different from that of most 20 to 2000 Hz powered speakers.

 

This is what you wrote above:

"... bass amps , or using full range 12 or 15 inch speakers and an outboard power amp.

 

The percussion is usually the thing that is compromised with powered speakers. The crossover point is so radically different than a leslie. Using something that is full range gives an effect very close to using a good Hammond tone cabinet,..."

 

Didn´t you talk about the Viscount (KeyB) "Legend" ???

 

To what did you compare the x-over point of a real leslie if not comparing w/ the bass amp´s or active speaker´s x-over point ?

I mention the bass amp because there´s often a tweeter existing too.

 

And when you don´t use a real leslie w/ the Legend via the 11-pin leslie connector,- how do you deactivate the leslie sim in the Legend COMPLETELY when running from (stereo-)line out to bass-amp or active speaker(s) ?

I doubt you can deactivate the "leslie sim" in a Legend or most other clones completely.

Even when not using the "rotors", the sim´s "pre-amp" part is still active.

I guess that´s where the x-over point is typically set, the split signal then being sent to the "rotors" or bypassing the "rotors".

 

In addition,- how do you define "full range" ?

A single cone speaker (12", 15" or whatever ...) is never "full range".

It might be called so because it might offer some wider frequency range than other brand speakers or might be advertised to do so, but even the best pro single cone speakers, especially 12" and 15", come to their limits soon somewhere between 4KHz and 6.5Khz and are far from being linear.

 

That might be satisfying your imagination from organ sound,- but for most keyboardplayers not being dedicated organísts,- a real full range linear speaker like a high quality active PA speaker is much more important because we not only play organ but also a bunch of other keyboards needing amplification working great for almost everything.

 

So, a tonewheel organ clone should come w/ all the frequency-band limitation, non-linearity and sonic bells & whistles directly from it´s line-outs and sounding good thru those real fullrange active PA speakers.

 

All the discussion according to different headphones in use, different woofers and horn combos and so on, for a digital organ clone should be obsolete.

If it doesn´t sound right thru studio-standard headphones and amplification not adding (much) coloration, there´s something wrong w/ the clone.

 

A.C.

 

[LX88]

Full range means full range of the organ - not 20 to 20000 HZ.

 

Hammond tone cabinets used 10 and 12 inch drivers to reproduce the full range of tonewheel organs. No high frequency drivers were used.

 

To me the Hammond tone cabinet gives the smoothest response for tonewheel organs. It's a warm sound, very pleasant.... I don't gig with them but do use one at home. It is somewhat of a reference for me for Hammond tone.

 

The Ley B Legend live definitely has a total leslie sim bypass BTW.

 

Not all headphones and powered speakers faithfully reproduce the intended sound of organ clones. Going back to Darren's post, even HE has trouble finding a good powered speaker for the Legend. Not that there is anything wrong with the Legend.

 

I think that there are many powered speakers that color the sound of not only organ clones but most definitely digital pianos.

 

I doubt that there is much time spent by speaker designers trying to tailor their speakers for digital keyboard response.

 

So , for me at least one solution has been to eliminate high frequency drivers from the equation - as Hammond originally did. The results have been pretty good.