EV ZXa1 directionality question

[Tobias Åslund]

Yes, behind this cryptic subject, there another powered speaker thread - sorry for that! ...but I have a specific EV question I haven't seen adressed elsewhere.

 

I am really interested in adding a pair of ZXa1's to my rig. Besides all the positive comments in this forum, it seems to me - when comparing to RCF's and QSC's they seem to have the best weight/sound quality/price ratio.

 

Now to the question: in that big german online music store I buy a lot of my gear from - there are two versions of the ZXa1: the ZXa1-100 and ZXa1-90. The difference between the two seem to be the directionality of the waveguide horn. The ZXa1-100 has a 100°x 100° spread pattern, while the ZXa1-90 has a rotatable 90°x 50° horn.

So - all you ZXa users out there - which version do you have and why? I'm really not to sure which would be better for on stage monitor use. I guess there's a smaller sweet spot with the 90°x 50°, but on the other hand I guess there are some applications where you want more directed speakers. Which version would you go for?

[AnotherScott]

The advantage of the 100 is that it sounds the most consistent over the widest area (i.e. you can be further off-axis horizontally and especially vertically before losing highs). Also, you get the same response whether you're using it horizontally or vertically. Whether that's a blessing or a curse depends on the situation, and is the reason you could prefer the 90 x 50. With the 90 x 50, high end response will quickly drop as you move off-axis in the 50 degree direction. In a stage monitor application, this can be useful for feedback control, and to prevent other players from hearing as much from your monitor as you might like to hear as the player. If you're using it for mains, you may want to be a little more precise in determining the height and angle of the speaker with the 50 degree dispersion, but again, assuming you do that, you may minimize feedback, as you are potentially not directing high frequencies to areas outside your listeners' ears.

 

I personally use a 100. In my situation, feedback is rarely an issue, and I feel that with the 100, placement is not as critical, as it naturally sounds its best over a wider area, and I like that I don't have to pay attention to whether I place it vertically or horizontally, since sometimes I don't know where/how it's going to be placed until I get to the venue. That said, as long as you're aiming either of them at your ears, I don't think you'd notice any kind of night and day difference between them. If you're using them for mains as opposed to monitors, there would be a similar benefit to the 100 in that you kind of don't have to much thought into how your placing/angling them... though they may be more prone to feedback than the 90s. Especially if you do the common trick of angling the mains in a bit to the stage to try to also use them a bit as monitors when doing a small, fast setup.

[Tobias Åslund]

Thank you for the quick and detailed response!

 

The feedback issue might be a reason to get the ZX1a-90 then - I do some backup vocals and vocoding in two of my bands, and with my current (cheap-ass) monitors, I have some feedback problems from time to time.

I will most probably have the speakers on stands, not on the floor, so I might not have sweet spot issues anyway.

[stillplaying]

I noticed the 90 Vs 100 thing a few months back and looked into it. IMO you should go with the 100 - unless they are only ever going to be used as onstage monitors for you or one person at a time.

 

Monitor feedback problems:

 

How sensitive a mic are you using to drive your vocoder?

What gets fed back into your personal onstage monitor?

 

The mix in your personal monitor should have the vocoder at a much lower level compared to your keyboards than what's going out through the main PA.

 

Same with harmonisers. Too sensitive a mic and too much of the harmonised feed in the onstage monitors and it can quickly become an issue.

 

You can have it singing away mixed loud out front - but not in the monitors.

[RedLeo]

I myself bought a ZXA1 a couple of months ago and faced the same question. I went for the 90x50 on the grounds that it isn't a really loud speaker and would be best used as a personal monitor, so I felt that a tighter pattern would be better. However, one of the bands I currently work with is a Nightwish tribute band, which is both quite loud and requires very high quality keyboard reproduction. In rehearsal I cranked the ZXA1 and found that the sound easily filled the room and didn't really appear to be coming from a point source. It was very impressive, and the entire band were quite as amazed as I was. I suspect that the difference between the spread patterns of the two different models may be less marked in reality than it appears on paper. However, as far as gigging goes, I have only so far used the ZXA1 on quieter gigs and can't say how it responds in louder situations.

