2018 ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME

[Larryz]

The 2018 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductees are:

 

Bon Jovi

Dire Straits (speaking of our Mark Knopfler thread)

The Cars

Moody Blues

Late Jazz singer Nina Simone

Sister Rosetta Tharpe

 

Congratulations!

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/music/news/2018-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-class-announced-inductees-include-bon-jovi-and-dire-straits/ar-BBGGdDj?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp

 

[whitefang]

And about time for Nina.

 

"Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood" was one of my favorite songs by The Animals until I finally heard Nina's original version.

Whitefang

[d halfnote]

Sister Rosetta Who ?

This who !

The Sister that put rock into gospel before Brother Ray put gospel into rock.

"There's music in the air !"

[if ya can't wait, dial up 1:23 & go,,,& if ya think maybe she's just a raw blues player, dig the line she throws in 1:45 ~1:50]

 

[video:youtube]

 

More ?

Watch how she turns a rainy day into a spontaneous eruption of pure personality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnAQATKRBN0

[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnAQATKRBN0

[Scott Fraser]

Nina Simone was a great singer & activist, but not really rock & roll.

Sister Rosetta, though, was one of the true founders of rock. She was the baddest of the bad.

[whitefang]

Rock'n'Roll has taken on many facets over the years, and you have to agree that there's some in the HOF that many don't consider "Rock'n'Roll" artists. I mean, if RAY CHARLES, BOB MARLEY, ARETHA FRANKLIN and (oy!) MADONNA can get in, why NOT NINA?

 

[video:youtube]

 

And isn't induction NOT limited to R&R's artists, but also those who helped INFLUENCE them?

Whitefang

[Larryz]

Nina Simone was a great singer & activist, but not really rock & roll.

Sister Rosetta, though, was one of the true founders of rock. She was the baddest of the bad.

 

+1 on Sister Rosetta Scott!

 

@ Fang, I think the Animals picking on one of Nina's songs might be able to show some influence, but the Animals would be a better choice as proven by their induction in 1994. I think Nina belongs more in the jazz singers genre...she is definitely good!

[d halfnote]

Hmmm, what I wonder now is who'll be indicting---oops, I mean inducting the Moody Blues & whether Denny Laine will be there...

One would almost think Sir James Paul McCartney, Esq, would be the logical choice but then maybe Denny might crack him o'er the head w/ the statuette...

 

[Scott Fraser]

I'm not wanting to deny Nina Simone anything. She was a wonderful artist, & equally skilled as a pianist as well as vocalist. Also an important voice & activist during the Civil Rights movement. Just saying it's an odd choice for the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame since that wasn't her genre at all. But anything which brings her some notice to an audience which probably doesn't know her is good in my book.

[whitefang]

Well, the point was Scott that RAY CHARLES too is in the HOF, and so is Aretha, and neither one considered themselves to be "rock'n'Roll". And true too, (and I'm in agreement) is that it's good for Nina to get the notice and exposure to those who might not otherwise know about her.

Whitefang

[Larryz]

Fang, I don't know how you (and or the Ray and Aretha themselves) would not consider them as a major part of rock and roll! For example here's Ray:

 

[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rggldf1c6c

 

here's Aretha:

 

[video:youtube]

 

You can call it soul but that too is a major part of what I call rock and roll...

 

Both are deserving for the R&R Hall of Fame in my book...

[whitefang]

I never said they WEREN'T. ONLY that THEY never thought of themselves as rock'n'roll artists. As for US, we just liked the music and didn't care WHAT anybody else called it.

 

BTW----before she belted out all that great "soul" music for Atlantic, Aretha tried her hand as a diverse genre singer( jazz, standards, a bit of R&B, etc.) on the Columbia label. Before that she gloriously lead her Father's church choir and recorded several gospel albums and even "toured" around to various other churches. A guy I worked with found a few of them and let me borrow a few. She was only about 15 or so at the time, but MAN! That gal could SANG!

