SK1 Sustain (Damper) Pedal mafunction

[KeyTone]

I'm having a problem with my sustain damper pedal on my SK1 that I'm hoping there's a solution for. I have a Yamaha FC4A Sustain pedal i'm using on the SK1 as my damper pedal. When pressed, it sustains the note or notes which is great, but if I strike the same note or notes again, they dont sound at all. New notes will sound, but only once, while the pedal is pressed. This is the first Hammond I've owned. Not sure if its a Hammond thing, a Yamaha Pedal problem, or a setting that I need to correct. Any help appreciated. Thanks

[drawback]

Is your sustain pedal plugged in before you start up the Hammond?

[KeyTone]

Yes it is. The fc4a pedal is brand new. I also have a brand new yamaha fc5 that i tried, has the same problem.

[JMcS]

You don't say whether you are using the damper to hold EV, organ or both sounds. On my SK-1 when playing the extra voices that have decay pressing the damper pedal and repeatedly hitting the same key repeatedly plays the same note while the previous keystrikes fade. Playing organ notes with the damper held holds the original keystrike. Since it is an organ, the damper is working like a finger. If one finger is holding a key down, hitting it with a second finger does nothing.

 

What OS version does yours have in it? The earliest OS updates had a fix for a re-damping issue. The first was for a particular piano voice the second one just says operation of re-damper is improved. I don't know if these had anything to do with extra voices re-triggering while the damper is held.

[KeyTone]

I just purchased this SK1 so its all very new to me. My primary board is a Motif ES. Every Organ patch I have on the Motif allows me to hit the same key repeatedly and play the same note while the previous keystrike rings. The previous strikes do not fade as a piano sound does, but it does not prevent additional keystrikes. The SK1 does not mimic that. I believe this is a Hammond unique sustain trait. It is as you described as working like a finger and holds the note. I do wish I could over-ride that though. Is there a patch or a setting that will let he damper act the same on the organ as it does on the extra voices? Thanks for the input!

[KeyMoe]

Keytone - Are you using the latest software version? Early version were a little buggy!

[Sven Golly]

I just purchased this SK1 so its all very new to me. My primary board is a Motif ES. Every Organ patch I have on the Motif allows me to hit the same key repeatedly and play the same note while the previous keystrike rings. The previous strikes do not fade as a piano sound does, but it does not prevent additional keystrikes. The SK1 does not mimic that. I believe this is a Hammond unique sustain trait. It is as you described as working like a finger and holds the note. I do wish I could over-ride that though. Is there a patch or a setting that will let he damper act the same on the organ as it does on the extra voices? Thanks for the input!

 

Okay, what you need to understand is that the Motif does not behave like a Hammond B3 organ does. The SK1 behaves correctly.

 

There is nothing wrong with your sustain pedal(s) (other than your improper use of it with a Hammond sound... stop it!).

 

Do some research on how a Hammond organ works, and learn to play it properly so you sound like you know what you're doing.

 

 

[Analogaddict]

There are occasions in a large rig where you may need to sustain a Hammond sound because your fingers cannot physically be on the keys, other than that there's no place for a sustain pedal with a Hammond sound. It will not add anything but it will probably muddy up your sound and lead to improper technique.

[JMcS]

What Sven Said.

 

However, while I can't see any use in retriggering an already playing note at the exact same volume since it seems to me that it couldn't be heard there is a way to hear something. With Percussion on and Touch (in the Percussion menu) turned off, the percussion ping will be re-triggered with each key press.

[KeyTone]

Like i said, i just got this board and have never been in the elite Hammond club so Easy there Sven. I'm still learning and I agree with your comment for the most part. I think Jmcs's tip will work well for my ask. Thanks for the suggestion.

[MoodyBluesKeys]

Further information on a real B3 (or numerous other Hammond tonewheel instments). Hammond organs do not have any sustain pedal. Having said this, some of the home models did include a circuit that gave a bit of automatic sustain to the pedals, mostly because a 13 note pedalboard on a home instrument cannot be played like the traditional 32 note AGO (American Guild of Organists) pedalboard, on which one uses both feet so as to hit one pedal at the moment one releases another if you want a legato pedal line. The original intent of the Hammond Organ was to emulate a pipe organ - same thing, no sustain pedal.

 

That is the reason for Sven's statement. Just as a note: Even when playing a modern "clonewheel" instrument like the SK1, there are times when sustain is useful, but it is not used frequently like the sustain pedal of an acoustic piano.

 

[Mr. Nightime]

The only reason I will connect a damper pedal to my SK2 is to sustain the "Other" voices.

 

Never had any use for a damper pedal on the Hammond sounds.

 

I'm not sure if you're holding down the damper for organ sounds that the percussion Will trigger. The normal operation of the percussion is it only triggers as the first note, and will not trigger if other notes are still playing.