[Cadmann]

The QSC's seem to get the most widespread rave reviews in this forum, but I put a lot of stock in your A/B comparison of them against the EV, AnotherScott. The acoustic piano sounds are the Achilles heel of just about all combo amps and some powered speakers. Do you find the QSC's reproduction of piano to be unsatisfactory, or do you find it good but just not as good as the EV? (I don't know how I could do my on comparison without buying both and returning one.)

[Cadmann]

Forgot to add -- if I decided on QSC I'd get the 10. I know you used an 8 in the comparison. Do you think that would make a noticeable difference with piano sounds?

 

 

[AnotherScott]

Do you find the QSC's reproduction of piano to be unsatisfactory, or do you find it good but just not as good as the EV?

 

Boy, that's a real subjective judgment call. Everything is relative. If I hadn't heard the K8 against the EV, maybe I would have been perfectly happy with the K8. I've certainly gigged with worse stuff over the years, and not given it a thought. I mean, I used to use the first generation JBL Eon 10 and was reasonably happy with it at the time, yet if I A/B'd them today, I expect that I'd think the K8 blew it away.

 

It's like many keyboards themselves... it starts to become a decision of how it compares to what's available, because none of it is perfect to begin with. People used to be very happy to gig with a Kurzweil K1000 piano or a Nord Electro 2 organ, and even though they sound the same today, lots more players would likely be dissatisfied with them.

 

So anyway, no, the QSC does not sound awful by any means. It's not like I'd dread gigging if that's all I had available! And you're right, piano is the achilles heal of all these things... and by the same token, I'm not gigging with a laptop and Ivory or whatever, I"m not starting with the best possible piano sound to begin with. We're always making trade-offs of some kind. I'd say the QSC is certainly usable, and you probably won't notice its flaws on anything other than piano.

 

To put this in some additional perspective, I didn't simply A/B the QSC and EV... I did an A/B/C comparison of the QSC, the EV, and the Behringers I had previously been using. (I had been using the B212A, and in some cases for monitors, B208D, which apart from less bass and less total output, seemed to have the identical sonic character). The Behringers are really quite decent sounding overall. I actually decided I would not take the QSC over the Behringer. But I don't mean that as a knock on QSC... as I've mentioned (and taken heat for) in other messages some time back, I like the Behringer speakers. And the QSC will presumably be more reliable, probably play louder, and has more inputs, so I'm not saying the QSC is no better than the Behringer. But IMO, it does not sound any better, and for the price difference, you could travel with an extra Behringer! To my ears, they both only reveal their real weakness on piano, and that's where the EV was noticeably better than either.

 

As for the K10, I've never heard one. I would be surprised if piano sounded noticeably better, since the sonic character of the K series is supposed to be pretty consistent, but I have no first-hand experience there.

[Tobias Åslund]

Great input everyone - thanks! I will probably go with the 90x50 speaker as well, as I still think I want a more focused soundfield. The fact that the horn is rotatable seems like a nice thing too.

[zoooombiex]

FWIW, I have the ZXA1, K10, and K12, and I've compared them on piano.

 

From a purely tonal perspective, I thought the ZXA1 sounded the best with piano. Even on the deep low end, it had a nice tight sound that was very full but not boomy. I was surprised given the 8" speakers, but it really sounded great. Same through the mids and high end - it wasn't harsh at all and sounded very accurate.

 

The K10 and K12 sounded very good though. I'm sure you could try them by themselves and not really think twice about. It was only in a direct comparison that it was noticeable. The difference might also be less obvious in a band context.

 

The main drawback of the ZXA1 is it is a bit quiet by comparison, with more limited inputs and controls. But it's also tiny and extremely light, so that's nice.

[Tobias Åslund]

I just ordered two ZXa1-90b - can't weight to get them set up at the rehearsal space!

