Rockitman Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I have been playing keys in this band now for 6 months. We are taking off like wildfire after winning a "battle of the bands" contest a couple of months ago, our first live performance to boot! So we are slowly building up our repertoire, and we play mostly classic rock songs from 70's, 80's, and now moving into some 90's pieces. I am now finding it very tough to pull out all the necessary sounds from my one board, a Roland RD700sx, with the Ultimate Keys SRX add on module. We really like The Cars, and am having fits trying to recreate all of the sounds Hawkes produced. Now adding other bands' songs from 80's and there's just so much unique synth sounds, I am thinking I need a second board. Can anyone recommend the ideal board for me that would have alot of synth samples? I am not versed in knob tweaking, would rather just deal with some presets if I can get away with it. Let's just say money is no object right now, but I am a bargain shopper! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Emm Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Since you mention The Cars, an early stop would be the Novation UltraNova at about $600. Its all about being a synth and *not* a replacement piano. Its well-packed with presets. The Yamaha MX61 is also mentioned favorably and runs about $700. The new Roland FA-06 workstation is $1200 and seems well-regarded so far. If you're brave, "rich" and really serious, look at the Prophet-08 ($2k) and the Jupiter-50 ($2k.) If your synth needs are really basic, the Roland VR-09 Combo ($899) might do the job. It sports a nice 3-part synth like the GAIA's on top of the piano, organ, drum and oddball sections. Great live effects section on it, too. The thing is... you'll have to explore each a bit to see if they fit your synth needs. One way and then another, these all have just enough knobs for you to keep your tweaking to a minimum. EVERYTHING has a user's group, too, from which you can locate alternate patches, which is a great way to work up a couple of custom sets that are your bread and butter. If you can get to a music store that has even 3/4 of diddly in the keyboard section, play and feel a few and get an idea of where the lines are drawn in sound and build quality. Its utterly subjective, so all we can do is point here and there, but if you're already at that level, try to move a little more upscale if you can. A Jupiter-50 is a real powerhouse for live work and could end up replacing the rest of your rig. The first step in woodshedding is reading up on all this stuff, but you'll never regret going for a better instrument that sticks to your ribs for 15 years where a starter synth may offer less after a while. Buy a little further up the line and budget for a good ATA case. I went that route and my first workstation still works at 19 years of age. That's like a 30-year-old dog that can still hunt. "Well, the 60s were fun, but now I'm payin' for it." ~ Stan Lee, "Ant-Man and the Wasp" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockitman Posted June 23, 2014 Author Share Posted June 23, 2014 The UltraNova looks pretty keen. If I got this, how do I connect it to my Roland? I would only want one Out to the PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Emm Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 At this point, you'll need a mixer. I have two Mackies that have been dependably tough and don't impart any color to the output, to my ear. The very smallest model is just $100, but it'd be wise to get at least an 8-channel version for the sake of having some growing room. They make great keyboard submixers. You can feed the house whatever suits you from there. Unless the RD has an input for an outside keyboard, that's the next step. Since you don't want to fight with the knobs, I doubt you'd be keen on zoning the Ultranova from the RD anyway, so route it into the mixer separately. It'll keep it more straightforward. Take some time to consider your stand arrangement so you can keep the synth and mixer within easy reach. If the RD is flat on top, you're already set. Add some velcro to your accessory list. Season and bake. Serves eight normal people or three Cajuns. "Well, the 60s were fun, but now I'm payin' for it." ~ Stan Lee, "Ant-Man and the Wasp" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I know you sid you'd rather have samples, but for the stuff you're talking about, you would really benefit from having a VA and learning some synthesis basics. You dont necessarily need a mixer - you can get a DI with summing inputs and use the master volumes to mix. Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainUnderpant Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Rockitman, May I play "Devils Advocate" in suggesting "Virtual Instruments" instead of a 2nd board? When I joined a "Rush Tribute Band" about 8 months ago, I needed to nail the right sounds and as a stop gap I purchased a Korg X50 to compliment my Yamaha S90XS. While this may have worked, if I had put in enough time to learn my two boards, I chose to go the route of a Computer and VST's. The main reason I did this was because then I own, or can own, the "Entire World" of sounds. If I don't have the right sound. I can just add a new VST for usually around $50 to $200. The downside has been having to learn this virtual instrument world and the assorted hardware required. Fortunately I am a little bit of a computer Wonk, and tenacious. This may not be the best solution for you, but there probably isn't a sound that I can't create now. Short of my abilities. Just throwing out another possibility. Yamaha S90XS, Studiologic VMk-161 Organ Small/powerful (i7, 32GB, M.2 SSD) PC controlled by 10" Touch Screen Cantabile, Ravenscroft 275, Keyscape, OPX-II, Omnisphere 2, VB3, Chris Hein Horns, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockitman Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 At this point, you'll need a mixer. I have two Mackies that have been dependably tough and don't impart any color to the output, to my ear. The very smallest model is just $100, but it'd be wise to get at least an 8-channel version for the sake of having some growing room. They make great keyboard submixers. You can feed the house whatever suits you from there. Unless the RD has an input for an outside keyboard, that's the next step. Since you don't want to fight with the knobs, I doubt you'd be keen on zoning the Ultranova from the RD anyway, so route it into the mixer separately. It'll keep it more straightforward. Take some time to consider your stand arrangement so you can keep the synth and mixer within easy reach. If the RD is flat on top, you're already set. Add some velcro to your accessory list. Season and bake. Serves eight normal people or three Cajuns. My Roland has Midi In/Out/Through. Is that what I could use to connect the two? I have no idea what you mean when you say "zoning the UltraNova from the RD". I was looking at those double stands where the RD would be flat on the lower tier and the ultranova would be on the tilted top tier. Would that be the best way to go? I do have a small Behringer Eurorack UB1002 mixer if I need to use that as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockitman Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 I know you sid you'd rather have samples, but for the stuff you're talking about, you would really benefit from having a VA and learning some synthesis basics. You dont necessarily need a mixer - you can get a DI with summing inputs and use the master volumes to mix. Ok, I have a lot to learn. What is a VA? What is a DI? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockitman Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 Rockitman, May I play "Devils Advocate" in suggesting "Virtual Instruments" instead of a 2nd board? When I joined a "Rush Tribute Band" about 8 months ago, I needed to nail the right sounds and as a stop gap I purchased a Korg X50 to compliment my Yamaha S90XS. While this may have worked, if I had put in enough time to learn my two boards, I chose to go the route of a Computer and VST's. The main reason I did this was because then I own, or can own, the "Entire World" of sounds. If I don't have the right sound. I can just add a new VST for usually around $50 to $200. The downside has been having to learn this virtual instrument world and the assorted hardware required. Fortunately I am a little bit of a computer Wonk, and tenacious. This may not be the best solution for you, but there probably isn't a sound that I can't create now. Short of my abilities. Just throwing out another possibility. Ok,,what is a VST? How do I add new sounds to my ROland with a Computer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamanczarek Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Take a look at the Casio XW-P1. Covers all kinds of Synth sounds and a lot more at a reasonable price. Also has inputs for other instruments and sound sources so you probably wouldn't need a mixer when used with your Roland keyboard. C3/122, M102A, Vox V301H, Farfisa Compact, Gibson G101, GEM P, RMI 300A, Piano Bass, Pianet , Prophet 5 rev. 2, Pro-One, Matrix 12, OB8, Korg MS20, Jupiter 6, Juno 60, PX-5S, Nord Stage 3 Compact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyMary Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 If your Roland has line inputs you can patch the second synth through it. I use this kind of routing in my rig to eliminate a need for a mixer. Stage: MOX6, V-machine, and Roland AX7 Rolls PM351 for IEMs. Home/recording: Roland FP4, a few guitars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 RD700SX does not have a line input. "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmemcse517 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 I know you sid you'd rather have samples, but for the stuff you're talking about, you would really benefit from having a VA and learning some synthesis basics. You dont necessarily need a mixer - you can get a DI with summing inputs and use the master volumes to mix. Ok, I have a lot to learn. What is a VA? What is a DI? VA is Virtual Analog synth, like the Roland Gaia I just ordered. DI refers to Direct Box - it converts a high Z (1/4") connection to a low Z (XLR) connection. http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/whirlwind-imp-2-standard-direct-box I use two of the imp's (stereo) mounted on my pedal board so I can send my keyboard mix to the FOH - Front of House, which is the main PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joegerardi Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Korg Kronos 61 with both