Aidan Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Adding lots of new features, including composing for video. Might be time to make the leap at last, methinks... [video:youtube] Studio: Yamaha P515 | Yamaha Tyros 5 | Yamaha HX1 | Moog Sub 37 Road: Yamaha YC88 | Nord Electro 5D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoken6 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Is support for chord symbols a new feature (0:21)? This thread suggests it wasn't available historically. Thanks for alerting us Aidan, Cheers, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted May 30, 2018 Author Share Posted May 30, 2018 Chord symbols has been in for a while, Mike, about v1.1 I think. Studio: Yamaha P515 | Yamaha Tyros 5 | Yamaha HX1 | Moog Sub 37 Road: Yamaha YC88 | Nord Electro 5D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Schmieder Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Thanks for the info -- it might be time for me to jump. A lot of people have been holding out due to the lack of support for film composing. Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, D'angelico SS Bari, EXL1, Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, LP 57, Eastman T486, T64, Ibanez PM2, Hammond XK4, Moog Voyager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Nice I havent had chance to try yet but have been watching this closely. Ive learned Sibelius and can bang out most everything I need quickly without needing to crack manual. But Ill be the first to say theres always room for improvmemt in UI. Theyre focus has been largely of quality of graphics and print results. Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Paxton Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 I know almost nothing about the product, but listing rhythm slashes and repeat bars among the "powerful new features" doesn't exactly make me want to learn more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zephonic Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 It's cool to see the Sibelius guys doing their thing at Steinberg, but at this point I don't see myself switching until touch-based apps like Notion or Staffpad fully mature. Learning another point-and-click application seems like a waste of time. local: Korg Nautilus 73 | Yamaha MODX8 away: GigPerformer home: Kawai RX-2 | Korg D1 | Roland Fantom X7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauriziodececco Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 What about Dorico Elements ? Was it there for the previous version ? It look like an other interesting option for lead sheet and simple work. Maurizio Nord Wave 2, Nord Electro 6D 61,, Rameau upright, Hammond Pro44H Melodica. Too many Arturia, NI and AAS plugins http://www.barbogio.org/ https://barbogio.bandcamp.com/follow_me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 Dorico Elements is new, and brings the product into the Steinberg model of cut down and full versions. As far as Notion and Staffpad are concerned, they are reproducing a method of music writing which, while familiar to most, is relatively inefficient. I'm not going to be swapping InDesign for an iPad Pro and Apple Pencil any time soon for exactly the same reasons. A person who takes some time to become proficient with (typewriter) keyboard entry on Sibelius or Dorico is going to be able to beat the speed of 'writing' directly on a score any day of the week. Also, 'hunt and peck' text entry speeds on a tablet vs those on a proper physical keyboard? Meh. The fact that I will have to learn a new paradigm and set of key commands has held me back from hopping to Dorico until now, but I feel the time may have come. I'm at Sibelius 7 (which is vastly inferior to 6, btw) and don't want to go over to yet another subscription model (already having basically no choice about that re: Adobe Creative Suite). Admittedly, it would have been cool if Dorico had been gifted with the ability to at least partially reproduce the Sibelius key commands, just as InDesign did with Quark XPress. That was a big factor in winning over Quark users like myself at the time. But I guess it wouldn't really translate, having watched some of the Dorico tutorials. Studio: Yamaha P515 | Yamaha Tyros 5 | Yamaha HX1 | Moog Sub 37 Road: Yamaha YC88 | Nord Electro 5D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donsta Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 I'm a longtime user of Sibelius. With this version I'm ready to make the switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zephonic Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 A person who takes some time to become proficient with (typewriter) keyboard entry on Sibelius or Dorico is going to be able to beat the speed of 'writing' directly on a score any day of the week. Maybe I'm not doing it right, but I still write faster by hand than with the mouse/keyboard. Where Sibelius wins is 'undo', of course. Correcting mistakes with an eraser does slow the process down, but you wouldn't have that problem with a tablet. I have used neither Staffpad, nor Notion, so I can't comment on how well those work. But the thought of being able to just write the notes on a staff really appeals to me. local: Korg Nautilus 73 | Yamaha MODX8 away: GigPerformer home: Kawai RX-2 | Korg D1 | Roland Fantom X7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GovernorSilver Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 As far as Notion and Staffpad are concerned, they are reproducing a method of music writing which, while familiar to most, is relatively inefficient. Yeah, I'm not a fan of the Notion workflow, but I want to get more serious about writing jazz etudes for myself. Entering the chord symbols for a lead sheet is fairly fast, but if I want to preview how my etude will sound, I apparently have to: 1. Put in rhythm slashes for the chord chart. 2. Save the chord chart to one part of the "score". 3. Create another part for the melody line. This is what has to be done if I want to hear the chords and the melody line at the same time in Notion. Entering the melody line is quite a bit slower than entering the chords too. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be anything better for composing jazz etudes on iOS. Leadsheets by Compoze has a quicker workflow, but does not save more than 3 charts without IAP. Touch Notation looks more promising but does not import tunes exported from iReal Pro. I'll keep an eye out for Dorico. Some talk of a possible IOS port on the Steinberg forums according to Google. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 I'll "probably" grab the crossgrade soon. My .sib subscription runs out in like 25 days and I'll have to renew that again I'm afraid because I have tons of .sib pieces that I'll need to convert to xml. I think I can batch process them all, but I'll still wanna have both programs just to make sure that everything can be opened and played. Dorico looks really nice though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 Maybe I'm not doing it right, but I still write faster by hand than with the mouse/keyboard. Don't wish to appear flippant, but I think that you may indeed not be doing it right. I rarely touch the mouse in Sibelius. It takes a while to learn the keyboard shortcuts but then you really fly. I suspect you may be using the mouse to click notes on to the staff, as was a friend of mine who recently asked me for a quick Sibelius tutorial as he had been given a copy of 7 to use and hadn't touched the program since v3. When I didn't use the mouse the whole demo, it blew his mind. Studio: Yamaha P515 | Yamaha Tyros 5 | Yamaha HX1 | Moog Sub 37 Road: Yamaha YC88 | Nord Electro 5D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Theres a lot of things that blow pen and paper away. But just for starters, calling up a stock template or one youve made yourself, copy/paste, transpose by interval, transpose by key, and re-pitch stuff youve already entered. Just like learning pen and paper, learn the software and see how fast you get. Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Schmieder Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 The website shows the differences, and to me it makes no sense to go with Elements vs. the cross-grade price from Finale. Finale and Sibelius have both "sort-of" been abandonware products for a few years now. Not entirely true, and both get maintenance releases and some tweaks here and there, but stability and platform issues aren't as quickly (or completely) addressed, and I have a pretty good feeling that Dorico has the largest development staff at the moment, and wouldn't be surprised if Yamaha is pumping in money to make sure it happens, given their commitment to the education market. Notion isn't at the same level. I bought it when it came out, and keep upgrading, because it was more musician-oriented vs. publisher-oriented and thus I found the workflow less disruptive to remembering what I'm trying to do before the idea is lost. Now it's essentially folded into StudioOne. Notion is a great tool for educators in particular, and that was their main focus anyway. What I'm not yet clear on, is whether Dorico Elements is a different interface and/or whether it comes with the full version. Sort of like how Notion eventually folded in the guitar tab-based product that you originally had to buy separately. Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, D'angelico SS Bari, EXL1, Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, LP 57, Eastman T486, T64, Ibanez PM2, Hammond XK4, Moog Voyager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Schmieder Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Some of us are memory-challenged when it comes to shortcuts. I rarely bother, as I use so many apps, none of which share shortcuts. I can't retain them if I don't use them everyday. So I doubt that anything will ever be faster than pen and paper for me, or less prone to losing part of the idea during transcription. I just hope to eventually be able to afford a special device (they sell them already, but at quite a price) for scribing electronically (along with handwriting recognition). Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, D'angelico SS Bari, EXL1, Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, LP 57, Eastman T486, T64, Ibanez PM2, Hammond XK4, Moog Voyager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Hughes Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 I know almost nothing about the product, but listing rhythm slashes and repeat bars among the "powerful new features" doesn't exactly make me want to learn more. Dorico 1 was definitely missing a lot of common features (as was 1.5), but it also contained a TON of features that were clearly aimed at classical composers (many of which I had not just no use for, but no knowledge of, period). So, I wouldn't dismiss it just because the first one-and-a-half versions focused on a particular type of music. I haven't download the upgrade yet, but it seems like it's got most of what was missing for pop and jazz charts, and right from version 1, it's seemed the easiest to get professional looking results out of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Schmieder Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Also, you would be amazed at how fast some of us can write notation on paper. I always start with shorthand techniques, so I don't lose important aspects during the mechanical process of writing things down (the overwhelming majority of my musical works come to me in blinding flashes, even when fully orchestrated, and this is common amongst composers). Unless there are equivalents in music notation apps, then even those who can easily remember keyboard shortcuts are still going to be slower than most of us composers are with pencil and paper. I detail things later on, once I'm confident I caught the essence and wrote down enough stuff to remember the details that I deliberately left out. If I detail right away, I run the risk of losing the essence, as writing (whether with pencil and paper, or with a computer) is a different mind space from composing. Most artists do quick sketches right away, even if they intend to do a huge and massively detailed oil painting later on. It's the same idea. Computers are still very linear and "one shoe fits all" in terms of workflows and interfaces. I see the main purpose of notation programs as being for rearranging and finessing things after pencil and paper, good lead sheets, parts extraction with appropriate clefs and markings for each instrument, and also for copyrighting a work. Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, D'angelico SS Bari, EXL1, Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, LP 57, Eastman T486, T64, Ibanez PM2, Hammond XK4, Moog Voyager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Schmieder Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Reality check on cross-grade prices (it doesn't matter what you currently own, in terms of the cross-grade offer): SonicScores Overture = $119 Sibelius = $169 Dorico 1 = $249 Dorico 2 = $279 I have yet to see discounts on Steinberg cross-grades, except for WaveLab a month or so ago (when I grabbed it, just a week before we got surprised by the update and overhaul of DSP Quattro to v5). Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, D'angelico SS Bari, EXL1, Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, LP 57, Eastman T486, T64, Ibanez PM2, Hammond XK4, Moog Voyager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Does Wavelab require the elicenser? Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Schmieder Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 I don't think so. I prefer the physical dongle, because it has proven less problematic during computer switches or OS upgrades than "soft e-licenses". It may be that only trial/demo copies can use the Soft e-License vs. a USB-eLicenser though. A challenge/response approach, or drag/drop license file, is not an option for Steinberg products. I'm not sure if that was your question, so answered both potential interpretations. :-) Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, D'angelico SS Bari, EXL1, Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, LP 57, Eastman T486, T64, Ibanez PM2, Hammond XK4, Moog Voyager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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