[NBrooks]

Interesting thread - I'm considering a ZXa1. Got a few question, which I know have been touched in in other threads (with mixed conclusions), but I would appreciate some thoughts:

(1) I've heard there's a static hiss which is annoying at low volumes. Is this true, and if so would it make the speaker inappropriate for home use?

(2) How does it cope with unbalanced signals?

 

I want something that will do a great piano sound, has a hifi quality, and I can put on the floor in the apartment under my NE3HP. I'm hoping this will fit the bill.

 

thanks!

[HammondDave]

I used two EV SAX 360's and they blew away everything on stage, including Marshall's. Best sound quality amps for keyboards.

 

[SpikeKeys]

I never heard a hiss from mine, and I sometimes use unbalanced signals. The sound and power are amazing from such a small speaker. I use it with a Hammond SK1 and a Nord Stage 2.

 

Spike

[Michelle ggurl]

Another vote here for EV ZXA1's sonic superiority. I, too, A/B'd them against K10 and K8 and it was the clear winner for me. Much quieter though, so that's something to consider for your own personal needs. It's ample for what I do. I have the 100 version so can't speak to the directionality issue of the 90.

[Jazzwee]

Geekgurl, I'm considering upgrading to the EV ZXA1's but I may not be able to try them beforehand.

 

So let me ask you questions.

 

I always hear the Volume issue. How large of a venue can this handle? I presume you have a pair? I'll probably be playing similar stuff (piano).

 

How would you characterize the difference between this and the QSC's as far as piano sound?

 

What's your opinion on Stereo vs. Mono on the types of gigs you do?

[Michelle ggurl]

I only play mono. I use a Kurzweil PC2, which is semi-weighted (long story with my arm issue and difficulty finding a weighted keyboard, other than acoustic piano, that doesn't flare up the condition, so the PC suits me fine for now).

 

I've managed to play outdoor private parties with it, as well as indoor venues that hold anywhere from probably 30 to 300 people. It's been fine for all those applications. I usually fly it on a pole behind me.

 

The K series has more power, but it sounds more strident. I think it sounds boxier ... keep in mind I use "boxy" broadly, meaning that I think everything sounds boxy except an acoustic piano itself.

[Jazzwee]

Well I use a Stagepas 300 right now and it's worse than boxy. It's like I'm inside a tin can...

 

So you're just doing it with a single EV SXA1. That's really inexpensive.

 

Since mostly I'm playing in a band setting (middle-to-upper) and staying away from the bass player, I don't think I need to worry about bass so much.

 

I hear the term "boomy" on the bass and on the Stagepas, it is definitely boomy when you're next to the speaker. And it's really irritating to hear because I feel like I'm louder than the bass player.

 

Maybe I should just buy 1 EV ZXA1 and try it out first...

[Mark Schmieder]

My bandleader bought one after borrowing mine, and we've used it at a few jazz gigs now, both with and without live drums. I can't remember if we've used it outdoors yet or not though.

 

This is by far our favourite monitor for digital piano and most sampled sources, but not the best for B3 organ. As my bandleader is a heavy B3 player (though using digital recreations thereof), he tends to make the E/V vs. Roland KC500 vs. Peavey vs. Yorkville decision based on the ratio of organ to piano to e-piano material in the set for any given gig, as well as the size of the venue.

 

As for positioning, we tend to orient it vertically if it's on a chair and horizontally if directly on the floor, tilted upwards.

 

Coverage seems very even compared to other monitors we have worked with, and monitoring within the full band evidences the least masking of problematic frequency ranges using the E/V than any other point source.

[Jazzwee]

Mark, I noticed you say monitoring. So this isn't used as a primary sound source?

 

For my purposes, it will be the only sound source. BTW do you have a pair or just a single one?

 

How do you compare the volume vs. the Roland KC500, etc.?

[AUSSIEKEYS]

Have been considering these for a while..

 

the most important thing to me is how do they handle vocals with piano.

 

Do those who use them here, have a need to use these for vocal out front..ie two on stands being used for piano and vocals as front of house...

