Which Keyboard and amp for about 2 grand?

[NeedMoreBass]

All of this talk about the PC361, I just ordered another one!! Nova Music had it for $999 shipped with the ribbon controller which is worth about $100. I'm donating one of them to my church, it'll be a nice upgrade from the old Roland RS9.

Plus they can use the RS9 to drive the PC361 from 88 keys, if they want...

 

They'll never use it that way, the RS9 is going on eBay.

[AnotherScott]

[They'll never use it that way, the RS9 is going on eBay.

You should have no problem finding a buyer for it, it's a pretty desirable board.

[NeedMoreBass]

[They'll never use it that way, the RS9 is going on eBay.

You should have no problem finding a buyer for it, it's a pretty desirable board.

 

Apparently so, I just checked the completed items on eBay and was surprised at what they were selling for.

[resigned]

I don't understand arbitrary budgets when it comes to purchasing a serious pro keyboard rig. Hobbyist, yes - professional, no. It's tax deductable (and so is the interest if you use credit), it's the basis of your reputation and income, it's probably as important a purchase as you can make as a pro musician, plus it'll last you for many years assuming you are buying a new product (you can stay within your "budget" easier by buying used).

 

I can't imagine being stuck with something that "almost" does what you need because you had to stick to a round number. Does the $2k "budget" include the travel case for the keyboard? If not, there goes a dozen more keys!

 

I would shop to find the very best instrument for the job and then work harder to arrange the financing to fit the purchase. $2k is too limiting - another $500 would sure provide some breathing room, and a $3k budget would probably be more realistic once you add accessories.

[AnotherScott]

$2k is too limiting - another $500 would sure provide some breathing room, and a $3k budget would probably be more realistic once you add accessories.

While you can always spend more and get better, and people's financial situations can be very different, it's true that he's kind of right at the cusp of being able to have some other nice options to consider. For ac piano, rhodes, b3, and clav with more than 61 non weighted keys, in his price range, Kurzweil is probably the only option, and he'll have to add something for drawbar control. And it's not a bad choice at all. But it would be nice to be able to at least consider the Nord Electro 3-73 and the Roland VR-700, if for no other reason than the three actions are all so different, and he might really enjoy playing one more than the other.

 

I don't think the budget is necessarily over-limiting... I could see someone comparing the three and deciding they like the Kurz best anyway. But it would be nice to have some more options to consider. Each has its strengths and weaknesses, even just for playing nothing but the 4 sounds he cares about.

[resigned]

Agreed, everyone's budgets are different but the $2k total budget is just on the edge of allowing (or not allowing) many more options, including Korg SV-1 and others already mentioned plus amplification and accessories. Even a Casio PX3 and Hammond SK1 together are within range depending on the amp and stand choices once you break the $2k total budget limit. I'd just like to see more than 61-note options if the money can be stretched.

 

Question: this affects the OP's band obviously - what would they like to see their keyboardist to play? And if it's on the brink of affordability, would they spot him some bread from upcoming gigs to cover it? Just a small example of what creative financing can do.

[AnotherScott]

Amany more options, including Korg SV-1

...

Even a Casio PX3 and Hammond SK1 together

...

like to see more than 61-note options if the money can be stretched

The OP is pretty committed to the basic scenario: a single keyboard, more than 61 keys, but not a weighted action. So I think we've about covered all the options at his price range and a bit beyond!

[Steveaudio]

More vocals only through PA gigs than FOH mix. Have 2 grand. Need light keyboard for 4 sounds. ac piano, rhodes, b3, and clav. 77 key probably good enough, semi weighted, I hate playing organ on weighted keys and didnt mind the action for piano, sitting in on a guy with an electro. Would love to try a kurz, but there are no stores that stock them around me. Dont mind the kurz piano sounds I have heard, as long as I can uncompress it a little. Thought?????

 

I recently bought a used PC3-76 for about $1300, mainly for the AP & EP sounds. They really are terrific. The organs, I think they are very, very good--at least as good as the NE2 I had IMO.

 

I did consider a new SP4-7 instead, but I thought $200-$300 more for a nice used PC3 would be worth it. Finally, I'd pick the Kybd. first--that's hard enough, w/o trying to pick the amp at the same time. Good luck!

 

[Scandel]

OK, I see some pc3's used online guitar center for $1399. I think I found what I want.

 

[Tobias Åslund]

Go for it!