 

[video:youtube]https://youtu.be/wtNd1BEn5zI

 

Whitefang

[Larryz]

Many singers like Aretha and Elvis (both big on singing Gospel) got their start singing in church. It's part of the birth of the blues and the birth of rock and roll. That YouTube clip of Aretha really brings out the blues vibe. Aretha pretty much stuck with the blues vibe singing what I call soul music, and has always been one of my favorites. She probably sings more Jazz and Pop these days than she did back in the day...

 

Ray, on the other hand, crossed over into country, rock and roll, blues, jazz, Pop etc. He is probably my all-time favorite. Between him and Elvis, they both took the songs and did them their way. That's probably why I love re-doing the old tunes and throwing my little twists on them. I get accused of jazzing up the old country songs by a couple of buds and they do have a point LOL! In fact I was playing for 4 hours with one of them and he asked how the old country boys liked my stuff (as a dig) and I told him the last country gig about 3 months ago, they all loved what I did. Then I taught him a new lick that I wrote for one of my covers and he really liked it LOL! Improvisation and re-arranging is in my blood and I know two rock and rollers that are responsible for it, Elvis and Ray! I'm more like the way Ray describes his music to be and don't consider myself a rock and roller (although it's still my favorite). I like being versatile and cross over into more that just one genre.

[whitefang]

Y'know, I've always considered Ray Charles a genre unto himself. His ability to take ANY song, from ANY quarter, do it HIS way and make it his OWN was nothing short of miraculous.

 

He could even make Rogers & Hammerstein "swing"!

 

[video:youtube]

 

First saw him do this on SNL about 40 years ago..

Whitefang

[desertbluesman]

The 2018 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductees are:

 

Bon Jovi

Dire Straits (speaking of our Mark Knopfler thread)

The Cars

Moody Blues

Late Jazz singer Nina Simone

Sister Rosetta Tharpe

Congratulations!

 

Way cool lineup very diverse......

[desertbluesman]

Y'know, I've always considered Ray Charles a genre unto himself. His ability to take ANY song, from ANY quarter, do it HIS way and make it his OWN was nothing short of miraculous.

 

He could even make Rogers & Hammerstein "swing"!

 

Ray was an outstanding talent, that evolved from great to awesome.....

[whitefang]

Y'know, I've been giving this all a bit of thought lately. There's people inducted into ALL Hall Of Fames(baseball, Hockey, Nascar, etc.) that many people either haven't heard of or feel shouldn't have been. And who gets inducted into the Rock'n'Roll HOF doesn't really improve, ruin or otherwise affect our lives, so why get upset about who gets in or not? I mean, agreement or disagreement with the choices does lead to some lively discussion, but in the grand scheme of things, it really doesn't matter to anyone but the still living inductees. And even if our individual preferences DON'T get chosen, it won't be cause for any of us to like them any less. Nor question their talent, right?

 

Elsewhere I mentioned early British rocker TOMMY STEELE celebrating his 81st birthday today. Now, to my knowledge, he's never been nominated, let alone inducted, and his presence in the genre predates British "pop" star CLIFF RICHARDS, who's been inducted some years back.It's just what it is I guess, and no use in second guessint the why of it all. And for example:

 

From '56, as much as I can discern.....(and what make of axe is he playin'?)

 

[video:youtube]

 

Whitefang

 

[Larryz]

You pretty much need to play baseball, drive a race car, skate with a stick, etc. to be inducted in those HOF's...the same should be true for the Rock and Roll hall of fame. You should be able to play, write, sing, etc., Rock and Roll. It's a hard thing to define but some like the YouTube vid you posted of Tommy Steele, leave little doubt IMHO.

 

ps. no idea of what that guitar is he's playing, but it looks pretty cool! That sax player playing on the floor is pretty hot too!

[d halfnote]

It might be worth reading the info here:

https://www.rockhall.com/inductees/induction-process

 

Some particular points...

NOMINATIONS

Ballots are then sent to more than 900 historians, members of the music industry and artistsincluding every living Rock Hall inducteeand the five performers receiving the most votes become that year's induction class. Beginning in 2012, fans were given the chance to vote for the nominees they'd like to see inducted into the Rock Hall. The top five vote-getters in the public poll form one ballot, which is weighted the same as the rest of the submitted ballots.

