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Don't Stand So Close to Me


J. Dan

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So we decided to so this song. Most of it very easy....but those chords In the break. Almost sounds like I could get away mashing my face on the keyboard and nobody would know any different. But I'm guessing they're real chords. I know DB did "police cars" and Bernmeister scores these things with savant-like accuracy....figured it wouldn't hurt to ask.

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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Dan, I think you're on the right track to begin with. Sounds like they just held a lot of 'key clusters' (i.e. groups of consecutive keys) somewhere in the centre of the register and faded them in with an expression pedal. That's what I'd do to replicate the effect, anyhow.

Studio: Yamaha P515 | Yamaha Tyros 5 | Yamaha HX1 | Moog Sub 37

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Dan, I think you're on the right track to begin with. Sounds like they just held a lot of 'key clusters' (i.e. groups of consecutive keys) somewhere in the centre of the register and faded them in with an expression pedal. That's what I'd do to replicate the effect, anyhow.

 

So....face plant? Lol! Sorry.

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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Well, holding them down with your palms and fingers and looking like you mean it might appear slightly more professional, but whatever floats yer boat!

 

Terrible video, btw - had forgotten how bad that one was!

Studio: Yamaha P515 | Yamaha Tyros 5 | Yamaha HX1 | Moog Sub 37

Road: Yamaha YC88 | Nord Electro 5D

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Well, holding them down with your palms and fingers and looking like you mean it might appear slightly more professional, but whatever floats yer boat!

 

Terrible video, btw - had forgotten how bad that one was!

 

LOL! It WAS the 80s! Do I need to post more videos to remind you? Nah, I'll save you the torture!

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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Just don't buy another wig.

 

You know, this is getting OT, but since this band is starting to venture into 80s, and talking more tribute, and outfits, I find myself drawing a hard line. On song selection, sometimes I'm like " are you stupid? I've done all these songs since the 80s....why would you want to do X instead of Y?" On the other hand, I'm like "F no, no wigs!" And similar stances on similar issues. These guys are 50s and one is 60s. If my old band didn't look like idiots in wigs, this band certainly would. Let's focus on just being kick ass old musicians.

 

On the other hand, I'm finding myself ill equipped to make good choices on the 60s songs.

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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Dan, I think you're on the right track to begin with. Sounds like they just held a lot of 'key clusters' (i.e. groups of consecutive keys) somewhere in the centre of the register and faded them in with an expression pedal. That's what I'd do to replicate the effect, anyhow.

 

So....face plant? Lol! Sorry.

 

I'm hearing Eb and Gm - all notes in Eb major and G (natural) minor scales. There's also an upward sweep on the pitch - either a filter opening (easily driven from an expression pedal) or holding down notes sequentially.

 

If both my hands were free, I'd probably play 16th-notes with 8 fingers (no thumbs)

- Ab Bb C D Eb F G Ab (and hold for 7 beats)

- G A Bb C D Eb F G

String machine-ish patch with a slowed attack.

 

I've just listened to a live version - Andy Summers covers it with (I think) Ebadd9 and Gm9 chords on a guitar synth/effect.

might help (his guitar is tuned down a tone)

 

Cheers. Mike.

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I don't think you need me to figure out some proper chords and licks from the great piece of music at hand.

 

Most likely there's harmonizing (emphasizing parts of chords and prefering certain harmonic sound components over others) going on. I'm not an expert on that technique (yet) but it isn't reasonable to "just imitate" that, probably that's also hard to do live, maybe unless unless you wrote the piece, in general.

 

Also, the advanced sounds used by Mr Summers, and the world class drum recording aren't easy to replicate with rompler-type machines, which already can't possibly store all two-note combinations with a few velocity variations, let alone the complicated resonances possible with real instruments, and the playing with that. So either an advanced synthesized sound or trickery would be required to catch a bit of that sort of record, and do it some justice as a cover...

 

T.

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Haven't played this in years, but IIRC, it's Eb and Gm.

Korg Kronos 61 (2); Kurzweil PC4, Casio PX-350M; 2015 Macbook Pro and 2012 Mac Mini (Logic Pro X and Mainstage), GigPerformer 4.

 

My Genesis Tribute Band: www.sellingfairfaxbythepound.com

 

 

 

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The "chords" are clearly Eb and G minor. But I am curious. I've been out of clubs for so long, but when I was, I don't think anyone of the drinking, dancing, looking for love crowd would ever notice that the band had failed to cover the "whooshing synth pad overdub" that sits on top of the Eb & G- bridge.