volumes of Korg Famous Synth Sounds, freely downloadable here: http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=88149 The programmer specifically went for 80's sounds and lists them from the songs they became identifiable with. Unbelievably well done, they will save you hours creating them on your own. And, to polish my own apple, I was the one that asked him to create the sounds from "Drive." which he did for volume 2. Go listen, there's MP3s of all the sounds. ..Joe Setup: Korg Kronos 61, Roland XV-88, Korg Triton-Rack, Motif-Rack, Korg N1r, Alesis QSR, Roland M-GS64 Yamaha KX-88, KX76, Roland Super-JX, E-Mu Longboard 61, Kawai K1II, Kawai K4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clavjav Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 FWIW I use an MX49 as a top tier board atm, and I'm ONLY using presets, I find them very useable. Plus it's got transpose and octave buttons, plus 4 knobs, so I never have to menu dive for anything. And for what you get it's as cheap as crackers, and the action ain't too bad. RD700NX, Krome 61, Acuna 73 + Mainstage 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffLearman Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 I know you sid you'd rather have samples, but for the stuff you're talking about, you would really benefit from having a VA and learning some synthesis basics. That was my first thought, and Dan is the man who would know for sure. 80's music was deep into trying every possible sound one could get from analog poly synths, because that's what we had, well until the DX7 came along in 1985, and it's going to be hard to find pre-programmed patches for everything you need (though I don't know the Cars stuff in any detail). A virtual analog is a digital imitation of this classic type of synthesizer. A Kronos would cover all the bases, especially ones the RD doesn't: virtual analog (well, the RD covers that a bit but not thoroughly), FM synth (DX7), and hammond organ. Plus you might prefer its piano, and you could play its piano from the RD's keyboard (using MIDI to connect the two -- you'd have a bit of learning and fiddling to get it sorted, but it's worth the effort for the music you're playing to understand MIDI). Unfortunately, it's not cheap. A VSTi is a virtual instrument plugin: software that emulates an instrument. You'd use them on a computer (along with a "VST host", into which they "plug"). You'd connect the RD's MIDI out to a MIDI/USB adaptor cable (unless the SX has built-in MIDI/USB), and play the sounds on the computer from the RD's keyboard (or any MIDI keyboard). You'd have to take the computer along when playing live, of course. Most folks who do this also use an aftermarket audio interface (aka "sound card"), usually USB, which costs say $120 and up, but if your computer's built-in audio is decent, you can use the headphone outputs and an adaptor cable (I did that for years). The software route takes a lot longer to set up, learn to use, assemble your favorites, etc. If you have more time than money and already have a suitable laptop, it's definitely worth considering. Well, even if you have a lot of money. Many great plugins are cheap or free, and even greater ones cost money. It's a big subject. Search this site for lots more info (google "site:forums.musicplayer.com vsti"). Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 The OP should absolutely get some free VSTs now. Not for using out but for learning how synthesis works. It is fun and it will teach a lot of what you need to know for operating hardware. If you want to be methodical you can t start with small single oscillator VST then then load a more complex one and play with it. "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Go to YouTube and look through vstplanet, myvst, or UPROAR24 channel for some of the free synths and get a free vst host and start learn how to create sounds. [video:youtube] [video:youtube] "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Emm Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 >>>> My Roland has Midi In/Out/Through. Is that what I could use to connect the two? I have no idea what you mean when you say "zoning the UltraNova from the RD". You could connect the two via MIDI, but your needs are very live-play oriented and that's not a necessity. The new RD8000 can act as a 4-zone controller for outboard gear, but that requires some mapping time to set up various song layouts. You just need a good synth to compliment your piano. Different goal. Your model of RD doesn't have external inputs anyway. >>>> I was looking at those double stands where the RD would be flat on the lower tier and the ultranova would be on the tilted top tier. Would that be the best way to go? I do have a small Behringer Eurorack UB1002 mixer if I need to use that as well. Two-tiered stands are the most popular overall and the easiest to manage, so yes, start there. I STRONGLY advise trying stands out for bounce. I have an ancient Invisible Support stand that's 100% rock-solid, but many items like x-stands make you feel like you're trying to play while drunk. Some of the others will probably have good suggestions about where to zero in for the best stability. Behringer has seemingly had a bit of spotty quality control recently, so you might still want to buy a more road-worthy mixer. Some things run