Dancin' Days sound

[richforman]

Just wondering if anyone can suggest how to program a patch that sounds like the synth on Led Zeppelin's "Dancin' Days" on a VR-09. What preset patch might you start with?, probably something from the Lead Synth or Pad bank?, and what tweaks would bring it close to that? Thanks!

[WesG]

Be careful with the synth leads, some of them are monophonic.

 

I would start with a transistor organ..

 

Wes

[richforman]

Interesting, didn't think of that (the transistor organ). Is there no menu option to switch a sound from monophonic to polyphonic within a registration? If not, that stinks, does limit one's starting points as far as the Lead Synth patches. A few of them are offered up in poly variations. Anyway, thanks for the response Wes, any other suggestions?

[nickd]

Farfisa VIP-255 apparently:

http://www.led-zeppelin.org/studio-and-live-gear/81-reference/studio-and-live-gear/john-paul-jones-gear/935-farfisa-vip-255

 

I think the trick is more in getting the pitch changes right, rather than the sound itself... this site is interesting:

http://www.combo-organ.com/Farfisa/VIP/

 

Seems it's a pre-programmed feature that slides each note upwards to hit the correct pitch. Presumably the VR-09 can do this? (I'm not familiar with it, but I know other Roland keyboards had some kind of a pitch offset feature to do this).

[richforman]

Fascinating, thanks for chiming in Nick. I'm pretty clueless on programming, the extent of my technique is generally to select a preset and just try tweaking the amplitude ADSR and cutoff filter/resonance to get closer to what I need; so if anyone would care to educate me on how (if there's a way) to achieve that effect on my VR-09 I'd be very grateful.

[synthizen2]

Seems it's a pre-programmed feature that slides each note upwards to hit the correct pitch. Presumably the VR-09 can do this? (I'm not familiar with it, but I know other Roland keyboards had some kind of a pitch offset feature to do this).

 

Hmmmm... sounds like a familiar old feature on Korg DW-8000 and DSS-1 synths from back in the 80s. They called it "Autobend". You could program it to slide up OR down to the destination pitch, by X amount of time. However, any synth that lets you route an ADSR to pitch, or has a ramp generator routed to pitch, should be able to do this.

[Baldwin Funster]

You can manually get that sound with the pitch wheel. I don't think you'll ever get portamento to do that because it goes up and down on the same sustained chord. It'd be easier just to do it with the wheel than try to program something. JPJ must have been using the Slalom feature on the farfisa.

[richforman]

Thanks for chiming in Baldwin. That's exactly what I was thinking, in fact, I don't even know if I'll even be able to do it with the pitch wheel because simultaneous notes would need to travel different amounts, like I'd need to "bend" from a major third up to a minor third and back down. (For instance, in the verse, I believe the first chord is C, and my part would be a quick E and G, "bent" up to F and A, and back down.) So I think I'll have to settle for just simulating the effect the best I can but playing all the notes manually without being able to exploit bending or glide. Still I'm working on how to at least get close the basic timbre.

[Lindaru]

I seem to recall back when I had the Arp Omni that there was a way you could tweak the attack and decay (decay for the originating note so that it would slowly blend into the attack of the bent note) and by letting off the originating note just as you were depressing the bent note, it would give that effect.

 

It has been 30 years, but I can kind of see myself doing that. Sort of using the attack and decay as a "phase in and phase out" type effect?

 

Hope this makes sense. Not sure how it works on what you are using.

 

 

[Baldwin Funster]

I briefly checked YouTube for a live version. Nothing with any keys in dancing days live. Not even a couple of various page plant reunions.

[richforman]

Thanks again to all for the help. I spent some time working on this this morning, and I came up with something that I think the Zeppelin tribute band that just hired me for some gigs, will really like. The key was what you guys told me which I never would have realized, to start with a transistor organ sound rather than any kind of synth patch; then I just programmed zones for almost each individual note with some of them set to bend a half-step and others a whole-step, to make the chords work out (you can't see my left hand doing the pitch bend in the video). (The band also asked me to add that little guitar lick you'll see me throwing in during the intro section) Here, I'll even share a little demo I made of my results, thanks again, this kind of information sharing is what almost makes this whole internet thing worthwhile!

 

[Baldwin Funster]

Sounds good. I still wonder how JPJ did it. I'm sure it was a farfisa with a knee lever or slolam pitch feature. The different intervals thing has me stumped though.

[eric]

Nice work!

[richforman]

Thanks for the compliment Eric, 'ppreciate it. Have a good weekend of gigs all!

[Baldwin Funster]

This seems to work . Set your wheel for an octave up and down. The octave up is the range you are going to bend up to . If you do it right you are always starting just a few semitones below the end of the wheels range never releasing to the middle point. This is like a manual portimento. It's a feel thing . Then just play your C to F "claw shape" pushing the wheel in the rhythmic time. This sounds real close to me and given what JPJ had to work with it makes sense. A lot easier than setting up those zones although that sounded good.

[Phil Aiken]

I own the Farfisa in question. The feature is labeled "Syntheslalom" and has a picture of a skier next to it. There are sliders for amount, and time. When you hit notes, it will bend up to the target note from the distance and at the speed specified. It can be set to retrigger when a new note is hit, or not. Were I not so swamped I'd post a picture and some sound bites......