Sure, musicians hear more going on. There are vocal and synth ODs, but the "Meat & Potatoes" of that part of the song should be enough to satisfy your audience. I'll bet few if any paid any attention to the "filtered sawtooth waves" when the record was out.

If it's still important to you, add some 6ths and 9ths to the chords and use a slow sweeping filter.

Don't rush me. I'm playing as slowly as I can!

 

www.stevenathanmusic.com

https://apple.co/2EGpYXK

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So, why no Wings? Just personal preference, or is it because (I suspect) a lot of them are overproduced and take a lot of work to nail authentically? People sure do like Wings. I didn't think I did -- I really didn't care for it when it came out. But when I saw Sir Paul a few years ago, I found I really enjoyed all the Wings stuff almost as much as the Beatles. Took me by surprise.

 

Just curious.

 

Regarding the two versions: I like both. Might be fun to start and end with the original but use the new in the middle.

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I don't think anyone of the drinking, dancing, looking for love crowd would ever notice that the band had failed to cover the "whooshing synth pad overdub" that sits on top of the Eb & G- bridge.
Spoken like a pro. :)

 

It's fun to be a human jukebox, but we don't always need to be one.

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So we decided to so this song. Most of it very easy....but those chords In the break. Almost sounds like I could get away mashing my face on the keyboard and nobody would know any different. But I'm guessing they're real chords. I know DB did "police cars" and Bernmeister scores these things with savant-like accuracy....figured it wouldn't hurt to ask.

Here's what I can make of it. It varies slightly the second time around, so use the notes you want.

 

http://i42.tinypic.com/alpxdx.png

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Those cluster chords are more than likely played by Andy Summers on his guitar synth. He liked to tune the guitar synth to play the root and the 5th of any single note, so whatever strange chord he was playing was harmonized a 5th above. Then you just have a simple analog string playing the high G.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjOpNOqc9Dk

 

Here's Andy in '81 talking to Jools Holland about his gear, set up outside of Sir George Martin's AIR Studios in Montserrat (now under a pile of volcanic rock). The Police were in the process of recording "Ghost In The Machine". Andy talks about the guitar synth around 2:00 in.

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Struth , sorry Dan , it is indeed Eb with the Gm - NOT Db.

My bad for putting that glitch down in writing.

Weird , I could find and call those chords instantly on my piano , but stuffed it up in writing. Will be more careful in future , because I know how frustrating wrong information can be.

 

Brett

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I don't think anyone of the drinking, dancing, looking for love crowd would ever notice that the band had failed to cover the "whooshing synth pad overdub" that sits on top of the Eb & G- bridge.
Spoken like a pro. :)

 

It's fun to be a human jukebox, but we don't always need to be one.

 

So if a drunk crowd doesn't notice that the sound guy didn't turn the keys up in the mix, does that mean they don't need to be there? Maybe I should just stay home.

 

Thanks guys. BernMeister, that sounds right to me.

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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So if a drunk crowd doesn't notice that the sound guy didn't turn the keys up in the mix, does that mean they don't need to be there? Maybe I should just stay home.

 

Thanks guys.

 

There's no need to get snarky. I honestly asked why we musicians often pay more attention to one part over another, and in fact often feel compelled to recreate something that the average listener typically finds less important or insignificant. I wanted to understand the choice to play this particular part (which I also thought was Andy Summers) over what I would call "the basic track". And then I went on to give you my opinion of the best way to imitate this part if you wanted to (w/add 9s, 2s & filter sweeps).

Don't rush me. I'm playing as slowly as I can!

 

www.stevenathanmusic.com

https://apple.co/2EGpYXK

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So if a drunk crowd doesn't notice that the sound guy didn't turn the keys up in the mix, does that mean they don't need to be there? Maybe I should just stay home.

 

Thanks guys.

 

There's no need to get snarky. I honestly asked why we musicians often pay more attention to one part over another, and in fact often feel compelled to recreate something that the average listener typically finds less important or insignificant. I wanted to understand the choice to play this particular part (which I also thought was Andy Summers) over what I would call "the basic track". And then I went on to give you my opinion of the best way to imitate this part if you wanted to (w/add 9s, 2s & filter sweeps).

