klezman Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Agree, but what about miking in an ensemble situation? Do you mic it or go completely acoustic? I have a gig I do on a C1 with elec. bass, drums, accordian, trumpet and clarinet. If the drummer isn't playing, I can play at a comfortable volume without any extra amplification, but as soon as the drums are added (and he's not a loud drummer) it seems to bury the piano. So when going from digital to acoustic, do you play with a lot more force or mic the piano? I often wonder, how loud one should be expected to be (do the classical folks in front of an orchestra play on a mic'd piano? ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allan_evett Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Agree, but what about miking in an ensemble situation? Do you mic it or go completely acoustic? I have a gig I do on a C1 with elec. bass, drums, accordian, trumpet and clarinet. If the drummer isn't playing, I can play at a comfortable volume without any extra amplification, but as soon as the drums are added (and he's not a loud drummer) it seems to bury the piano. So when going from digital to acoustic, do you play with a lot more force or mic the piano? I often wonder, how loud one should be expected to be (do the classical folks in front of an orchestra play on a mic'd piano? ). In an ensemble setting I'd mic the piano, and, ideally, be the person controlling the monitor mix (or in a super small room, controlling the FOH mix). When I went to check out a new jazz club about a year ago, the sax and vocals were way above the piano, absurdly so. Even the drums (tiny kit, player using rutes) were buried. Being that it was a medium size room, and a mix of listeners/talkers, I'd have mic'd the piano and drums as well. It was weird listening to standards and hearing sax and vocals only; the piano and drums - when audible - sounded like they were coming through the wall from another room. Obviously the singer and sax player could hear the drums and piano, but out front the 'mix' was bizarre. The classical question ? Not my area of expertise, but from what I've noticed at events: At outdoor venues I've seen several overhead mics placed around the entire ensemble; but at indoor venues not as often. It's likely that for concerto works the piano is mic'd separately. Someone like Cygnus64 would be able to answer the question more precisely.... 'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo. We need a barfing cat emoticon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real MC Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Agree, but what about miking in an ensemble situation? Do you mic it or go completely acoustic? I have a gig I do on a C1 with elec. bass, drums, accordian, trumpet and clarinet. If the drummer isn't playing, I can play at a comfortable volume without any extra amplification, but as soon as the drums are added (and he's not a loud drummer) it seems to bury the piano. So when going from digital to acoustic, do you play with a lot more force or mic the piano? I often wonder, how loud one should be expected to be (do the classical folks in front of an orchestra play on a mic'd piano? ). Our jazz band JUST finished a bunch of sessions in my project studio... Since we play together live as an ensemble, I wanted to isolate the live instruments which would be drums and trumpet. I have no headphone system and no isolation booths so I had to arrange the mics so that the opposing instruments were pointing at the rejection axis. When I checked the playback it worked quite well as there was very little bleed. Anything that used an amp (bass and keys) I took a direct signal and mic'd the amps later via re-amping. As for keys my rhodes was DI'd and I used MIDI playback on my Hammond XK3 or other MIDI devices. I can record the bass amp, leslie, and rhodes amp via re-amping in post-processing after the group recordings are done. If I had a real piano, I would had used a DP during ensemble recording and re-played my parts on the real thing during post-processing. The performers needed to hear me, we didn't use headphones, and a live piano would had been hard to isolate during ensemble playing. The isolation worked real well because I had different processing on different instruments. I have a pretty well stocked project studio with professional digital reverbs, gates, compressors, delays, and EQs. The trumpet needed its own reverb space as did the drums and keys. The drummer was a challenge as he was dynamic (14dB of headroom wasn't enough for that animal!) and I had to gate his tom mics which were picking up the snare. I like separate processing for snare and toms and needed the isolation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adan Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 SF isn't as bad for parking as Manhattan, but it can be pretty bad. With that hassle involved, I'm more inclined to play a sub-par piano than do the shlepp. Fortunatly, the sub-par pianos I play are at least kept in tune. I'm a saloon style piano player anyway, so I've got no reason to complain. Show up on a motorcycle, park in front of the club, walk in, grab a beer, sit down, play. Me likey. Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro Home: Vintage Vibe 64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steveaudio Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 I agree, altho a "real" Rhodes can be a real interesting alternative. But I wouldn't schlep a 100 lb. Stage 73, + amp, if the place had a real piano to play. My PC3-76 has some very nice AP sounds, but I have some issues with the action being so stiff--I think it could turn painful for one's wrists if played a lot. Only "real pianos" I ever had real issues playing, included: A horrible, horrible, young chang that I played 6 nights a week in the '80's. The action was beyond "heavy", or "stiff", it was hard to even press down the keys. (I got carpal tunnel, & quit the gig after a few months). I didn't even mind the out-of-tune uprights, w/in reason. My practice piano, a Yamaha G3, suits me just fine......I bought it in the 80's after owning a little Sohmer spinet (Sohmer not a bad choice for an affordable used practice piano)..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfD Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 If I ever become filthy rich, I'm opening a club with good food, a killer sound system, and a grand piano and Hammond organ on stage. That's exactly what I'm going to do when I retire. The reason I won't test drive a Bentley is because I don't think I'll appreciate my vehicle afterwards. Thankfully, I learned how to play on electronic KBs. So, while I can appreciate playing a nice acoustic piano for what it is, I don't get too bummed out when I have to go back to my facsimile. PD "The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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