ELIGIBILITY

Artistsa group encompassing performers, composers and/or musiciansbecome eligible for induction 25 years after the release of their first commercial recording. Besides demonstrating unquestionable musical excellence and talent, inductees will have had a significant impact on the development, evolution and preservation of rock & roll.

 

There's more onsite including a worthy definition of R&R..

 

I'd say that 2 of the bug tricks to getting in are [1] getting enough votes & [2] demonstrating a "significant impact on the development, evolution and preservation of rock & roll".

That last would eliminate Tommy Steele, for example.

 

BTW & FWIW

That sax player playing on the floor is pretty hot too!

Hardly unique however.

 

 

[Larryz]

I did read it and still stand by my comment(s). There is no unique requirement or category for the playing of the sax or other instruments, and I was referring more to what he was playing as apart from the fact he could play it while laying on the floor. Much like Jimi playing the guitar behind his neck or SRV behind his back, those are for show but may have historical value as well. I don't see Tommy being eliminated as his style of playing does give a significant impact on the preservation of the old rock and roll history IMHO. Much like the Stray Cats, Elvis, Roy, Chuck, Little Richard, Fats, Carl, Jerry Lee and so many others, the old R&R genre must be preserved IMHO and you can hear it in what Tommy does. Yes there are many departures from rock and roll and it's original definition(s), but the style being shared in the YT clip still holds a major historical place in the R&R HOF IMHO much like Sister Tharpe's. I have no objection to the way the nominees are picked or voted upon since 2012. I still like to see the older guys get inducted before they pass on. There are too many to list, all of whom I appreciate...

[Delta]

I'm glad that finally, more of the artists that I grew up with (mainly the 70s) are being inducted. There are still way too many of them not in, but I'm liking the trend. I looked over the entire list of inductees today. There was a lot of, "How the hell did he/she/they get in? What the hell were they thinking?" going on in my mind. That's what makes it frustrating at times not having much more deserving artists in there.

[d halfnote]

Not tryna argue w/ ya, LarZ, just point out that, as per the R&R House of Pancakes rules, there are only gonna be a very few selected each year &, as any review of history shows, there are likely more worthy candidates any year than the numbers allow.

 

Further, there are always gonna be partisan faves that get neglected, even if they might fit the criteria or deserve inclusion, as Delta feels.

 

Personally I don't think T Steele fits the criteria for several reasons (mostly his lack if influence) but whatever in his particular case.

Capt Beefheart's not gonna get in, except as one of those special awards, nor do I think the Easybeats, Little Feat, ; the house bands at Motown, Stax, Hi Records or Muscle Shoals; producers Lieber & Stoller, Holland-Dozier-Holland or George Martin & a looooooong list of others players, composers, etc, will make it.

Reviewing the list of earlier inductees I didn't see Howlin' Wolf, the Penguins ("Earth Angel"), Steve Miller, Patti LaBelle (w/ or w/put the Bluebelles) or Richard Berry (the cat that wrote/ recorded "Louie, Louie"), all of whom seem logical memebrs.

:idk

 

2 options:

Accept that it's a popularity contest more than a truly qualitative evaluation of talent &

join the voting throng next year to, y'know, make the world a better place for posterity....

 

I prefer to speculate, as mentioned above, abt whether Denny Laines gonna be there &, if the Mppdies are introduced by contemporary & big fan Sir Paul MaccaLottaMoney, Laine might, uh, "share the award".

[whitefang]

I've noticed too that it's not only groups, but individuals from some groups that get inducted too. Many of course, had their own solo careers that went well after the inducted group they were in got inducted( like all the Beatles separately). but not all.

 

And while I'm not wringing my hands over it, I do wonder in this case why both DANNY CEDRONE and FRANNY BEECHER of Bill Hayley's Comets didn't get individual mentions. And really, Danny was finally inducted a few years ago, but as a member of The Comets, which he never was a full time member of. Probably a way for the Hall to placate Cedrone's survivors.