 

I asked about this part because I needed help with that part, it doesn't mean I'm ignoring the other parts or not playing them. Does asking a question about this part mean that it's the only part I'm going to play? I don't need any help with any of the other parts. I strictly was having trouble picking out the notes in those chords, that's it.

 

The idea of your post was why put any effort into that part if drunk people in a bar won't know the difference. My snarky reply was to demonstrate that everybody has their limit as to what they consider important. For me, I'm going to try, as I always do, to make it sound as identical to the CD as possible. Other people don't do that, some people don't even try, some people do strictly "their own version".

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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Not to derail, but seeing where this discussion might be going, having been part of a wedding/corporate event band where the leaders wanted to sound as much as possible "like the record", I have formed an opinion on the matter.

 

--In the case of the band I was in, for some strange reason sounding "like the record" seemed to apply much more to the keyboard player than anyone else! For instance, while 98% of the top-40 songs we did used drum machines, our drummer did not get any such advice when he played his acoustic drum set on them. They did not insist he buy and bring a pad kit or triggers, along with a module with the appropriate "contemporary" drum samples. They were equally lenient with the guitar player but that may have been because he was a co-owner of the band! :/ All those synth bass parts? Why, it was perfectly OK to play them on a Fender Jazz Bass! No problem there. :)

 

-- Of course, all these top-40 songs had multiple layered synth tracks. I was expected to grow another set of arms and hands. (Actually, they were visibly disappointed at my first gig with them when I showed up with nothing but my tiny 61-key controller).

 

-- Now, what may be germane to this thread: in all my years playing these gigs I have never seen or heard of anyone giving a rat's behind as to whether we "sounded like the record." Hell, we had a few tunes where we mimed along to an mp3 and I never saw anyone give a second glance at the band AAMOF they seemed to enjoy the music even more! :facepalm:

 

So, J. Dan, if replicating a part as faithfully as possible floats your boat then by all means go for it. I've enjoyed the challenge of figuring out a hard-to-hear part a few times myself. Transcribing from a recording is a good and useful skill so any time you do it you're exercising that muscle and might make the next time easier. I just want to say that when I do it, it's really just for myself. Am I stating the obvious? I mean, does anyone here really think Joe & Jane sixpack are gonna know or care? I'm pretty sure that the reason audiences liked the band I was in was because the rhythm section players listened to each other, played well together and knew how to groove. Not because I managed to play both the high & low string parts along with the keyboard ostinato on "I Got A Feelin'."

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So, J. Dan, if replicating a part as faithfully as possible floats your boat then by all means go for it. I've enjoyed the challenge of figuring out a hard-to-hear part a few times myself. Transcribing from a recording is a good and useful skill so any time you do it you're exercising that muscle and might make the next time easier. I just want to say that when I do it, it's really just for myself.

+1

 

Floats my boat, too. Last time I checked, I don't have any of my keyboard parts being played on the radio. So I enjoy dissecting a keyboard part to see what's going on, so that maybe I can learn something. While I may end up modifying or embellishing a part to accommodate/groove with what my band mates are doing, it's really all about me. ;):thu:

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing."

- George Bernard Shaw

 

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I guess I got a little carried away, but I've always been bugged by the idea that I was expected to duplicate sounds & parts on a recording to an extent not expected from other members of the band. Maybe this should be a separate thread. Or, maybe just drop the whole thing! :)
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Excellent post, Reezekeys. I couldn't agree with you more.

 

For my part, I tend to think that most songs have certain "signature" elements, which a typical audience member will expect to hear in a cover version. If everyone in a band focuses on those elements, as far as I'm concerned you're good to go. As they say, "close enough for rock n' roll."

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I dunno, Noah. There comes a point that if the keyboard player learns the song "close enough" and the drummer learns the song close enough, and the guitar player learns it close enough, and the bass player, and the singer, etc., then sometimes the song doesn't end up being close at all. Perhaps an overstatement, but lot of really cool stuff is often left out.

 

All things being equal (e.g., talent, groove, musicianship, chemistry, etc.), I think if the typical audience member heard Band #1 play a song "close enough" and then heard Band #2 play the same song with all of the parts nailed, on average, they would prefer Band #2. They may not even be able to articulate why they liked it better.

 

While it may be more important for some styles of music than others, I think it's the subtle stuff, whether it be an accent here, or a riff there, or a harmony here, that separates the upper echelon bands from the others, and at some level this resonates with the audience.

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing."

- George Bernard Shaw

 

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