Metheny and the Orchestrion

[Dave Bryce]

Saw him and the Unity band last night in Santa Barbara.

 

On top of the fact that he and the band (especially drummer Antonio Sanchez) were nothing short of devastating, his "robot" Orchestrion is just ridiculous to watch as Metheny uses it to trigger acoustic instruments all over the stage.. It's kinda like Ableton, but taken to a whole other level.

 

If he's coming anywhere near you, I heavily recommend this tour.

 

dB

[Dana.]

Funny, I've seen all of those guys multiple times except Metheny, who I've never seen.

[Mark Zeger]

I've been a big fan of Metheny since "the white album". The "Orchestrion" album left me a little flat. As audio only, I didn't value simply hearing the Orchestrion generated parts vs hearing the same parts coming from a digital source.

 

In a live performance, the Orchestrion is just incredible. I saw the 4 piece Unity Band at Newport and will see the new Unity Group in March. It was a big surprise when the roadies pulled the black tarps off the Orchestrion during the set. Seeing all the mechanical devices in play, hearing elements coming at you from different locations, and knowing that PM is triggering everything in real time? Sick.

 

It's a joy to hear and see but I wouldn't want to maintain it on the road!

[synthizen2]

Been a huge fan since about 1982. Saw him, I dunno, about a dozen times over the years, and that was only the "Group"... also saw him in various of his solo projects too.

 

The very best concert I ever saw of him was the tour for the last "Group" album "The Way Up" (consisting of a single 60 minute composition).... IMHO the best "Group" album he ever put out. That's one thing I can say about Metheny... he never fails to break new ground.

 

I love his various solo and other projects... but when the GROUP comes around, I'm always there. Gotta have me some Lyle Mays as part of the ensemble.

[richforman]

Going to see the show next month, have loved Pat's music for decades as many of us have. I just heard the Orchestrion album for the first two times this past weekend, a friend burned me a cd copy, I listened to it in the car a couple times on a long road trip, and I had no idea that there was this revolutionary-sounding technological gizmo or setup that you guys are talking about, behind it and I am still not quite sure I get it (will have to do some additional research now). I thought it just sounded like a pretty typical (and typically beautiful and amazing) PMG album with new band members.

[timwat]

On a related note, I wish Lyle would tour. I've only seen him once with the PMG. As it appears Pat isn't going back there anytime soon, would love to see Lyle more active (releasing another solo effort, touring...).

[Tusker]

I listened to it in the car a couple times on a long road trip, and I had no idea that there was this revolutionary-sounding technological gizmo or setup that you guys are talking about, behind it and I am still not quite sure I get it (will have to do some additional research now).

 

Here's some nice video of it ....

 

[video:youtube]9VymAn8QJNQ

 

There's a lot more to it than what I understand, but basically, it's the Yamaha's Diskclavier's midi-to-solenoid technology, Digital Performer as a sequencer and a ton of mechanical creativity to make all the bots. Eric Singer did a lot of the work ...

 

http://lemurbots.org/index.html

[yorgatron]

Funny, I've seen all of those guys multiple times except Metheny, who I've never seen.

 

why would you want to?

 

can't stand him.

[Dana.]

can't stand him.

Why?

 

The only music of his that I've spent much time with is Missouri Sky (with Charlie Haden), which I think is a lovely, tasteful album. Beyond that, I don't have an opinion. By all accounts, he's an exceptionally creative, talented musician who's highly respected.

[Joe Muscara]

How much of that Orchestron stuff does he bring on the road???

 

It seems like he started the tour here a couple of weeks ago, but I only found out about it when it was too late.

[GovernorSilver]

Thanks for the reminder to order my ticket for the DC show at Strathmore, which I just did! One thing I love about Strathmore is they don't tack on a service charge, convenience charge, or other ticky tacky BS to your ticket.

 

@dB Did Carmassi get a chance to showcase his keyboard chops?

 

Re: Orchestrion... I enjoyed his Orchestrion show at Strathmore. Gary Burton was in the audience. Strathmore's PA started to malfunction, so the techs turned it off, and whisked Metheny's personal PA onstage - turned out to be FOUR Bose PAS systems. Sound was very good! He had three or was it four wireless POK pedals to trigger MIDI events. I read that he had an Ableton Live Set with 400 scenes programmed for the tour. He also had a Moog Taurus 3 but I couldn't tell if he was just triggering stuff with it too or using its sound. I tried asking on the Moog forum and was told to buy a magazine, lol. BTW, I think he brought his entire Orchestrion rig, but you can do that when you can hire all those roadies and techs to tour with you. I saw violinist Todd Reynolds tour with a much smaller Orchestrion-esque rig (maybe 1/4 of the LEMUR bots) with LEMUR's lead tech Eric Singer on tour with him to fix stuff as needed.

