Roland V-Combo VR-09

[Craig MacDonald]

Question for the other VR-09 owners.. I'm intending to give my VR-09 a try tomorrow evening as organ and controller with my Korg Kronos.. So I'll have the VR-09 on the bottom, and the Kronos on top.

 

It was my intention to have the VR-09 as a master transmitting midi to the Kronos, so that I can use the VR-09 organ layered with the Kronos acoustic piano and strings and other sounds, and get around the expression pedal issue. HOWEVER what I have discovered is that when I'm playing an organ tone on the VR-09 it does NOT transmit midi velocity. The VR-09 transmits velocity information when playing a piano or synth sound but NOT when playing an organ sound. I haven't been able to find anything in the owners manual or in the midi implementation documentation that would shed any light on this. Just because the VR-09 organ doesn't require velocity, I still need to send it when I'm using it as a controller.

 

Has anyone else noticed this and is there any way to turn transmit velocity ON while in organ mode?

 

I'm going to report this as a question/bug.

 

EDIT: I have just found a work around for the problem but I'll leave this posted here in case anyone has a similar problem and needs a solution. To work around this I noticed that IF I create a layer, organ plus any other non-organ tone, the VR-09 transmits velocity. IF I turn down the volume of the non-organ tone to zero, I get only organ tone on the VR-09 and I am now able to transmit velocity to an external midi device.

 

I still think that this is an issue and I've reported it, but it's a pretty easy work around.

[HammondDave]

Question for the other VR-09 owners.. I'm intending to give my VR-09 a try tomorrow evening as organ and controller with my Korg Kronos.. So I'll have the VR-09 on the bottom, and the Kronos on top.

 

It was my intention to have the VR-09 as a master transmitting midi to the Kronos, so that I can use the VR-09 organ layered with the Kronos acoustic piano and strings and other sounds, and get around the expression pedal issue. HOWEVER what I have discovered is that when I'm playing an organ tone on the VR-09 it does NOT transmit midi velocity. The VR-09 transmits velocity information when playing a piano or synth sound but NOT when playing an organ sound. I haven't been able to find anything in the owners manual or in the midi implementation documentation that would shed any light on this. Just because the VR-09 organ doesn't require velocity, I still need to send it when I'm using it as a controller.

 

Has anyone else noticed this and is there any way to turn transmit velocity ON while in organ mode?

 

I'm going to report this as a question/bug.

 

EDIT: I have just found a work around for the problem but I'll leave this posted here in case anyone has a similar problem and needs a solution. To work around this I noticed that IF I create a layer, organ plus any other non-organ tone, the VR-09 transmits velocity. IF I turn down the volume of the non-organ tone to zero, I get only organ tone on the VR-09 and I am now able to transmit velocity to an external midi device.

 

I still think that this is an issue and I've reported it, but it's a pretty easy work around.

 

Why not use the Kronos as the Master?

[Craig MacDonald]

Question for the other VR-09 owners.. I'm intending to give my VR-09 a try tomorrow evening as organ and controller with my Korg Kronos.. So I'll have the VR-09 on the bottom, and the Kronos on top.

 

It was my intention to have the VR-09 as a master transmitting midi to the Kronos, so that I can use the VR-09 organ layered with the Kronos acoustic piano and strings and other sounds, and get around the expression pedal issue. HOWEVER what I have discovered is that when I'm playing an organ tone on the VR-09 it does NOT transmit midi velocity. The VR-09 transmits velocity information when playing a piano or synth sound but NOT when playing an organ sound. I haven't been able to find anything in the owners manual or in the midi implementation documentation that would shed any light on this. Just because the VR-09 organ doesn't require velocity, I still need to send it when I'm using it as a controller.

 

Has anyone else noticed this and is there any way to turn transmit velocity ON while in organ mode?

 

I'm going to report this as a question/bug.