 

my idea is to use these for front of house on small solo/duo gigs, supplementing them for larger gigs with a bass sub

 

vocals to me very important even before keys [lets face it all modern speakers are still going to handle keys well ]

 

so the vocal handling ability is my first importance..then piano then using in certain situations with midi files [well bite my tongue]

 

any help advice from owners of these.

 

[these are hardish to find here Downunder...like most things now, so even trying one out eluded me when they first appeared]

 

edit: oh I did find one place with them but it was a very small sound shop, no keyboards to try there, and lugging in keyboard was not appropriate there, tried vocals with it but in a small sound room it was impossible to tell [in those situations everything you try sounds loud and impressive] especially without a piano to play, and like most sound people they love to play some CD to show it off....what good is that..I am no DJ ., my vocals, piano and midifiles are not compressed and mastered...

[AUSSIEKEYS]

Ohh yess

 

one thing that was a bit non impressive was the handhold.

 

great it had one but...it was at such a weird angle I imagine it easily slides out of your hand on a long load in...about the only thing that has put me off searching again..although I'd probably get a bag for it.

 

anyone comment on that hanndle/hand hold as its not really a handle.

[Tobias Åslund]

vocals to me very important even before keys [lets face it all modern speakers are still going to handle keys well ]

 

so the vocal handling ability is my first importance..then piano then using in certain situations with midi files [well bite my tongue]

 

I would say it's the other way around - most speakers handle vocals well, but keys are more tricky - especially piano. So I would say that if it your piano sounds sound good through them, vocals will surely do too.

 

I haven't got my EV's yet, but as soon as I do, I'll post a small review here.

[AnotherScott]

vocals to me very important even before keys [lets face it all modern speakers are still going to handle keys well ]

I tend to agree with Mr T that it's tougher to get something that sounds good for piano than for vocals. But yes, I think vocals sound very nice through the EV.

 

they love to play some CD to show it off....what good is that..I am no DJ ., my vocals, piano and midifiles are not compressed and mastered...

Check out the TC Helicon pedals. They make your voice sound more "studio polished" in a live setting. I use the Voicetone Correct, but you can get other pedals from them that can do comparable sound enhancement without the pitch correction if you don't care about that.

[Tobias Åslund]

I audition speakers with piano, organ and Toto's "I will remember" If they all sound good the speaker passed the test! My cheap chinese 100W 8" passed - Behringer's 208D did not - it sounded like an AM-radio in comparison...

[Mark Schmieder]

I use the term monitoring for all purposes when it comes to smaller stage settings. Unlike my 80's band, my jazz band uses its on-stage sound reinforcement as the house sound as well as personal monitoring.

 

The Roland KC500 is much larger and so delivers way more bass at higher volumes. As bass is difficult outdoors, this can sometimes be a blessing in spite of the sonic inferiority. It all depends on the gig, the set list, whether the bass guitar is also going through that system or just keys, etc.

 

We did a few gigs earlier where someone stood in on vocals for a few songs. Genres included jazz, r&b/soul, and rock/country/etc. The E/V was used each time.

 

The E/V really sounds great for vocals, and can deliver vocals and keys at the same time with no masking.

 

Much to my surprise, as the Roland didn't have XLR inputs I had to quickly jury-rig my bass setup to cover the sax player last Saturday and later a one-song-only stand-in harmonica player who also sang. I pumped everything through my Summit Audio 2BA-221 hybrid pre-amp with the bass going to the solid state line in, and the mic going to the tube/solid-state hybrid mic in, with the blend pumping out to my Bergantino iP112ER powered 12" cabinet. Pure bliss! The sax was crisp with no harshness and everything sounded smooth as silk and very natural.

 

In this respect, the Bergie way outperformed the E/V, but it's also a 12" vs. 8" speaker and about six times the cost.

[Mark Schmieder]

Oh, as for "how many", this goes back to the never-ending mono vs. stereo "discussion" that keeps popping up here. :-)

 

I go mono-only for the most part. That way everybody gets good sound instead of just a few people in the sweet spots.

[AnotherScott]

My cheap chinese 100W 8" passed - Behringer's 208D did not - it sounded like an AM-radio in comparison...

