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Steve "Artie" Stills & his mystery 2nd guitarist ?


d  halfnote

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Chanced across this yesterday.

Dave Crosby howling abt the weather, etc, but then Mr Stills stepped forth &, using a punkish squawk tone the exact opposite of his usual smooth, highs rolled off "brownish" timbre, (I think the technical term here is "splanky") ripped a solo [3:20~4L35] that demonstrates the redundancy of Neil Jung in that band.

BUT...who's that cat tryna hide behind Crosby ? :idk

 

[video:youtube]

d=halfnote
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Almost looks like a younger version of Danny Kortchmar, who worked with the lads quite frequently over the years.

 

Such a boring and soulless performance, like most of what those cats do -- especially when Neil Young isn't part of the picture. I lost interest in CSN many years ago; my ears only perk up when the "Y" gets added.

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I agree the performance is basically "soulless", but too, IMHO, adding the "Y" wouldn't have made it less so, since he's been pretty much soulless as a solo artist.

 

And when he WAS a part of the group, pretty much unnoticeable, except when he sang one of his "pitchy" reed thin leads.

 

Yeah, you guessed it. No big Young fan here. ;)

Whitefang

I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
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First, lemme point out that CSN or CSNY or even CSNYLMNOP are not my fave band by a good long stretch but I wonder if maybe a bit of predisposition is at play here.

Hard for me to understand evaluating that vid as "soul-less", particularly the gtr solo, which I personally think resembles Neil Jung more than most work you'd find Stills usually doing.

 

NY is usually the most "shake up the standard practice" risk-taker of them but that also means he's the one who most often misses his intended target. [& yeah, Fang, his vox are even worse than Jerome Garcia's :o:facepalm: ]

To me, that's actually the main part of Mr Neils interest, though...he's like the LOu Reed of folk music...following up his early solo stuff w/something like the TONIGHT'S THE NIGHT alb.

Or this trick he pulled on Willie Nelson, who has a great sense of humor but hadda wonder, "Uh, why'm I here, again, Neil ?"

[chk his expression @ 2:26---PRICELESS !] when this scene took place.

[video:youtube]

 

 

All that aside, WHO'S THAT CAT PLAYIN' GEETAR in the OP ? :idk

d=halfnote
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Neil Young is an artist I highly respect even though I can't really enjoy him. I simply cannot listen to poor intonation in vocals, & Young's singing has always triggered all my out-of-tune alarms, even back in the Buffalo Springfield days, before I knew why I was having an issue with the intonation. He has written some lovely songs & participated in some very memorable music making. However, just like the Grateful Dead, I really want to hear somebody else singing those songs.

In their heyday, I thought CS&N were wonderful, & really defined an era in great popular music making.

 

ps: I typed this before seeing D's riposte. Interesting we both compared NY's vocals to Grateful Dead's. For me, artistic integrity aside, out of tuneness really gets in the way, not that I fault someone with less than Allison Kraussian pitch, but it limits how deeply I can follow somebody's artistic exploration. That said, people who start outside the box vocally & explore that territory exclusively, Tom Waits, Captain Beefheart, Bob Dylan, I have no problem with, because it's all about something other than pitch.

Scott Fraser
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I think as much as anything it's not that some sing out of tune or off key as much as they have a weak timbre (although that can't be applied to Beefheart).

 

But do I hafta actually track down the ID of that gtr cat myself !!! :D

d=halfnote
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[/quote=] But do I hafta actually track down the ID of that gtr cat myself !!! :D

 

Can't help you there, but I will say these are obviously imposters, since the CS&N I know play Gretsches.

 

ps; anybody know why this forum is now quoting incorrectly? I hit Quote & it doesn't put the post I'm replying to into its familiar format. I've done this thousands of times here, & now it's not working right. What up?

Scott Fraser
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Pardon me for replying to myself (I think that's the title of a Sly Stone song :D )

but as I worked on something else YTube did it's "If you liked that, maybe you'll like this" thing & continued playing vids.

I was almost asleep when I heard this...

Now, despite Crosby's cautious intro, these cats could likely play this tune in their sleep & prolly have

(so see, Mark, I don't totally disgree w/ yer assessment of them)

but then I heard what you will if you chk the 5:40~6:14 mark.