[AnotherScott]

OK, I see some pc3's used online guitar center for $1399. I think I found what I want.

It's a good piece, though for just the 4 sounds you care about, I'm not sure it gives you any real advantage over the SP4-7.

 

If you're going to look at used stuff too, the Nord E3-73 and the Roland VR-700 could end up in budget as well.

 

 

[rockinroller]

After enjoying GeneralMusic's Equinox as a classic rock keyboardist for several years, I test-drove several keyboards recently before deciding on the PC361. Its price coupled with powerful technology and live-performing utility made it a hands-down choice for me. As an avid Hammond/Leslie fan, the PC3's real-time slider/drawbars function coupled with the oh-so-accurate "real" piano and strings sounds that made Kurzweil famous were not matched anywhere else. As I have come to discover now that I've owned and performed on the keyboard for a few months: There really is no end to what you can create and store on this keyboard. If you don't like the factory sound, you can tune one in to your taste and save it easily for subsequent access. And so far Kurz' support has been second to none. There is no more powerful keyboard out there right now under $1000 shipped IMHO.

 

As to live sound--this one's going to shock you (and perhaps many on this forum): a bass combo amp. Yep, that's not a typo: a BASS COMBO AMP! I've gone through probably 30 or 40 live sound applications in my career and always come back to a bass amp (with certain requirements) for the best all around live reproduction of my keys' sounds. In particular the Gallien Krueger (GK) MB series--lightweight but powerful--amps fill the bill. I personally have the flagship MB212 model: twin 12" neodymium drivers and a Piezo tweeter in a 500 watt combo cabinet weighing 38lbs total. I've had Traynor K4s, Peavey KB300s, Crate and Carvin "keyboard" amps and believe me: Nothing--I mean NOTHING--compares as favorably to these GK bass combo amps for punch, power and mobility. I play two keyboards in live performances (my other is the Kurz SP4-7, which I just purchased last week after much research to find the best keybed, lightest professional "real piano"--plus bonus 100+ other sounds) under $1000). The only shortcoming I guess--and it's minor--is that you need an unpowered mixer to have multiple inputs into what usually is a single channel configuration on a "bass" amp. I've used the Behringer Xenyx 802 for that but it had the annoying characteristic of not having an on-off button (you had to unplug the AC adapter to power it off). I'd also get noise (hiss) in certain electrical environments. I switched to a Soundcraft Notepad 102 for a little over $40 (musicians friend) recently and am totally impressed with the quality, quiet operation and yes: an ON-OFF SWITCH!!!

 

So here's my summary recommendation and editorial with regard to your particular interests:

1. The PC361 under $1000 shipped has got to be this year's "Best Buy" in an all around great sounding 61 note keyboard. Subtotal: $950

2. Buy a bass combo amp for live sound reproduction. GK's 4 lightweight bass combo amps: MB112, 115, 210 and 212 (the MB115 at $399 retail is a sweet 200 watt version that'd be great for anything but self-standing medium or larger gigs, up to the $699 retail MB212) are the perfect blend of quality sound, power and mobility. Subtotal: $299-$699

3. Get the Soundcraft Notepad 102 mixer and a set of Mogami 10-15' cables (TRS "balanced" only for the Kurz). Subtotal: $150

 

Get this rig and you'll still have enough dough left over to buy your girlfriend something nice for her birthday.

 

[AnotherScott]

 

I have little doubt that a quality bass combo amp can beat a Traynor, Peavey KB300s, Crate, or Carvin keyboard amp. But some day, you should try putting your rig into a PA cab (you're using a mixer anyway). I like the EV and JBL PRX models best, lots of people also like QSC and RCF, but I bet any of them will sound better (cleaner, more accurate/neutral) than the bass amp with the piezo tweeter (even though some of them may lack the raw volume).

 

Also, if you already own the PC361, the SP4-7 would not be my choice as the second board, as it provide no sounds that are not already in the PC361. You can get any board at all--even one with no sounds--and MIDI It to the PC361, send the MIDI'd sounds to their own Assignable Outs on the PC361, and have essentially the same thing. Choosing another board would allow you--with no sacrifice in sound--to select either

 

* something less expensive, or

 

* something with some other "new" sounds of its own you might enjoy, or

 

* something with a more weighted keybed that would (for most people) be a better complement to the unweighted keybed in the PC361 (i.e. give you something stronger for piano action than the SP4-7).