 

In another forum the Oscars go through this sort of thing every year too.

Whitefang

[d halfnote]

There is some backtracking at the R&R HOF.

There a James Brown listing then yrs later the Famous Flames, for example.

 

[Larryz]

I know Delta got one of his favorites recognized after many years last time around. I agree d, there is only so many that get into the HOF each year. We all have our favorites and wish the HOF would get around to them someday. Bon Jovi's been around since '83 and I really love their song Wanted Dead or Alive that came out in '86. Dire Straits is another favorite of mine and they did Sultans of Swing back in '78. And the Moody Blues did The Story in Your Eyes back in '71. And the Cars have been around since the late 70's. So I've been waiting a long time to see these groups finally getting the recognition they deserve.

[whitefang]

I'd say that 2 of the bug tricks to getting in are [1] getting enough votes & [2] demonstrating a "significant impact on the development, evolution and preservation of rock & roll".

That last would eliminate Tommy Steele, for example.

 

Well, that's what you'd say, but that and a dime wouldn't get you a cup of coffee. Truly, to the Hall it doesn't matter what anyone says, they'll do what they do regardless.

 

Steele could at least make the "performers" list, as many in that category got in despite their not really being what many would consider "rock'n'roll" performers. As to that "preservation" thing, many are inductees posthumously(Bill Haley, Gene Vincent, Buddy Holly, Eddie Cochran, Elvis, Hendrix etc.) meaning their "preservation" days ended almost 60 years ago. But of course, their influence was paramount.

 

And who's to say that Steele didn't influence many of the BRITISH inductees? Now, I'm not PRESSING that Steele get inducted or otherwise pleading a case, just using him as an example.....

 

And there are different categories to this. "performers", "Non-performers"(now called the "Ahmet Ertegun awards") And "Early Influences"( in which HOWLIN' WOLF was a '91 inductee) And did somebody mention STEVE MILLER? Well, he got in LAST year.

Whitefang

[d halfnote]

W/all truly due respect, Tommy Steele simply doesn't rate.

The only actual Brit influences on R&R before the Beatles were the Shadows & Johnny Kidd & the Pirates.

Call back when you find any citation of TS as an influence on any Brit rocker.

Til the let's move on....

[whitefang]

It would mostly be a matter of opinion, and finding "citations" over something purely speculative is ridiculous.

 

And it would be my opinion that Steele "rates" above earlier inductees as far as "rock'n'roll" music goes. Like:

DUSTY SPRINGFIELD ( 1999)

MADONNA (2008)

ABBA (2010)

RANDY NEWMAN (2013)

JOAN BAEZ (2017)

 

All fine performers in their quarters, but not exactly any of who I think of when I think of Rock'n'Roll. And there are others probably LESS deserving than the one's I've just mentioned, but they're in, so it seems that what EITHER of us have to say about any of it is worth two dead flies.

Whitefang

[d halfnote]

...finding "citations" over something purely speculative is ridiculous.

No, it would be a way to demonstrate he had any influence on the development of Brit rock.

We know he had none in the USA since no one here heard of him til the read a few books abt the Beatles where he may've been mentioned as an example of the typical English attempt at rock.

 

As should be obvious by now, all that "Well, so & so who I don't think is legit" is pointless, as is an opinion lacking any more justification than, "Well, that's what I think & I don't need to show you any badges !".

[Larryz]

From what I'm reading in this Wiki article, I would say that Tommy Steele had a major influence on Brit rock and roll:

 

"Tommy Steele

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Tommy Steele performing in Stockholm in 1957

Background information

Birth name

Thomas William Hicks

Born

17 December 1936 (age 80)

Bermondsey, London, England

Genres

Rock and roll, skiffle

Occupation(s)

Singer, actor

Instruments

Guitar, banjo

Years active

1956present

Labels

Decca, Columbia, RCA Victor

Associated acts

The Steelmen

 

Tommy Steele OBE (born Thomas William Hicks, 17 December 1936) is an English entertainer, regarded as Britain's first teen idol and rock and roll star.[1][2] He reached number one with "Singing the Blues" in 1957, and The Tommy Steele Story was the first album by a UK act to reach number one.