:o

[video:youtube]

 

Unfortunately they quickly went back to Classic Rock Radio mode.

d=halfnote
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I don't care for Neil Young's vocals or guitar playing. Some of his writing is OK...I think his best days were with CS&N. I remember that Willie Nelson video clip and asked the same question. Why invite him to play and then not let him take a turn...I think Neil thinks Neil is much better, than he really is... :cool:
Take care, Larryz
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When Neil Young was younger and had the fire of succeeding early on in his career, I liked a lot of what he did. His first solo album entitled Niel Young was outstanding. I wore out several copies of that first Neil Young solo album and then wore out several LP's of his second release entitled Everybody Knows This is Nowhere as well.

 

I was a big admirer of Buffalo Springfield, and followed the guys into their subsequent careers for a bit.

 

Now that said, that is the last of his solo stuff that I liked. I also liked CS&N and CSN&Y's early releases.

 

I learned a lot of Niels tunes on acoustic guitar back in the day. I saw him live on his first solo tour after Buffalo Springfield at The Electric Factory in Philly. He came out with his acoustic and blew me away with his playing and vocals. Then Crazy Horse came out and they also put on a magnificent show with Niel. However that is the last bit of stuff of his that I admired except with CSN&Y which I kinda liked until they forgot how to sing harmony in key.

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Sure, d, that performance came off WAY better than their '69 WOODSTOCK one, y'know, where Stills gave the excuse of being "scared shitless!" ;)

 

And too many have asked me...

 

"HOW can you say you hate YOUNG'S singing, but still LIKE DYLAN?"

 

I'll admit it seems a paradox, but I think it's that old Dylan fans HAVE actually heard him sing fairly to very well and do the "talk-sing, screech" thing later. ;)

Whitefang

I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
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I remember that Willie Nelson video clip and asked the same question. Why invite him to play and then not let him take a turn...

Actually Neil did give Willie a turn.

@ 3:42 Mr Jung starts playing a (relatively) quieter line, apparently intended as a bed for Nelson, & trots over on his Crazy Horse to stands directly in front of Wiley Willie while they exchange licks...it's just that while Neil was channeling Hendrix there, Nelson's gtr Trigger was totally out-gunned loudness-wise !

Take a look....

 

d=halfnote
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"HOW can you say you hate YOUNG'S singing, but still LIKE DYLAN?"

 

I'll admit it seems a paradox, but I think it's that old Dylan fans HAVE actually heard him sing fairly to very well and do the "talk-sing, screech" thing later.

That's true.

Under the heavily equalized production of Bob Johnston on NEW MORNING & NASHRAMBLER SKYLINE, the Dyl's vox were not only melodic but sweetly lacking in their rough edges. See/hear below...

 

When Neil Young was younger and had the fire of succeeding early on in his career, I liked a lot of what he did. His first solo album entitled Niel Young was outstanding. I wore out several copies of that first Neil Young solo album and then wore out several LP's of his second release entitled Everybody Knows This is Nowhere as well.

 

I was a big admirer of Buffalo Springfield, and followed the guys into their subsequent careers for a bit.

 

Now that said, that is the last of his solo stuff that I liked. I also liked CS&N and CSN&Y's early releases.

 

I learned a lot of Niels tunes on acoustic guitar back in the day. I saw him live on his first solo tour after Buffalo Springfield at The Electric Factory in Philly. He came out with his acoustic and blew me away with his playing and vocals. Then Crazy Horse came out and they also put on a magnificent show with Niel. However that is the last bit of stuff of his that I admired except with CSN&Y which I kinda liked until they forgot how to sing harmony in key.

 

As we reel out the Neil Jung tack the thread's taken, here are 3 trax that demonstrate his true value as an artist (hint:it ain't the vox) but do not help me ID the mystery guitarist

+ 1 that demonstrates how Bob Johnston tried to make the Dyl into a pop music crooner.

 

Unexpectedly beautiful melody & majestic quasi-Brian Wilson / Jimmy Webb production.

[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAjr0xyyt0Q

 

Neil's 19th Nervous Breakdown aka "I think I'm John Lennon"

[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6LVIi7pzZI

 

Neil delivers a killer (pun intended) gtr solo in an apparent audition for Pink Floyd

[video:youtube]

 

Bob the Dyl tells Mama what he needs

[video:youtube]

 

 

NOW, abt that gtr cat...