 

That's always been a serious sticking point for me with the Rompler Organ sounds. Some of the sounds have the percussion on every note, and it sounds horribly unnatural to me.

 

 

[WesG]

How would you even KNOW of the note was being retriggerred or not? A Hammond organ has a completely flat attack.

[icarusi]

The correct way to sustain multiple notes hands-free on a Hammond, is by use of a throwing knife jammed between the keys, close to the chord you intend to sustain.

 

The best 'style' is to choose a key-gap between your fingers. You should also have a suitable block of wood to throw the knife into, when not in use, but firmly fixed within reach, so you can retrieve the knife for the next sustain.

 

[video:youtube]xggFzkyd288

[Sven Golly]

Any Hammond player worth his salt always has a couple of these within easy reach on a gig:

 

http://perfect.perfectimprints1.netdna-cdn.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/270x270/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/b/l/blank-white-matchbooks-20-stem.jpg

[KeyTone]

Love the matchbook comment. I saw a video of Clapton and Billie Preston used that on Have You Ever Loved a Woman. Outstanding. Thanks to all of you for all the comments and tips. Much appreciated and I'm glad to know that I do not have a malfunctioning sustain pedal. Over and out.

[KeyTone]

Insane video of Emerson

[JeffLearman]

I just purchased this SK1 so its all very new to me. My primary board is a Motif ES. Every Organ patch I have on the Motif allows me to hit the same key repeatedly and play the same note while the previous keystrike rings. The previous strikes do not fade as a piano sound does, but it does not prevent additional keystrikes. The SK1 does not mimic that. I believe this is a Hammond unique sustain trait. It is as you described as working like a finger and holds the note. I do wish I could over-ride that though. Is there a patch or a setting that will let he damper act the same on the organ as it does on the extra voices? Thanks for the input!

 

Okay, what you need to understand is that the Motif does not behave like a Hammond B3 organ does. The SK1 behaves correctly.

 

There is nothing wrong with your sustain pedal(s) (other than your improper use of it with a Hammond sound... stop it!).

 

Do some research on how a Hammond organ works, and learn to play it properly so you sound like you know what you're doing.

 

Bingo. This isn't an issue of how the SK works so much as an issue of how a Hammond works.

 

First, the only things other than the note that "triggers" when you press a key on a Hammond are keyclick and percussion.

 

On a Hammond, percussion doesn't retrigger on any notes, whenever you're holding a key down. That is, if you play legato (pressing the next note before releasing the previous), percussion doesn't retrigger.

 

Most ROMplers get this wrong, since the percussion is usually baked into the sample. The result is a sound that's painful to the ears of those of us who are used to how it's supposed to work.

 

So, basically what we're saying is "What you want? Don't want that! Because, ICK!"

 

Not a big help, I realize, but that's how it is. There may be some setting on some clonewheels to trigger percussion on all notes, but it wouldn't be a particularly popular feature. Even with that feature, it's not clear whether it should retrigger on the same note with sustain pedal pressed.

 

Frankly, most of us also have little or no use for sustain pedal when playing Hammond. I generally have mine set up so that it changes Leslie speed. No doubt there are musical uses for it, though. It's not authentic, but musical goals are more important than authenticity.

[Mr. Nightime]

If you want the percussion to trigger on every note, play more staccato. Lift off the previous note completely before playing the next.

 

In Other Words - use Technique

 

 

[Mr. Nightime]

Any Hammond player worth his salt always has a couple of these within easy reach on a gig:

 

http://perfect.perfectimprints1.netdna-cdn.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/270x270/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/b/l/blank-white-matchbooks-20-stem.jpg

 

In a pinch I've employed unused swizzle sticks for the same effect

[JeffLearman]

If you want the percussion to trigger on every note, play more staccato. Lift off the previous note completely before playing the next.

 

In Other Words - use Technique

 

but, not with the sustain pedal down, on clonewheels that honor the sustain pedal as sustain. Clearly, he's not going for authentic Hammond playing here. Sometimes I think we get our undies in a bit too much of a bundle over authenticity!

[Sven Golly]

Sometimes I think we get our undies in a bit too much of a bundle over authenticity!

 

I get my undies in a bunch over people that buy instruments that emulate an instrument properly, and suggest that it's a fault.

[Mr. Nightime]

If you want the percussion to trigger on every note, play more staccato. Lift off the previous note completely before playing the next.

 

In Other Words - use Technique

 

but, not with the sustain pedal down, on clonewheels that honor the sustain pedal as sustain. Clearly, he's not going for authentic Hammond playing here. Sometimes I think we get our undies in a bit too much of a bundle over authenticity!

 

So THAT'S why I'm chafing......