theory question, cadence

[TaurusT]

Brushing up theory here.

 

V-vi is a decept. cadence (DC)

But what if you do a progression such

V7-i-V7-I first version

In other words,

 

B7-Em-B7-Emajor/G# in the bass.

 

Is that still a DC, or is that considered a parallel modulation? (a change from minor to major over the same tonic). Or is it both?

 

How about (in the key of C as the I-chord)

 

G/B in the bass -> Am/C in the bass.

Is that a deceptive cadence or something else?

[MuzikTeechur]

A deceptive cadence is when the listener is expecting V-I and instead gets V-vi. It then has to resolve to V-I, unless you go somewhere else with it (modulation, stay in the relative minor, etc.). When I demonstrate a DC to my students this is always what I use.

 

HOWEVER:

The strict definition of a DC is a cadence where the listener would expect a V-I but instead the progression goes somewhere (anywhere) else, so I guess your alternative examples could all be considered DC.

[TaurusT]

Thanks for the quick reply.

 

According to those theories, how about this one then?

 

LH: D

RH: G-B-D

 

moving into:

 

LH: E

RH: G-C-E

 

On the surface it looks like a normal V-I, but because the bass is different (LH) in both the V and the I, and the top note is NOT the tonic in the I, should this then be considered an imperf. cad. or a deceptive cadence? Or both?

[MathOfInsects]

I believe you call that an inverted cadence.

 

[Jazz+]

Another name I like for DC is evaded resolution or the "surprise" chord.

 

I recommend avoiding thinking in terms that inversions somehow change chord progression functions. That could be stifling and unnecessary worries.

[I-missRichardTee]

Google a book ( in two volumes that I do not quite follow.. but I think the author who is borrowing from a theory genius Schenker, is on to something. But this is advanced stuff )

Structural Hearing by Felix Salzer

I bought them decades ago.. never fully got it... maybe someone here did?

It would say that not all V chords function the same way.

[MathOfInsects]

Why do you guys have the same avatar?

[MurMan]

... never fully got it... maybe someone here did?

I'm sure that Dave Horne would be happy to explain it.

[JB Sherry]

Before you can discuss what a Deceptive Cadence is, you need to define what a Cadence is. It's not just any progression of V to I.

 

dictionary.onmusic.org defines a Cadence as: "A stylized close in music which divides the music into periods or brings it to a full conclusion."

 

A period is a musical sentence. So, you can't define a cadence just by looking at the chords. You need to look at the harmony in the context of the melodic material to see if it's ending a phrase or a section, and if it feels like a full conclusion.

 

Your example with v/ii moving to I/iii doesn't sound like a conclusion at all, in the context of Late 18th century/Early 19th century harmony, whence these terms came about.

 

Likewise, a deceptive cadence should be considered in context. A Deceptive Cadence is when a a musical period feels like it's coming to a conclusion and then the harmony slips from the V to something unexpected, so that you don't get the sense of resolution that you expected.

 

For me, the interesting part of musical analysis is how the composer takes smaller pieces and builds them into a larger structure that balance s expected patterns with surprise in a pleasing ( or hopefully amazing ) way. Simply analyzing the chord progressions without context of the phrase structure and larger structures of the music, which includes the motivic/melodic development, is like taking Shakespeare and labeling the nouns, verbs, subjects and predicates. It's ALWAYS about context.

[MathOfInsects]

Your example with v/ii moving to I/iii doesn't sound like a conclusion at all, in the context of Late 18th century/Early 19th century harmony, whence these terms came about.

 

Again, I think it's referred to (even back then) as an "inverted cadence."

[Jazz+]

Yes, an "inverted cadence"

[El Lobo]

An inverted cadence sounds like something you should see a doctor for.

 

A sax player I know uses the word "cadence" frequently. I thought it was another word for chord changes or progression. It makes sense that it means the chord changes that form the close of a musical phrase or the resolution of a chord progression. Thanks for the musical edjimication.