Anybody using ROLI Rise or McMillen K-Board Pro or plan to?

[Tusker]

Our community always has a number of people exploring the bleeding edge. Anybody have plans to incorporate one of these or something similar into your rig? Please share your intentions or experiences. Thanks!

 

Roli Rise:

[video:youtube]zPbj9e-Ys3s

 

Keith McMillen K-Board Pro 4:

[video:youtube]01vQxUa1Jwo

[iluvchiclets]

Well, the cost of the Roli Seaboard makes it prohibitive for me, so I doubt I will ever own one.

 

As far as a playing experience, it's much like a nicely layed-out analog synthesizer. I have played both the larger and smaller version. Two hours could pass as you are taken in directions you never intended as you explore hidden musical gems! It's an incredibly searching and evolving experience simply because of the format. I love instruments that do that to me - take me where I've never been before.

 

If I had a lot of disposable income, it would be a fun instrument to have. My brief experiences with it lead me to believe it would be less useful in a band context. (if that makes sense)

[johnchop]

Have had a Rise for a bit now.

 

I like it for bass and lead parts. One more octave would be really welcome. I don't know that I'd go for the new 49-key model, as it's not something I like playing chords on.

 

Some irritations:

 

- The Rise "dashboard" software (control manager) software does not allow you to save configuration presets, which is crazy. Sometimes you want to capture certain MIDI CC configurations and response curves, and you can't save and recall them. What? (Never mind that you can't save config presets to the hardware itself.)

 

- The response curves are not as customizable as I'd like.

 

 

-John

 

 

 

[Markyboard]

The Rise was one of the most enjoyable devices I explored at NAMM. Enough so that I was trying to figure out where I could place one in my room. Ideally I'd like the 49 "key" version although I agree John, I would not be using it for chords but would still use 2 hands on it. Also your noted irritations are of concern to me as well. Thanks for sharing those.

[MathOfInsects]

I find substantial hand-fatigue with the Rise. I played the K-Board at NAMM yesterday and thought it might represent a bit of a step up in this area, but I still can't imagine ever playing one in a live context for extended periods of time. At the point that you're working in three axes, I think I'd prefer a tablet style interface, rather than being stuck with the keyshapes (which is where the fatigue comes from).

[GovernorSilver]

As a multi-instrumentalist/non-serious pianist I'm mulling over Artiphon vs. Expressive E Touche as the next controller to buy.

 

I could use the Artiphon for guitarist or violinist oriented polyphonic note entry. It responds to finger vibrato and slides.

 

OTOH, the Touche, while being more of an add-on controller to use with conventional keyboard, has CV connectivity (in addition to USB and MIDI DIN) and appears to be incredibly sensitive in its own right.

 

[video:youtube]

[Tusker]

I find substantial hand-fatigue with the Rise.

 

I understand. I've noticed some hand tension when using plain old aftertouch, and have wondered about the holy grail of having ten ( for our ten fingers) concurrent notes with detailed control .... is that an unreachable goal from a purely human perspective?

 

Some irritations:

 

- The Rise "dashboard" software (control manager) software does not allow you to save configuration presets, which is crazy. Sometimes you want to capture certain MIDI CC configurations and response curves, and you can't save and recall them. What? (Never mind that you can't save config presets to the hardware itself.)

 

- The response curves are not as customizable as I'd like.

 

 

-John

 

Yes, these are concerns for me also John.

 

It makes perfect sense that you are enjoying the extra control of the Rise with fewer notes.

 

Do you mind my asking if there are particular variables (strike, press, glide, slide, lift) where you sense the need for more customization of response?

[Tusker]

OTOH, the Touche, while being more of an add-on controller to use with conventional keyboard, has CV connectivity (in addition to USB and MIDI DIN) and appears to be incredibly sensitive in its own right.

 

Wow. Thanks you for sharing this. It has totally made my day! Since seeing your post, I've been scouring the internet to find out more about it. I would love to learn that the CV is scalable from within the touche. I love the idea of an advanced Ondes Martenot style button (on steroids!) with analog. Mind boggling!

 

 

For those who are following this thread and are interested in learning more about the Ondes here is an introduction to this beautiful instrument:

 

[video:youtube]Yy9UBjrUjwo

 

[Krakit]

I wouldn't refuse it as a gift, but for what they cost, what I'd use them for and just how often I would put them to such use, I think they're not for me.

 

Carl

[MorayM]

I'd love to get the Rise 49 and possibly the Touche as well, trouble is I've got no money, no space and no time

[GovernorSilver]

Yeah I was thinking Ondes too as I watched videos on the Touche.

 

A side effect of watching the vids for me is reigniting my interest in the DSI Pro 2, still the only DSI synth to date with full-on CV jacks, because he had the Touche connected to it by CV. It also has the SEM-inspired filter.