 

I have some Metheny haters in my local social circle. They tend to come out of a punk rock or psyche rock background - to them their ideal "jazz guitarist" is the likes of Nels Cline or Mary Halvorson. I like those players too, but I have room in my world for them AND Metheny. His Bright Size Life album is an all-time classic. I dig the writing on the "The Way Up" album.

[Dana.]

I have some Metheny haters in my local social circle. They tend to come out of a punk rock or psyche rock background - to them their ideal "jazz guitarist" is the likes of Nels Cline or Mary Halvorson. I like those players too, but I have room in my world for them AND Metheny. His Bright Size Life album is an all-time classic. I dig the writing on the "The Way Up" album.

I don't understand all the fawning for Halvorson. To my ears, it's all intellect; no heart/soul/emotion. Is it because jazz critics like her nerdy look? She seems to be leading a certain sector of jazz that may be advancing the form, but I feel like it perpetuates all the elements of jazz that makes it a dirty word for so many people.

[GovernorSilver]

I have some Metheny haters in my local social circle. They tend to come out of a punk rock or psyche rock background - to them their ideal "jazz guitarist" is the likes of Nels Cline or Mary Halvorson. I like those players too, but I have room in my world for them AND Metheny. His Bright Size Life album is an all-time classic. I dig the writing on the "The Way Up" album.

I don't understand all the fawning for Halvorson. To my ears, it's all intellect; no heart/soul/emotion. Is it because jazz critics like her nerdy look? She seems to be leading a certain sector of jazz that may be advancing the form, but I feel like it perpetuates all the elements of jazz that makes it a dirty word for so many people.

 

I dunno why the critics like her. I like her music and playing but to me it has more in common with contemporary classical than jazz. Her teachers (Joe Morris and Anthony Braxton) are of an intellectual bent themselves. There seems to be a group of musos in Brooklyn or thereabouts like her who are even more into putting writing over playing.

 

My punk and psyche friends love her because she's brought their world into what she does - similar age group and musical tastes. Metheny is not aggressive enough for them I guess, although I keep telling them about Song X, 80/81...

[Mark Zeger]

How much of that Orchestron stuff does he bring on the road???

It's a chop. With the Unity Band, I think he had Orchestrion vibes and percussion, "bottle organ" (with lights showing which bottle is sounding), and a bass.

 

GovSilver: Love the Strathmore. Was there only once for Randy Newman. It's a gem.

 

D-Bon: You might his trio albums with Dave Holland/Roy Haynes, Larry Grenadier/Jeff Ballard, and Christian McBride/Antonio Sanchez, and the albums he made with Brad Mehldau.

[Joe Muscara]

How much of that Orchestron stuff does he bring on the road???

It's a chop.

[Dana.]

I like her music and playing but to me it has more in common with contemporary classical than jazz. There seems to be a group of musos in Brooklyn or thereabouts like her who are even more into putting writing over playing.

So it's more compositional and less improvisational?

 

On a related note, this new-ish venue in my neighborhood seems to cater to the musos you're referring to. I've been meaning to catch a show there but keep forgetting to check the calendar to see who's playing.

 

http://seedsbrooklyn.org

[Dana.]

D-Bon: You might his trio albums with Dave Holland/Roy Haynes, Larry Grenadier/Jeff Ballard, and Christian McBride/Antonio Sanchez, and the albums he made with Brad Mehldau.

Thanks. I keep forgetting to check out those albums with Mehldau.

[MAJUSCULE]

D-Bon: You might his trio albums with Dave Holland/Roy Haynes, Larry Grenadier/Jeff Ballard, and Christian McBride/Antonio Sanchez, and the albums he made with Brad Mehldau.

Thanks. I keep forgetting to check out those albums with Mehldau.

 

+1 Not forgetting the aforementioned classic, Bright Size Life. So incredible to think of that album being written and recorded by a group of 20-somethings.