 

...or all three of those things.

 

A Casio PX3 would be a nice option to consider, as its MIDI control functions give you a very easy and flexible way to access the PC361 sounds you want to trigger from it, directly from its own control panel.

[Ken Beaumont]

Agreed, I own an SP4-7 and in this case, it wouldn't gain you anything other than 15 extra keys. A PX3 would give you more piano like action and it has some decent sounds on its own.

[rockinroller]

There's no way I'd have a "CASIO" brand name on stage, playing professionally. Sorry fellas'. I am sure they have come a long way but there's just that enigma attached to the label.

 

As to playing through a PA system, there's no point in hauling my own (probably 2) cabinets plus a powered mixer and cables if:

 

A. I am ultimately line-out into the main PA anyway, and

B. carrying around two cabinets plus a PA head has got to be more of a pain than one of these GK 35-38lb combo amps, all-in-one.

 

The combination of the SP-4 with the PC361 covers all the bases I'll ever need in terms of sounds. And frankly, playing classic rock, blues, etc. really is absent of any need for "new" sounds anyway. I don't think these two boards are at all alike and for the price I paid for the SP-4 ($850 delivered), that's hardly more than a good Fatar-bed based MIDI controller.

[Dana.]

There's no way I'd have a "CASIO" brand name on stage, playing professionally. Sorry fellas'. I am sure they have come a long way but there's just that enigma attached to the label.

 

The PX-3 has "Privia" written on the back.

[RandyFF]

The best deal going for a pa is an RCF 310a or 312a. It's a 10 or 12" pa speaker thats been discontinued, and has sound quality comparable to $600-$900 speakers (PRX, K series, EXL), but for $400-$450. It's also pretty lightweight and is powered. No mixer on the back though.

 

Bass amp? How does piano sound thru it?

[AnotherScott]

that enigma attached to the label.

stigma ;-) But as d-bon said, it does not advertise it's casio-ness.

 

As to playing through a PA system, there's no point in hauling my own (probably 2) cabinets plus a powered mixer and cables if:

 

A. I am ultimately line-out into the main PA anyway,

That's kind of like saying, I don't need to carry around a guitar cable, because the guitarist has one. You both need them! The fact that the PA has good quality speakers doesn't mean you don't need them as well, regardless of what they're called. PA speakers simply generally make better keyboard amps than dedicated keyboard amps do. Check out what works and how they sound, and don't let it bother you that it happens to be called the same thing as what the PA guy may be using.

 

carrying around two cabinets plus a PA head has got to be more of a pain than one of these GK 35-38lb combo amps, all-in-one.

Sorry that I wasn't clear, I was talking about self-powered PA cabs, no separate head is required. For lightest weight and good sound quality, you could get a single EV ZXa1 that weighs 19 lbs, and will almost certainly sound better than you GK (though almost certainly have less bass and may not go as loud).

[AnotherScott]

The best deal going for a pa is an RCF 310a or 312a. It's a 10 or 12" pa speaker thats been discontinued, and has sound quality comparable to $600-$900 speakers (PRX, K series, EXL), but for $400-$450. It's also pretty lightweight and is powered. No mixer on the back though.

I like the RCFs, probably a bit better than the QSCs, but still find them more colored than EV. Like the QSCs, though, they sure go louder. In fact, I have a 310A and a 410A i'm going to be selling, if anyone is interested. (They sound almost identical, but the 410A is a lot lighter.)

[Jazz+]

I would get a pair of EV SXa-360 powered speakers for $2,000.

33 lbs each, bi-amped 500 watts.

[NeedMoreBass]

I would get a pair of EV SXa-360 powered speakers for $2,000.

33 lbs each, bi-amped 500 watts.

 

I'd get a pair of EV ELX112p's for $1000. 38 lbs, 1000 watts. I had these side by side with the QSC's and the EV's sound better.

[Joe Muscara]

There's no way I'd have a "CASIO" brand name on stage, playing professionally. Sorry fellas'. I am sure they have come a long way but there's just that enigma attached to the label.

Whenever I see a comment like this (word usage and grammar errors aside), I think, "this person is being close-minded, no point in trying to help. I'm out."

[rockinroller]

I'd put up my GK MB212 "bass" combo amp against any of your PA speaker suggestions. The wide range of the PA certainly assists in producing the wide ranges needed for many keyboard-related sounds but when I am pushing my thick Hammond sounds I am grateful to be doing that through bass drivers vs. PA speakers.