forever at home, but disintegrate after being hauled around. I can second the DI box suggestion in place of a mixer. With just 2 keyboards to manage, make it easy on yourself. "Well, the 60s were fun, but now I'm payin' for it." ~ Stan Lee, "Ant-Man and the Wasp" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Emm Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 BTW, I think I'd vote a thumbs-down on VSTs at present. You CAN learn plenty that way and get a lot of added sound depth, but you said you preferred to tweak as little as possible. VSTs are all about the tweaking, from that perspective. Its also quite accurate to point out the need for a USB-type audio interface, possibly a better sound card, possibly (and advisedly) an Uninterruptible Power Supply and the associated demands of using a computer in the first place. Focus on your live needs and leave the computer world at home for now. Look into that in your off-stage time. You'll figure out soon enough if you want or even need to go there. "Well, the 60s were fun, but now I'm payin' for it." ~ Stan Lee, "Ant-Man and the Wasp" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wineandkeyz Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 You could add a Yamaha MOX6. It's under $1000 and has A/D inputs, so you could run your RD700 through it. And, as a cheat, you could buy the 80's Pop/Rock Vol 1 & 2 voice libraries and have the sounds for your whole set list already programmed for you -- just gotta convince the band to learn those songs and only those songs. Live: Yamaha S70XS (#1); Roland Jupiter-80; Mackie 1202VLZ4; IEMs or Traynor K4 Home: Hammond SK Pro 73; Moog Minimoog Voyager Electric Blue; Yamaha S70XS (#2); Roland Integra-7; Wurlitzer 200A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 BTW, I think I'd vote a thumbs-down on VSTs at present. You CAN learn plenty that way and get a lot of added sound depth, but you said you preferred to tweak as little as possible. VSTs are all about the tweaking, from that perspective. Its also quite accurate to point out the need for a USB-type audio interface, possibly a better sound card, possibly (and advisedly) an Uninterruptible Power Supply and the associated demands of using a computer in the first place. Focus on your live needs and leave the computer world at home for now. Look into that in your off-stage time. You'll figure out soon enough if you want or even need to go there. Agreed. I in no way meant you should use VSTs with the band but if you do not have a synth now you can get a free VST watch some tutorial videos and start teaching youself how to operate synthesizers using a free VSTi. But life is a time allocation problem. Maybe you don't have the time to learn synthesizers. In the long run if you want to ACCURATELY cover a wide range of material it will be be really handy to know basic synthesis. "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stokely Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 A few years ago I got a second board for exactly the type of sounds you are describing. My Motif (sample-based synth) just didn't have those sounds to my liking. I ended up getting a used Virus b (keyboard version) for $600. Build quality kills most current boards (IMO) and it sounds fantastic. The Virus line is known for doing trance stuff but for rock analog sounds I find it excellent. And one thing that really surprised me--having the dedicated knobs has really helped me be more dynamic in my live performance. I figured I wouldn't touch the knobs as I was used to menus both in hardware and software...boy was I wrong. Meaning, I'll program on-the-fly with all sorts of settings beyond the typical cutoff mapped to mod wheel....and generally you don't have to do a ton of setup work to have this control. It also has a couple of user-defined controls, I've got portamento on one of them and I used the other for various things that are only in the menus (say like distortion). If you need a nice organ (compared to other non-organ boards IMO) strings and just about any other type of sound PLUS decent virtual analog, I also put forward the Kurzweil pc3. It's my main board, and does decent analog...though I don't like it as much as the Virus for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockitman Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 I appreciate all the advice, but everyone of you are talking so far over my head right now , I am just freaking lost. I do not own a laptop , and even if I did, I would not want some kind of live setup where i connect a laptop to my keyboard. I simply want the ability to recreate more synth sounds than are offered on my Roland RD700sx. I recently purchased the SRX007 Ultimate Keys add on module which did give me many more sounds but I am still woefully lacking for the sounds I need to recreate for the songs we are learning. I have a local Guitar Center, but unfortunately, they are really lacking in keyboard gear to test out. I still am lost in how I would connect a new board to my Roland. Somebody mentioned the RD700sx does not have Line In's. I don't even know what a Line In is. It has both XLR and quarter inch outs, as well as the Midi jacks I mentioned before. Currently, I use one of my XLR's for my new EV-ZLX-12P speaker that serves as my own monitor. I also run a quarter inch cable to our PA Mixer. With that said, what is the simplest way to add a new board? Do I need a mixer? I do not understand what this Direct Box somebody else referred to. Is that what I need? Where do I connect it to? If I only had $1000 to buy another board that comes with tons of preset synth sounds, (I don't need all the extra stuff like AP's EP's, strings, organs, etc), just synth stuff, with also the ability to tweak or create new sounds, which board would serve me best? I keep coming back to that Novation Ultranova, but maybe it's only because it was the first thing mentioned to me here. God, I hate being so frikkin ignorant about this stuff. I've played classical piano my whole life, and this rock keyboard stuff is just foreign to me. Plus, I have to sing 90 percent of our songs. Argghhh!