[GovernorSilver]

I like her music and playing but to me it has more in common with contemporary classical than jazz. There seems to be a group of musos in Brooklyn or thereabouts like her who are even more into putting writing over playing.

So it's more compositional and less improvisational?

 

On a related note, this new-ish venue in my neighborhood seems to cater to the musos you're referring to. I've been meaning to catch a show there but keep forgetting to check the calendar to see who's playing.

 

http://seedsbrooklyn.org

 

Yeah, at least the younger NYC-based musos that have come down to DC to play through-composed music - no improvised melodic solos - if they improvise at all, it's just making noises or twisting knobs on pedals. There seems to be a similar movement among young Chicago musos with jazz backgrounds - an example being the band Algernon.

 

At least Mary's band has members who still take solos. Mary herself soloed maybe three times out of the entire set when I saw them in DC. The trumpet player was in Steve Coleman's band.

 

I'd be interested in a report after you check out Seeds. I hear Mary plays at the Stone a lot? I've only heard one semi-serious complaint about that place - this one guy thought it was too centered around a certain scene. The other complaint I've heard is "it's so damn small".

[Cybersoniq]

Saw him and the Unity band last night in Santa Barbara.

 

On top of the fact that he and the band (especially drummer Antonio Sanchez) were nothing short of devastating, his "robot" Orchestrion is just ridiculous to watch

dB

I saw the original Orchestrion tour and the last one with The Unity Band...both were amazing. I have to say that the combination of Orchestrion plus these killer musicians adds so much to the compositions where the improvisations take Pat's music to epic levels.

 

Check out the excellent 2CD Orchestrion Project Soundtrack where Pat also performs older PM tunes including Sueno Con Mexico, 80/81, Antonia and Unity Village. The set also includes a great 10 minute improv, built up with electric guitar, percussion & mallet looping patterns where Pat then adds his screaming guitar synth to top things off!

 

Seeing the new Group in a few weeks...very psyched

[Dave Bryce]

@dB Did Carmassi get a chance to showcase his keyboard chops?

Not really.

 

Towards the end of the set, Pat did one number with each of the guys in the group - first with the bass, then the horns, then keys, then drums. Carmassi's tune showed off his singing more than his keyboard chops.

 

 

Re: Orchestrion... I enjoyed his Orchestrion show at Strathmore. Gary Burton was in the audience. Strathmore's PA started to malfunction, so the techs turned it off, and whisked Metheny's personal PA onstage - turned out to be FOUR Bose PAS systems. Sound was very good! He had three or was it four wireless POK pedals to trigger MIDI events. I read that he had an Ableton Live Set with 400 scenes programmed for the tour. He also had a Moog Taurus 3 but I couldn't tell if he was just triggering stuff with it too or using its sound.

I believe he was using the pedals to change scenes. Didn't hear anything that sounded like Taurus pedals.

 

dB

[Dana.]

During Winter Jazzfest last year, I walked out of something Kris Davis was involved with. I think Tom Rainey was on drums, and Ralph Alessi was on trumpet (who I usually enjoy; I saw him play a lovely duo set with Fred Hersch last year); I can't recall who else was in the band. Anyway, it might not have been her project, but I wasn't feeling it at all. I don't think I'm the right audience for this new strain of jazz. :idk

[Dana.]

I'd be interested in a report after you check out Seeds. I hear Mary plays at the Stone a lot? I've only heard one semi-serious complaint about that place - this one guy thought it was too centered around a certain scene. The other complaint I've heard is "it's so damn small".

She often plays at The Stone and Cornelia Street Café.

 

The Stone is Zorn's venue, so it caters to that type of muso. I've seen many shows there: Zorn, Mephista, Craig Taborn's Junk Magic (astounding), Okkyung Lee, etc. My only complaint is that it's a sweatbox during the summer; they turn off the AC when the artist is playing and it's punishing.

[Dana.]

Oops. Didn't mean to hijack your thread, dB!

[richforman]

Thanks for the video Tusker, that is fascinating. Would like to understand more of what's going on....how much of the mechanical playing is pre-sequenced like a player piano and how much is being played live somehow by Pat, or triggered, and how exactly? I can see if the vibes and bells play along in unison with his guitar playing, but the drum parts? We had a trhead around here recently about which non-keyboard musicians have influenced us, and Pat Metheny is one of my top answers....not that my playing is in any remote universe with his, but I have always been inspired and I think influenced a little by something in the way he teases and coaxes notes and melodies out of his instrument and the delicacy of his phrasing and feel. He absolutely has developed his own distinctive musical voice almost like its own melodic/harmonic language, I'd say, his own recognizable compositional style whatever the timbre or tempo.