 

To the "how's the pianos" questioner: With the pre-EQs capability of the Soundcraft mixer I use coupled with the bass combo amp's 4-band EQ, I get all the exactness I need or could want to replicate the already great Kurzweil pianos. Generally the high and mid-highs a pushed a little--to get the most out of the amp's Piezo, and the low mid is neutral, while the low is almost off.

 

The GK combo amp has a defeat button for the horn too, but with keyboards, mine is always activated, while the high and mid-high EQs are played with to achieve just the right "crispness" and punch.

 

The only liability I have with the GK amp is that it's rectangular--not wedge shaped, so I don't have the opportunity to have it tilt upward toward me when used as a local monitor. I guess a $40 tilt back amp stand would do the trick but it's just another thing to have to buy. I can tell you that when the gig is over, I can literally carry that GK in one hand, have the PC361 in its (Body Glove) case strapped over my other shoulder and I'm carrying its stand with the free hand, and I am pretty much done except for the second keyboard and stand. Plus it all fits behind the rear seats of a Dodge Nitro SUV. Try that with your two cabinets and powered mixer.

[Scandel]

msr400 or elx112p might have to buy 1at a time, btw I Went with the pc3 for the drawbars already on it, polyphony, multitiimbral, and if I hate it, I'll return it and go with a electro 3

[Tobias Åslund]

I think you'll be perfectly happy with the PC3. I don't see an Electro 3 being a better deal for what you want. IMHO the Nord has better acoustic pianos, but on all other areas I think it's a tie. Plus, a PC3 has lot's of sounds an Electro can't produce. And the major issue - an Electro is mono-timbral, meaning there's no way it can produce a good quality piano and a tonewheel organ at same time. So the bang-for-the-buck factor is significantly lower on the Nord - but, it does indeed sound nice! I had one as my main axe for two-and-a-half years

[Dana.]

To the "how's the pianos" questioner: With the pre-EQs capability of the Soundcraft mixer I use coupled with the bass combo amp's 4-band EQ, I get all the exactness I need or could want to replicate the already great Kurzweil pianos. Generally the high and mid-highs a pushed a little--to get the most out of the amp's Piezo, and the low mid is neutral, while the low is almost off.

This is hardly boast-worthy considering you're starting with a three-layer sample that's difficult to coax dynamics and nuance from. I would never use a bass combo to amplify a piano sound unless it was to achieve a highly specific, highly colored sound.

[AnotherScott]

I'd put up my GK MB212 "bass" combo amp against any of your PA speaker suggestions

That's exactly what we're suggesting. Put 'em up against each other and see which sounds better. (Especially for piano.)

 

Plus it all fits behind the rear seats of a Dodge Nitro SUV. Try that with your two cabinets and powered mixer.

I was suggesting a setup as small a one 19 lb cabinet, using the mixer you have now. It would fit in less space and cut 19 lbs off your carry weight. (And no one here has suggested a powered mixer.)

[AnotherScott]

msr400 or elx112p might have to buy 1at a time, btw I Went with the pc3 for the drawbars already on it, polyphony, multitiimbral, and if I hate it, I'll return it and go with a electro 3

The PC3 is a great piece, and more capable than the Electro 3 overall.

 

For your particular needs--"ac piano, rhodes, b3, and clav"--personally, I'd sat the Nord is better for ac piano and organ, the Kurz is better for EP, and I'm not sure about the clavs, I've hardly played them, and I use them so little that I'm not fussy. The Kurz does have a big advantage in that you can split and layer sounds, instead of being limited to one at a time. Since you talked about liking that it was multitimbral (as all the Kurz models we've talked about are), I take it that has some value to you, so you'll probably be very happy with it!

 

Other than that, the biggest remaining advantage of the Nord is probably that you can load custom samples in it. The Kurz has numerous other features, like VA synth and extensive MIDI controller capabilities.

[JeffLearman]

Plus it all fits behind the rear seats of a Dodge Nitro SUV. Try that with your two cabinets and powered mixer.

Nobody said "two cabinets and powered mixer."

 

We're talking about a single powered PA speaker, smaller than your GK. Admittedly, not as much bass, so for keyboard players who are playing without a bass player, maybe not the best solution. Definitely better for piano.

[Dave Ferris]

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