[analogholic]

As a multi-instrumentalist/non-serious pianist I'm mulling over Artiphon vs. Expressive E Touche as the next controller to buy.

 

I could use the Artiphon for guitarist or violinist oriented polyphonic note entry. It responds to finger vibrato and slides.

 

OTOH, the Touche, while being more of an add-on controller to use with conventional keyboard, has CV connectivity (in addition to USB and MIDI DIN) and appears to be incredibly sensitive in its own right.

 

[video:youtube]

 

Really cool thing, but 500 bucks??? Ouch!!!

[johnchop]

Do you mind my asking if there are particular variables (strike, press, glide, slide, lift) where you sense the need for more customization of response?

 

Ask away!

 

"Lift" (release velocity) is usually not a concern, because not many sounds are programmed to take advantage of it.

 

I think I'd like to see gentler slopes for "Strike" (velocity), "Press" (aftertouch), and "Glide" (pitchbend). I've had a hard time getting the response in a sweet spot. I find it really hard to find a middle ground between "nothing" and "full on". I imagine I could mitigate this with some patch tweaking though.

 

 

"Slide" works quite well out of the box and feels natural.

 

I just love how Pianoteq handles curve setting. I wish the Rise implemented something akin to this.

 

 

-John

 

[analogholic]

Do you mind my asking if there are particular variables (strike, press, glide, slide, lift) where you sense the need for more customization of response?

 

Ask away!

 

"Lift" (release velocity) is usually not a concern, because not many sounds are programmed to take advantage of it.

 

I think I'd like to see gentler slopes for "Strike" (velocity), "Press" (aftertouch), and "Glide" (pitchbend). I've had a hard time getting the response in a sweet spot. I find it really hard to find a middle ground between "nothing" and "full on". I imagine I could mitigate this with some patch tweaking though.

 

 

"Slide" works quite well out of the box and feels natural.

 

I just love how Pianoteq handles curve setting. I wish the Rise implemented something akin to this.

 

 

-John

 

Hmmm...a bit dissapointing to read this as I seriously was considering one..

 

Did you contact Roli about these issues?

[Markyboard]

Hey John- if possible monitor the response of those controllers with MidiOx or the Mac equivalent. That will give you the best indication of how well the Rise implimented these functions independent of the receiving synth. Thanks.

[GovernorSilver]

 

Really cool thing, but 500 bucks??? Ouch!!!

 

More like $2300 for me (including cost of DSI Pro 2)

[johnchop]

Hey John- if possible monitor the response of those controllers with MidiOx or the Mac equivalent. That will give you the best indication of how well the Rise mplimented these functions independent of the receiving synth. Thanks.

 

Yep, will do, BEFORE nudging Roli, because science!

[johnchop]

Just to follow up: I monitored the Rise's messages using MIDI monitor (OS X), and found that, yes, it was difficult to trigger consistent velocities playing at what felt like a mf touch. I pinged Roli support for suggestions and urged them to consider more customizable curves.

 

FWIW Pressure was easy to control, and ramped between 1 and 127 smooth as silk. Glide (sliding back in the keys) also responded well, although didn't seem to hit 127 consistently at the top of the keywave.

 

More when I know it.

[Tusker]

Just to follow up: I monitored the Rise's messages using MIDI monitor (OS X), and found that, yes, it was difficult to trigger consistent velocities playing at what felt like a mf touch. I pinged Roli support for suggestions and urged them to consider more customizable curves.

 

FWIW Pressure was easy to control, and ramped between 1 and 127 smooth as silk. Glide (sliding back in the keys) also responded well, although didn't seem to hit 127 consistently at the top of the keywave.

 

More when I know it.

 

 

Great to know. I imagine pianists among us require a certain amount and type of tactile feedback, making velocity (partially) a physical problem which goes beyond what can be accomplished with sensor curves and the smart material.

 

More when I know it.

Thanks.

[analogholic]

[Markyboard]

 

More when I know it.

 

Good stuff so far - thank you John!

[David Emm]

Am I far wrong to compare things like the Roli line to cellos? Even with good keyboard skills, the learning curve towards real fluency can be steep when the change of approach is so radical. Rudess respected, I still see the thing as a legato specialist, more Subotnick or New Age than "rockin'." Its fairly rare that anyone notable melds with some boutique oddity and draws a crowd with virtuoso playing. Roli will have fully arrived the day it catches on enough to have the house band playing two of them at the Grammys.

[johnchop]

David, yes I think that's true to some extent.

 

I think I need to keep in mind my own initial impressions: it's not a "universal" keyboard controller, but driving a sound that's programmed well, it allows some more organic sense of control than you'd get with aftertouch and pitch & mod sticks/paddles/wheels. So, yeah, probably not something you're hauling to the bar gig.

 

I'm keeping mine regardless!