 

d=halfnote
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I remember that Willie Nelson video clip and asked the same question. Why invite him to play and then not let him take a turn...

Actually Neil did give Willie a turn.

@ 3:42 Mr Jung starts playing a (relatively) quieter line, apparently intended as a bed for Nelson, & trots over on his Crazy Horse to stands directly in front of Wiley Willie while they exchange licks...it's just that while Neil was channeling Hendrix there, Nelson's gtr Trigger was totally out-gunned loudness-wise !

Take a look....

 

I looked at it again at 3:42 and it was just as bad as I remembered it the 1st time. Why would you invite a star to share the stage and blow him out of the woodwork? All you can see is Willie's fingers moving...no vocal part...no lead that anyone can hear...just a Neil Young being his usual full of himself performance...and no respect. It sucks IMHO. :cool:

Take care, Larryz
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;)

 

I just recalled a friend of mine who said HE liked the HARVEST album because the coarse textured cover was perfect for separating seeds from the rest of the stash. :freak::laugh:

Whitefang

I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
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I remember that Willie Nelson video clip and asked the same question. Why invite him to play and then not let him take a turn...

Actually Neil did give Willie a turn.

@ 3:42 Mr Jung starts playing a (relatively) quieter line, apparently intended as a bed for Nelson, & trots over on his Crazy Horse to stands directly in front of Wiley Willie while they exchange licks...it's just that while Neil was channeling Hendrix there, Nelson's gtr Trigger was totally out-gunned loudness-wise !

Take a look....

 

I looked at it again at 3:42 and it was just as bad as I remembered it the 1st time. Why would you invite a star to share the stage and blow him out of the woodwork? All you can see is Willie's fingers moving...no vocal part...no lead that anyone can hear...just a Neil Young being his usual full of himself performance...and no respect. It sucks IMHO. :cool:

 

That's all part of the mystery of Neil, eh ?

&, while I do like some (hardly all) of his work myself & applaud his refusal to slide into total "retrosity" (or Retro City) it's also why I like to call him Mr Jung.

 

Let's face it, if we're looking for modern contrarian rockers ala Lennon or the Dyl, who else we got ?

Consider the motivation behind a song such as this...

A kinda nice musical mood piece til the harmonica (& yes, the emphasis is on harmonica)

but ... how long can I stretch a single syllable ?

Is the song really "I'll be quirky" ? :idk

[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG0A1yGHIzs

 

I just recalled a friend of mine who said HE liked the HARVEST album because the coarse textured cover was perfect for separating seeds from the rest of the stash.

Maybe this is the tune Willie thought he was gonna get to sing in The Incident Cited Above.

[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faWRUevPHno

d=halfnote
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I love Neil Young. I also love Steely Dan, The Bee Gees, ABBA, Supertramp and The Sex Pistols. So I can't delineate what makes me respond so heavily to some things except... I dunno? Emotional resonance or something?

 

I'm also a big fan of Graham Nash's first two solo records.

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The original vid backs up my personal law that there should only be one Stratocaster onstage in any band on any song, with the exception of Dire Straits, and someone is going to point to some "Rubber Soul" and "Revolver" tracks, so okay... well, they knew better than to do it live.
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I'm sure he gets it multiple ways...anything that rolls off the highs. To me it's like an exaggerated Clapton "brown" timbre.

 

Here's the classic tone (I don't think it's the orig, though :idk )

[video:youtube]

 

This clip he's using a Firebird...although it also sounds not as dark as sometimes.

(FWIW, I think both Crosby & Nash may be undergoing altered consciousness experiences to diff results :o )

[video:youtube]

 

Here, w/ the same gtr (I guess), it's a bit more muted

[video:youtube]

 

Oddly, I didn't find a clip definitively w/Gretsch.

 

d=halfnote
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@ d, I give Neil a lot of credit for his showing up to help Willie with the Farm Aid programs. I just wanted to hear Willie sing a line or two of All Along The Watchtower and/or do a little nylon guitar improv and was really let down a little. Jimi did a great job on the tune back in the day, but I still love the original by Dylan best. When I ran across the clip title on YouTube of Willie and Neil, I was really looking forward to hearing them together...as it's one of my favorite tunes...but it just didn't happen for me. :cry:
Take care, Larryz
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Kinda know how you feel...