 

EDIT: I have just found a work around for the problem but I'll leave this posted here in case anyone has a similar problem and needs a solution. To work around this I noticed that IF I create a layer, organ plus any other non-organ tone, the VR-09 transmits velocity. IF I turn down the volume of the non-organ tone to zero, I get only organ tone on the VR-09 and I am now able to transmit velocity to an external midi device.

 

I still think that this is an issue and I've reported it, but it's a pretty easy work around.

 

Why not use the Kronos as the Master?

 

Actually it means less change to all my setups.. I normally play with my Mojo on the bottom and my Kronos up top, and because I don't like to reach up to play the Kronos, I generally use the lower manual of the Mojo as the master controller to play the Kronos sounds.. SO it's easier to just slip the VR-09 in and set it to transmit on channel 2 like the Mojo would have from the bottom manual, and then I don't have to reprogram all my setups..

 

One of the things I love about the Kronos is the Setlist function, and I create multiple set lists.. some with different songs in different order but I have a couple of master setlists with all the songs, set up for different configurations..

 

1. The Kronos with the Mojo

2. The Kronos by itself

3. The Kronos plus the VR-09 (this is what I'm working on now)

 

I honestly don't know how often I will use the Kronos and the VR-09 rather than my Mojo, but I'm in the process of replacing the soundcard on my Mojo (an upgraded) and it's a good excuse to give the VR-09 a try tomorrow night.

 

As I've said a few times, until the VR-09 can split layer sounds without all these quirks (expression pedal, effects issues) I really don't see myself using it by itself for a gig.. it's just back up for either/or the Kronos or the Mojo, so tomorrow night I'm basically using it as the Mojo.

 

 

[eric]

Wow what a thread. I'm still banking my $999, but thinking that maybe one of these posts might nudge me to spend it.

[voxpops]

Eric, some people have complained that, compared to the PX-5S, the VR-09 is not as much bang for the buck, given the nature of the keybed, the limited quality of the pianos, and so on. To me, that is the wrong way to look at it. The Casio is possibly the best value hammer action, lighweight piano/synth out there at the moment; the VR is complementary to it, providing a very good quality drawbar organ, with much else to supplement it, at the same price. I wasn't sure at first but, as with others reporting on this thread, the VR is growing on me, and I'm finding the organ to be as capable as many other clonewheels in terms of raw tone and rotary, but with a few compromises.

 

To decide, I think you just have to weigh up whether you can live with those compromises or not. It's the same with all boards - including the PX - but I can understand why some people would balk at the specific limitations of the VR. However, when weighed against the competition within a reasonable price "bandwidth," the VR comes out pretty much on top. Yes, as has been remarked, it might look at first glance, like a $600 board rather than a $1k unit, but good luck finding anything that challenges the VR's feature set.

 

Edit: BTW Craig's absolutely right, that "rinky-dink" VK organ model can be tweaked considerably on the VR to render it very usable.

[Kevmo]

Pulled the plug

only one avail at GC was LA so will ship to NJ.GET THIS they gave me 15%the off!

[Craig MacDonald]

Pulled the plug

only one avail at GC was LA so will ship to NJ.GET THIS they gave me 15%the off!

 

Kevmo, congrats!!! and an extra 15% off wow.. that's really a steal!! Hope it arrives quickly, let us know when you've received it, and if you have any questions/issues, don't be afraid to post them or PM me.

[Craig MacDonald]

but good luck finding anything that challenges the VR's feature set.

 

Edit: BTW Craig's absolutely right, that "rinky-dink" VK organ model can be tweaked considerably on the VR to render it very usable.

Voxpops that's a really interesting question.. "find something that challenges the VR's feature set?" The answer is that there really is nothing that competes with it feature for feature. The closest things to it, in the clonewheel arena, would be the Nord electro 4D or the SK1, and both of these are twice the price.