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmemcse517 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Use this mixer to connect both your keyboards to - http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MG06/ Forget about DI's and everything else. Buy that mixer and it will do everything you need it to effectively and easily. Make your synth choice easy. Choose between the Roland Gaia SH-01 and the Novation UltraNova. They are both the same price and very similar. First go here to listen to the Gaia - http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SH01/ Then go here to listen to the UltraNova - http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/UltraNova/ Just pick whichever sounds good to you at the moment and get it on it's way here. You could debate the fine points of mixers and keyboards forever, but that mixer and either one of these keyboards will provide you with years of great times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfD Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 I appreciate all the advice, but everyone of you are talking so far over my head right now , I am just freaking lost. I keep coming back to that Novation Ultranova, but maybe it's only because it was the first thing mentioned to me here. Taking a step back... Do yourself a favor and check out the Novation Ultranova and Roland Gaia. Either one of those synths (sub-$1k) should provide enough sounds to cover the song material and compliment the RD700SX. PD "The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockitman Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 Use this mixer to connect both your keyboards to - http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MG06/ Forget about DI's and everything else. Buy that mixer and it will do everything you need it to effectively and easily. Make your synth choice easy. Choose between the Roland Gaia SH-01 and the Novation UltraNova. They are both the same price and very similar. First go here to listen to the Gaia - http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SH01/ Then go here to listen to the UltraNova - http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/UltraNova/ Just pick whichever sounds good to you at the moment and get it on it's way here. You could debate the fine points of mixers and keyboards forever, but that mixer and either one of these keyboards will provide you with years of great times. Thank you, this I can understand!! And thanks to everyone else who chimed in. It's like learning a new language though. I started way too late! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockitman Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 I appreciate all the advice, but everyone of you are talking so far over my head right now , I am just freaking lost. I keep coming back to that Novation Ultranova, but maybe it's only because it was the first thing mentioned to me here. Taking a step back... Do yourself a favor and check out the Novation Ultranova and Roland Gaia. Either one of those synths (sub-$1k) should provide enough sounds to cover the song material and compliment the RD700SX. Gracias! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphollis Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I feel a certain empathy for the poor newbie souls who come here looking for advice. Be careful of what you ask for, you just might get it! Want to make your band better? Check out "A Guide To Starting (Or Improving!) Your Own Local Band" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Ingram Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 For a synthesizer for playing Cars music, I think you would be blown away by the Casio XW-P1. It has literally HUNDREDS of presets, and every sound you can think of. I'll link to it so you can get a taste for some of the sounds. I don't have much experience with the Novation, but I can say that it's, and the Roland's key beds are nothing compared to the Casio, and with the Casio you get two more octaves of keys. The Casio also has an organ drawbar mode, and it's overall a much better MIDI controller (for VSTs or external modules) than either of the other synths you're considering. I have the Roland SH-201: What it's good for is QUICK customization of sounds. I don't think that's what you're looking for, though. As for a mixer, the Yamaha one looks fine, but I've had no experience with it. I can recommend this Behringer Mixer. [video:youtube] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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