Interesting! What cheap Chinese speakers are those? Apart from the obvious weaknesses on the low end, I thought the 208D really didn't sound bad. Not nearly as good as the EV ZXA1, but apart from bass and max output level, I wouldn't put them far from the QSC K8, unless my memory is deceiving me...

[AUSSIEKEYS]

Thanks for all replies on vocals...sucking in all the info...bring it on KC

 

For me...Well it comes down to what is more important to you...

 

To me my voice is my "personal" instrument...it is easily altered by the speakers and the microphone...I put that over picking a system for keys. Sure keys are incredibly important too, but some/many of us on here are singer/piano players and do have a further interest in these systems.

 

Although in most cases I agree that a good system for keys will sound good for vocals [hence why i am on a thread likev this asking], I dont agree that it is cut and dried.

 

A vocalist / piano player has two further needs, a good input [microphone] and a good vocal output [speakers] in between is your own fault hah., and also its use to make his keys sound good.

 

example many muso's like to swear by the SM58 mic [simply i think because it got a good name in the early days]...but when going to buy a new mic years ago, ironically i sounded better thru a more modern Shure mic where my dad who purchased at the same time sounded better thru the SM58 than the mic i bought.

 

There is only one of me so its not cut and dried to say all singers will sound good thru SM58's, ...everyones voice obviously is different...

 

whereas Keyboard B will sound like another Keyboard B [infact like a 1000 keyboard B's] so you have a standard to go by when buying a system. If you buy a brand x sound system all Keyboard B's all around the world are gonna sound the same on the same system [putting faulty manufacture aside],

 

So where it may seem cut and dried to say a good keyboard system will sound good for a vocalist its a pretty broad statement...yes it will or may but like the microphone purchase above it may not.

 

If we were talking amplifying acoustic piano then I would say this comparison is similar to a vocalist..ie Acoustic Piano A may not sound the same as a seemingly identical Acoustic Piano A that your mate owns., but Keyboard B will definately sound the same as Keyboard B that joe down the road owns.[taking this broadly..sure components in keyboards sometimes got changed but lets not get to carried away relating back to a JX8p discussion]...keyboard B is a keyboard B in theory]

 

as mentioned earlier in this thread above by others that many of these systems are very close now a days that it comes to a personal determination rather than brand x sucks, then its obvious that all systems [the ones we talk about on here..that is] have come so far in quality and abities that many here have concluded that the differences are not that much..and as such usually "state you may like it "

 

I conclude from that , that these systems have achieved that level of competance that players here can like [so they are good quality now]...but its rarely addressed on here whether these systems are ideal or compliment the singer/piano player which i think is a rather large slab of players on here too, enough to figure some feedback on the subject is indeed hand in hand with sound reproduction for keys.

 

So saying most keyboard systems will be fine for vocalists I do actually agree with...

 

but a human voice is indivdual a manufactured keyboard B is not [there is 1000 identical keyboard B's out there] so feedback would be great from those that do both...sure then my saying that everyones voice is individual makes it impossible to say which is better...but here we are looking for "the vibe" on the subject...possibly a place to start.

 

For instance my interest is high on these EV's [i want one errr two actually..i think] ..all I am trying to find out is how these cut it for vocals before they need a sub..size rooms you've played, do you think you vocals sound boxy, round or pointy [generalised but descriptive enough] , any feelings that I cannot glean in a little DJ's sales room.

 

phew not sure if I made this understandable but give it ago

[B. J. Love]

Going back to the OP's question: 90X50 vs 100X100. I've pretty much decided to go with a pair of ZXA1s over the QSC K8s, the reasons aren't important, but I'm still struggling with the 90 vs 100 thing.

 

I play two kinds of gigs at present: Keys in a blues band and solo vox & piano like Aussiekeys - in my case all 30s & 40s standards. The blues band plays mostly small to medium clubs; I go thru the main PA in the larger clubs and outdoor venues. The solo act is mostly dinner music in restaurants and corporate background.

 

So 90 or 100, more opinions?