 

If you do a feature by feature comparison, out of the box the organs are pretty comparable, as are the leslie sims. In a blind listening test I'm not sure which organ would come out on top. As far as "Extra Voices", the sk1 voices are OK, some better than the VR-09, some worse.. The Nord Electro Extra voices are no doubt the best but if I'm not mistaken the Electro 4D has limited/no ability to split layer different sounds, and the SK1 is limited because one part MUST be organ, so the VR-09 is the pretty clear winner in this area. When it comes to Analog Synth capabilities, the Electro 4D and the SK1 have some typical synth samples whereas the VR-09 has a fully editable Virtual Analog synth.

 

As far as the interface goes, there is no question in my mind that the VR-09 interface is overall superior to either the Electro 4D or the SK1. Quick easy access to MFX, and superior effects, better organization of controls, easier process to create splits/layers on the fly, Joystick and D-Beam controllers AND it's the lightest of the three keyboards (3 pounds lighter than either the SK1 or the E4D), so the VR-09 wins here again.

 

When compared to the competition the VR-09 lacks a waterfall keyboard, and for some this is a deal breaker, and arguably some of the sounds AP/EP are not as strong as the Nord Electro. None the less, the VR-09 has a number of advantages over it's competitors, beyond the fact that it's half the price.

 

[Synthoid]

they gave me 15%the off!

 

I always wait for a sale or a coupon. Even received discounts on items listed in the "manufacturer exceptions" category.

[HammondDave]

Wow.. That means that the VR-09 is now $849... same for the Casio! If I were still gigging I would jump all over the Casio... Or maybe just buy one for my studio as I could use a good weighted controller... Hmmmm...

[Craig MacDonald]

Wow.. That means that the VR-09 is now $849... same for the Casio! If I were still gigging I would jump all over the Casio... Or maybe just buy one for my studio as I could use a good weighted controller... Hmmmm...

 

Dave, as has been suggested here a couple of times, the PX-5S + VR-09 = $1700 for a pretty fantastic gig rig!

[HammondDave]

Wow.. That means that the VR-09 is now $849... same for the Casio! If I were still gigging I would jump all over the Casio... Or maybe just buy one for my studio as I could use a good weighted controller... Hmmmm...

 

Dave, as has been suggested here a couple of times, the PX-5S + VR-09 = $1700 for a pretty fantastic gig rig!

 

And they both run on batteries! Wonder if batteries are included....???

[Craig MacDonald]

All you need is a Roland KC-110 battery powered amp!

[brenner13]

 

Thinking about a tube pre-amp to warm it some more. Tight budget, though...has anybody had ears on the Alesis tube duo?

 

 

Here we go again... Cue: "Speakeasy Music"

 

What's that old saying? "Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it."? How many times have we heard the OP's comment about warming up the tone after a new clone has come out?...

 

Well, the effect box people have a nice business concerning 'warming up' the sound.... I agree, if it does not sound good from the start, most of voodoo won't work.

 

Understood. The VR09 sounds great already, just looking for an enhancement for the overdrive mainly. However the internal crunch sounded really good at the gig last night. Quite happy with what it does.

[brenner13]

All you need is a Roland KC-110 battery powered amp!

 

Rechargeables, of course...

[Ekewaka]

Wow.. That means that the VR-09 is now $849... same for the Casio! If I were still gigging I would jump all over the Casio... Or maybe just buy one for my studio as I could use a good weighted controller... Hmmmm...

 

Dave, as has been suggested here a couple of times, the PX-5S + VR-09 = $1700 for a pretty fantastic gig rig!

 

That was my plan but after testing VR-09 at GC I gave up on that idea and cancelled my pre-order. The B3 Mainstage sounds are good and I just don't want to play on the VR-09 cardboard key set. Now, PX-5S, the gift keeps on giving!

[Craig MacDonald]

That was my plan but after testing VR-09 at GC I gave up on that idea and cancelled my pre-order. The B3 Mainstage sounds are good and I just don't want to play on the VR-09 cardboard key set. Now, PX-5S, the gift keeps on giving!

 

Kenekahuna.. can I ask you a question.. how many times are you planning to say the same thing here in this thread? Why don't you go back count the number of times that you've said "the VR-09 keyboard is crap" or "I cancelled my order" or "the PX-5S is better value" or "the VR-09 should be priced at $599" or something to this effect.. I think you'll be shocked at how many times you've said the same thing over and over.