 

You mention Jimi's "All Along The Watchtower", but the last time I saw him( early '69) it was still a big radio "hit", but he said they weren't then ready yet to do it live with any justice. :(

Whitefang

I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
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I'm an old fan of Willie Nelson and have always enjoyed his vocals. I think he could have done justice to Watchtower and wished he had done a version back in his hey days. Jimi's version is probably better known than Dylan's and there were many that I had played with long ago, that didn't even know it was a Dylan tune LOL! I didn't care for Guns and Rose's version although it was a hit. I do like Eric Clapton's Reggae version. So when I thought I was going to hear Willie do it (even with Neil Young), I was all ears and at the end of the clip I wondered why they even mentioned Willie in the title... :cool:

 

 

 

Take care, Larryz
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@ d, I give Neil a lot of credit for his showing up to help Willie with the Farm Aid programs. I just wanted to hear Willie sing a line or two of All Along The Watchtower and/or do a little nylon guitar improv and was really let down a little. Jimi did a great job on the tune back in the day, but I still love the original by Dylan best. When I ran across the clip title on YouTube of Willie and Neil, I was really looking forward to hearing them together...as it's one of my favorite tunes...but it just didn't happen for me. :cry:

Well, even the Dyl quickly adopted the JH arrangement & continues so (as far as I know).

Per Jung vs Nelson, I know what you mean & that's part of what I said when I 1st introduced that clip but, hey, that's why I call him Mr Jung.

I've met Nelson & read some of his writing. He has quite a sense of humor.

I bet later, when he was fuming & :puff: he prolly started laughing and considered it a good practical joke...maybe.

 

FWIW,I couldn't find W N doing Watchtower but there are several surprising versions floating out there in hyperspace...

 

The Dyl just gotta be The Dyl & sing how he sings

[video:youtube]

 

TheNashville Teens :freak:

[video:youtube]

 

Lenny Kravitz, Clapton & Some Cat Who Stole The Dyl's hat

[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fMvW_FtALU

 

Michael Hedges does it the way you mighta thought Neil Jung would

[video:youtube]

 

Skater hits the street...not literally

[video:youtube]

 

Oddball electro-folkie version

kinda interesting,actually

[video:youtube]

 

Beatles rehearsal

[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1jO3bNBvJw

 

 

AND THE WINNER IS...

Warren Haynes & Derek Trucks go low-key jazzbo

[this one's really cool !]

[video:youtube]

d=halfnote
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I long thought it funny that THIS tune got all that attention, while MY favorite tune(s) from Dylan's JOHN WESLEY HARDING were;

 

THE BALLAD OF FRANKIE LEE and JUDAS PRIEST

and

I'LL BE YOUR BABY TONIGHT

 

With EVIL MESSENGER getting honorable mention

;)

Whitefang PS: I think Willie would do DOWN ALONG THE COVE a lot of justice. :)

I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
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I like playing and singing I'll Be Your Baby Tonight...I like all of the tunes on the Wesley Harding Album. It was Dylan's attempt at returning to the folk vibe after 61. I really like Dear Landlord... :cool:

 

@d, lots of interesting versions out there...didn't care for Dylan's LOL! Forgot about the Nashville Teens doing it! Like Clapton's lead...and the last bluesy cut was cool too! :cool:

 

Take care, Larryz
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[1] The reason Watchtower got stuck in the popular mind is, somewhat obviously, the Hendrix arrangement.

 

[2] Per what classical scholars call The Watchtower Variations (in particular that by the Dyl)...remember that part of the Dyl's response to his popularity is to defiantly subvert the expectations of his fans.

As he once said [actual quote], "Ppl come up to me alla time & talk as if they know me. Those ppl don't know me---& I can prove that in a court of law !" :rolleyes:

 

[3] Yeah that version by Haynes & Trucks is a keeper ! :rawk:

 

[4] Here's another Dyl take, somewhat less hysterically headlong.

My fave part is @2:15 when he seems to vocally illustrate the line "...the hour's getting late !" by yawning while he sings it !

& some say the cat's got no sense of humor ! :D

[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2RFKxAiH84

d=halfnote
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