[Dave Bryce]

Oops. Didn't mean to hijack your thread, dB!

Bastid!

 

dB

[GovernorSilver]

Thanks for the video Tusker, that is fascinating. Would like to understand more of what's going on....how much of the mechanical playing is pre-sequenced like a player piano and how much is being played live somehow by Pat, or triggered, and how exactly? I can see if the vibes and bells play along in unison with his guitar playing, but the drum parts?

 

Ableton Live is the brains of the operation. People think of Live as an audio clip launcher, but a "clip" can also be MIDI. Clips are organized into Scenes. Metheny reportedly used 400 scenes for his Orchestrion Live set.

 

Metheny also has a MIDI guitar setup for unison playing with his guitar lines.

 

This article has some info, and mentions the Taurus 3 as a controller:

https://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr10/articles/orchestrion.htm

 

This one mentions the 400 scenes in Live - as a real musician who happens to operate a guitar (as opposed to the average guitarist who can't read music), he did a lot of writing in Sibelius first:

http://www.emusician.com/features-interviews/0777/pat-metheny--a-well-oiled-machine/143775

 

We had a trhead around here recently about which non-keyboard musicians have influenced us, and Pat Metheny is one of my top answers....not that my playing is in any remote universe with his, but I have always been inspired and I think influenced a little by something in the way he teases and coaxes notes and melodies out of his instrument and the delicacy of his phrasing and feel. He absolutely has developed his own distinctive musical voice almost like its own melodic/harmonic language, I'd say, his own recognizable compositional style whatever the timbre or tempo.

 

He's been an influence on me for sure. On his track "The Longest Summer" (from the album Secret Story), he plays the piano part himself if you want to hear how his personal voice sounds on the piano. Not surprisingly, his phrasing is similar to Lyle's.

[Mark Zeger]

I saw the PM Unity Group in Buffalo last night. Just a staggering display of chops AND the impeccable good taste to know how to use them. Especially Antonio Sanchez who plays a whole lotta drums but never comes off as excessive. Complete efficient fluid drumming where the shoulders barely move but the hands are everywhere on the kit.

 

I went last night with one of the finest sax players and jazz educators in our area. On the ride home, he gave me a play by play recap of the brilliance that is Chris Potter.

 

Metheny and Potter played a duet of "All The Things You Are", diving right into and tearing up the changes with the head played only at the end. Their "All The Things You Are" showed me all the things I'm not.

 

The 2hr 30min evening was capped off with a solo nylon string medley of Metheny themes including "Phase Dance", "Minuano", "This is Not America", "Antonia", September Fifteenth", and "Last Train Home" among them.

 

 

[richforman]

I am excited to be seeing them in Philly this Saturday night. Have been listening lately to the Orchestrion and Unity Band CD's (haven't heard Kin yet), that latter one especially I just love, as I do pretty much all of Metheny's music, he is a genius, one of my top favorite artists.

 

Anyway - was that closing solo medley the only appearance of familiar/"classic"/PMG music in the program? (My girlfriend will be disappointed to learn that!) And does Pat still use the Orchestrion system on stage?

 

thanks for the review Mark.

[Mark Zeger]

Rich, with permission to provide spoilers, the older PM material last night included "Dream of the Return" as duet with Giulio Carmassi, "Bright Size Life" as a duet with Ben Williams, and "Go Get It" as a duet with Antonio Sanchez. "Are You Going With Me" was the set closer. Potter plays flute on it and the orchestrion bottle organs play the harmony lines behind him. There's really not much drawn from the PMG catalog. Just ask your girlfriend to lenjoy it "in the moment". Sometimes it's not about what you know. It's about what you don't know.

 

The first section of the concert is the quartet playing "Unity Band" material. The second section is the quintet playing from "Kin" which I loved. Aside from their ability to play this music, I'm also astounded by the ability to memorize it!

 

The orchestrion elements were:

2 bottle organs

a full marimba

various xylophones/glockenspiels

ride cymbals

a snare with a stick and brush

shakers

a bandoneon with keys that light up

 

Last night, my friend said for these musicians their instruments offer no obstacles. Playing is like breathing. True.