 

You sound like a broken record..

[WOK]

That was my plan but after testing VR-09 at GC I gave up on that idea and cancelled my pre-order. The B3 Mainstage sounds are good and I just don't want to play on the VR-09 cardboard key set. Now, PX-5S, the gift keeps on giving!

The PX has a hammer action. How do you play hammond organ with that?!?

The VR-09 is not a stage piano. The only compare that would make sense would be with Nord's Compact Fatar or Hammond XK's Waterfall. I have the Kurzweil PC3LE6 with a Fatar TP8 here and the action is much too heavy to play B3 style....

[Ekewaka]

That was my plan but after testing VR-09 at GC I gave up on that idea and cancelled my pre-order. The B3 Mainstage sounds are good and I just don't want to play on the VR-09 cardboard key set. Now, PX-5S, the gift keeps on giving!

 

Kenekahuna.. can I ask you a question.. how many times are you planning to say the same thing here in this thread? Why don't you go back count the number of times that you've said "the VR-09 keyboard is crap" or "I cancelled my order" or "the PX-5S is better value" or "the VR-09 should be priced at $599" or something to this effect.. I think you'll be shocked at how many times you've said the same thing over and over.

 

You sound like a broken record..

 

Sorry, I thought this country had the freedom of the press. Look. If someone likes VR-09, fine for them. All I'm saying is to try out the keyboard, either you like it or feel it's a waste of $999. I had myself big hopes for this one, maybe the disillusion made me post this comment multiple time. Onwards.

[Ekewaka]

That was my plan but after testing VR-09 at GC I gave up on that idea and cancelled my pre-order. The B3 Mainstage sounds are good and I just don't want to play on the VR-09 cardboard key set. Now, PX-5S, the gift keeps on giving!

The PX has a hammer action. How do you play hammond organ with that?!?

The VR-09 is not a stage piano. The only compare that would make sense would be with Nord's Compact Fatar or Hammond XK's Waterfall. I have the Kurzweil PC3LE6 with a Fatar TP8 here and the action is much too heavy to play B3 style....

 

The plan was to use PX-5S for piano/EP/Clav and synths sounds, the VR-09 for organ and synth sounds. I could play organ with a weighted key set, it's doable, but yes I would not spend $999 on a PX-5S if it was solely for organ and synth playing. Just now my Yamaha KX61 works well for Mainstage/B3 sounds. I thought the KX61 was a crappy key bed until I tested out the latest offerings from Japan, Casio excluded.

[Craig MacDonald]

Kenekahuna/Ekewaka, that's two more times you've said basically the same thing.. and that's got to be close to 40 times you've made the same comments. You're certainly welcome to keep saying the same thing over and over again.. carry on.

 

 

[NeedMoreBass]

That was my plan but after testing VR-09 at GC I gave up on that idea and cancelled my pre-order.

 

This is getting old dude, we got the message.

[brenner13]

Honestly, I was put off a bit by the keybed at first opening of the box and at at risk of repeating myself, the piano sounds were disappointing, too. However, I bought the thing for the organ and like it a lot for that; and the keys work great for that purpose. You know, now that I think abut it, my old Hammond M3 had keys that took a while to get used to..

During the multi-month wait for my VR to arrive, I scoured the market (new and used) for something in the same price range but for my wants and desires, few things came close and ultimately nothing changed my mind.

As I see it, if one plays primarily AP and EP and also needs excellent synths the Casio is probably a better choice between the two. Those that want a better clonewheel experience might find favor with Roland. And at these prices, as both HammondDave and Craig deduced, a mighty powerful rig is one that might have both.

[B3bluesman59]

Pulled the plug

only one avail at GC was LA so will ship to NJ.GET THIS they gave me 15%the off!

________________________________________________________________

That 15% discount with GC is good only until 5/28/13.