 

 

FYI heard back from Roli support. They suggested a firmware update, but I'm already on the latest version. I took the opportunity to request more flexibility with response curves (more exponential curves than simply linear or S-curve) as well as the ability to save device configuration profiles. They've been pretty responsive with updates, so here's hoping.

 

 

 

 

[Redknife]

The roli rise 49 might be my 2016 namm GAS item. I think it could be used in a number of live settings (admittedly, the Grammy's haven't been calling lately). I downloaded the iPad app "Noise". Obviously, the app has different tactile prompts and size, but I think one challenge with all of the sliding and moving is that the muscle groups are different than a standard keyboard. Fingering also changes. I can feel the effects of the lateral forces in my fingers. Have you noticed this in use of the Roli John?

[Jimmy Keys]

I have the rise 25. It's pretty cool, but I definitely get hand fatigue playing this thing. I'm trying to decide if I should keep it. I also have a 49 on order. I too agree that it is absolutely crazy that you can't save your configuration settings and that it doesn't have any presets for config.

 

Johnchop,

Do you have any trouble with bluetooth le on this thing? When connecting to my MacBook and iPad I loose the connection from time to time and a lot of times the macbook won't recognize it when setting it up as bluetooth midi. I noticed in the NAMM video the Jordan and the crew are connected via USB, which I don't blame them, but if they really believed that bluetooth was solid why wouldn't they demo that way?

 

I also noticed that the String samples in the Legato Strings patch are bad, if you hold a note out long enough there is a part in the sample that has bad cracking audio. It's evident on both the equator app and the noise app.

 

Overall it's pretty cool, but I was hoping I might be able to incorporate it in a live setting since it's really cool to watch someone playing this thing, but I'm not really sure it fits the bill for live use. Could just be that I'm not all that great on this thing just yet.

[johnchop]

I can feel the effects of the lateral forces in my fingers. Have you noticed this in use of the Roli John?

 

Sure. I don't do a ton of sliding or poly pressure moves on the thing. The key is to adjust the keyboard response so the intended effect is achieved with minimal effort. You could burn out a tendon or two pretty fast if you had to really lean into the thing. That said, I still wish the response curves were customizable beyond the S-curves.

 

 

Do you have any trouble with bluetooth le on this thing?

 

Honestly... haven't tried! I like wires May give it a go later.

 

Could just be that I'm not all that great on this thing just yet.

 

I know the feeling! There is a learning curve.

 

I've only messed around with Equator. It's such a CPU hog on my system, and while some of the sounds are fun to play with, it's not something I feel compelled to get on with.

[johnchop]

Ah the bluetooth connectivity requires Mac OS 10.10.2

 

I'm still on 10.9.5.

 

Not going to upgrade until my DAW forces me to

[ElmerJFudd]

[video:youtube]

 

With an OB6

 

[video:youtube]

[Tusker]

I got on the mailing list with Expressive E some time ago and today they had an update with a link to Touche working with a Matrixbrute. (I'd like to have a seen a larger vocabulary of gestures tbh)

 

Expressive E will be making special presets to work with the Matrix-brute.

 

 

[video:youtube]UEHt7G9w488

[3dog]

I have mounted my QuNexus to my iPad Pro interfaced with SampleTank and find that I practice a lot more as I can be playing in my longe chair with headphones and not bother any one. A brother member put me on to the CME 37 wireless keyboard and that is supposed to be delivered tomorrow. I am looking to sound more like an acoustic guitar or wind instrument and the ability to control other parameters on the key gets me close to the goal. I also play the wind controller but it is very difficult to set up for chords. Most sounds are set up for keyboard and do not respond well or at all to wind contro. I had a ton on iOS and Mac software looking for a good sounding VST for my wind controller. I needed to fit in to a big band sax and trumpet section and I found the sounds using Kontakt and Samplemodling VSTs on my MacBook. Those sounds didn't work when I play with a county jam group so I use a peddle steel sound and a tremolo guitar sound with the wind controller. Worked but I want to play chords so I am learning keyboard and loving the guitar sounds in SampleTank iOS. QuNexus is somewhat limited to two octaves of keys and my hope is that 3 octaves my be perfect for size and weight plus there will be no wires to worry about. All keyboards are a compromise of sorts but the "traditional" keyboard is not going to get me to my goal. I am finding all the sounds I want on IOS so I don't need to use my Mac for keyboard. I use noise canceling Bose ear plugs. Also drows out the TV shows my wife watches. Added bonus!

I was excited by the KBoard Pro under development but it doesn't look as though it will be wireless so I hope the CME 37 will be a better solution for me. It is less expensive but with with a octave less keys. Who knows, maybe some day I can play it on my head like Jordan Rudess.

 

P.S I am the only one in the group that has to log into their instrument in addition to displaying sheet music, get email, scan music, text......(note to self - turn on airplane mode before gig)