Steele's film credits include Half a Sixpence, The Happiest Millionaire and Finian's Rainbow, and he has made many stage tours in the UK. He is also a songwriter, author and sculptor. His claim to have shown Elvis Presley around London has been challenged by more than one source.

In 2012, Steele was among the British cultural icons selected by artist Sir Peter Blake to appear in a new version of his most famous artwork the Beatles' Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band album cover to celebrate the British cultural figures of the last six decades.[3]

 

 

Biography

 

Singer

Steele worked in various jobs, including a brief period as a merchant seaman. He was not eligible for national service because, at eighteen years old, he was diagnosed with cardiomyopathy.[4] In his autobiography, Bermondsey Boy: Memories of a Forgotten World, he reports that he failed the medical because he had flat feet. Whenever not working, he played guitar and banjo and sang in two coffee houses in Soho, the 2i's Coffee Bar and the Cat's Whisker, both as a solo performer and with Wally Whyton's Vipers Skiffle Group.

When a ship Steele was serving on docked in Norfolk, Virginia, USA, he heard Buddy Holly and fell in love with rock and roll, turning his back on the British skiffle craze. He was discovered by freelance photographer John Kennedy, who believed Steele could be Britain's answer to Elvis Presley. Later co-manager Larry Parnes was incorrectly credited with creating the stage name 'Tommy Steele'. It was Steele who adapted the surname of his Scandinavian paternal grandfather, Thomas Stil-Hicks (pronounced Steel-Hicks), adding another E to the spelling.[5]

Steele became famous in the UK as the frontman for a rock and roll band, the Steelmen, after their first single, "Rock With the Caveman", reached number 13 in the UK Singles Chart in 1956. Steele and other British singers would pick known hit records from the United States, record their cover versions of these songs, and release them in the UK before the American versions could enter the charts. Most of Steele's 1950s recordings were covers of American hits, such as "Singing the Blues" and "Knee Deep in the Blues". Although Steele never proved a serious threat to Presley's popularity in the UK, he did well on the 1950s UK chart and "Singing the Blues" got to Number 1 in the UK before Presley did so.[1] Guy Mitchell was number 1 with "Singing the Blues" on 4 January 1957 and Tommy Steele on 11 January 1957. Steele's 1957 album, The Tommy Steele Story, was the first by a UK-based act to reach No. 1 in the UK.[1]

Only four months after his first chart presence, he was filming his life story.[1] To do so, Steele and his songwriting collaborators, Lionel Bart and Mike Pratt, wrote twelve songs in seven days.[6] His first three single releases were issued at a rate of one every three weeks.[7] In 1957 Steele bought a four-bedroomed house in South London for his parents.[8] In August 1959, Steele undertook a three-day concert visit to Moscow.[9]

In late 2009 his greatest hits collection, The Very Best of Tommy Steele, reached the Top 40 in the UK Albums Chart. This was the first UK chart entry, of any kind, that Steele had enjoyed for over 48 years.[10]"

 

I like the part where he and other Brit singers brought American rock roll songs to the UK charts before the US originals were played over there...He was considered a rock and roll teen idol in the UK since 1956 and was one of the 1st to present our R&R over there...He more than likely influenced many A Brit rocker, although it would probably be hard to locate their testimonials...It's funny that his first rock and roll cover that hit number 1 in the UK in 1957, was actually a country song by Marty Robbins. Maybe that's why they call it rockabilly...

[whitefang]

Y'know, I always WONDERED how and when someone came up with that label.

 

But enough about Steele. Except I do remember a few stations 'round here playing one of his tunes WAY back in the "day". At any rate, the whole idea was in mentioning and driving the point that there are many who might deserve mention in the HOF that never get consideration, as opposed to many that DO get in that many feel shouldn't have. And incidentally LARRY:

 

After finding an image of Steele from that clip and taking a magnifying glass look, it would seem that guitar he's playing is a HOFNER. Probably and old(now) Committee model. '56 model....

Whitefang