[DulceLabs.com]

Pulled the plug

 

Using the insurance money to buy the VR?

http://gi97.photobucket.com/groups/l210/FZ7HDZGCW0/ill-violated-dead-smiley-9436.gif

 

[eric]

This is absolutely the most entertaining thread ever on this forum!!!!

 

It is soooo funny to see the fans protecting and the haters hating. I have seen it before, but I think this one tops all. The best part is that both perspectives from the "Hip Elite" haters to the "don't make fun of my new keyboard" fan boys provide the balance that is needed when folks are evaluating such a board. It would be a shame to silence either side of this polarizing dialogue.

[simchaleh]

The only thing of interest is this comment that the Roland rep posted at the end of one response..

 

"Stay tuned for news regarding sound expansions."

 

This struck me as very interesting because this might mean some updates to the OS to allow for the iPad editor to store sounds or some other update to allow individual sounds or registrations to be loaded into the VR-09.

 

there was something similiar in the roland bk5. theres no expansion slots, but on the recent update, after doing the quick usb update, there was some new sounds in the keyboard, and a realy nice new drumset also.

 

cant say for sure, but im guessing that its probably the same thing with the vr09. most probably and updated sounds will just be limited to what they decide, and will be passed throught the usb updating process. however, it means that they have the ability to update the ap!

 

regarding the lack of 'back' button by the registries,

with the roland bk5, they had fixed a problem with missing controlling button on the board for simple controlling issue (there was no octave up down on the board, wtihout doing menu diving), and the update made pressing a two key combo, to perform the same task, of the 'octave button' which wasnt built into the board. the 2 button combo they created was very intuitive and easy to learn.

someone should post the missing 'back' button in the register lists. its very likely they will think of some combo buttons to fix that.

the reason im bringing comparisons from the bk5, is that its also a new recent release from roland, and in the same price range, so im guessing we can expect the same type of service.

SB

[Ekewaka]

This is absolutely the most entertaining thread ever on this forum!!!!

 

It is soooo funny to see the fans protecting and the haters hating. I have seen it before, but I think this one tops all. The best part is that both perspectives from the "Hip Elite" haters to the "don't make fun of my new keyboard" fan boys provide the balance that is needed when folks are evaluating such a board. It would be a shame to silence either side of this polarizing dialogue.

 

Yes. I think it's healthy this kind of dialog happens as we consumers should be critical about products that are offered or the other way around. There's no need to try to hush down either side. Most readers are intelligent to filter our the noise, anyway, so there's no need to baby sit in this forum.

[rien]

there was something similiar in the roland bk5. theres no expansion slots, but on the recent update, after doing the quick usb update, there was some new sounds in the keyboard, and a realy nice new drumset also.

 

cant say for sure, but im guessing that its probably the same thing with the vr09. most probably and updated sounds will just be limited to what they decide, and will be passed throught the usb updating process. however, it means that they have the ability to update the ap!

 

Except for hardware issues, they can update anything they want, including the whole bank of sounds if they wish.

 

The most obvious example is the TD-9, for which a paid update was available, providing 50 new drumsets, years after the release of the initial module. Their USB facility is well designed and allows a lot of flexibility.

[NeedMoreBass]

This is absolutely the most entertaining thread ever on this forum!!!!

 

It is soooo funny to see the fans protecting and the haters hating. I have seen it before, but I think this one tops all. The best part is that both perspectives from the "Hip Elite" haters to the "don't make fun of my new keyboard" fan boys provide the balance that is needed when folks are evaluating such a board. It would be a shame to silence either side of this polarizing dialogue.

 

Yes. I think it's healthy this kind of dialog happens as we consumers should be critical about products that are offered or the other way around. There's no need to try to hush down either side. Most readers are intelligent to filter our the noise, anyway, so there's no need to baby sit in this forum.

 

Honest opinion of a product is always welcome and your opinion of this product is already well documented. It crossed the line of healthy dialogue quite a few pages back and into the category of extremely obnoxious!!