Is it worth buying a real Hammond?

[Odyssian]

Interesting responses. Thanks again for your input, everyone. Judging from the amount of positive replies regarding clonewheels, I'm now wondering if it would make more sense to go that route and buy a real Leslie to fed it through?

 

What Leslie would you recommend for someone on a budget? Would a Motion Pro model sound as nice as a Leslie?

 

 

[MoKen]

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Ventilator

[CEB]

On a shoestring budget I think it would depends on what turns up in a used gear search. With the clones and their built in overdrive circuits you may be able to find a good solidstate leslie with a big power amp and get some decent tones. I bought an 860 for $400 and it has a really loud 200 watt amp and the heavy duty Atlas horn driver. That is stock. It is a little lacking for low end but it rolled straight into my old Taurus wagon I had. Since it was an 11-pin leslie the control pannel on the XB-2 directly controlled the leslie speed.

 

FWIW - these new leslie sims do sound pretty good. I use a real leslie only because it is paid for and I am an old fart who is sort of set in his ways.

 

Plus used you do not get killed on depreciation though the tax write-off you carry over to Schedule C is nice.

[Josh Paxton]

(The obvious difference: If you get a Hammond and decide you hate it, you can always sell it. I hear they frown on that with kids.)

 

On the plus side, a Hammond will do what you ask and it won't argue with you about it.

 

I think there are many of us here who would strongly disagree with that. If you've never played a temperamental Hammond that didn't behave like it was supposed to, then either you've been exceedingly lucky, or you haven't played many.

 

Interestingly, I think this post has persuaded me not to have children (kinda been on the fence about that).

 

Wow. Well I'm glad my advice had some effect, even if it wasn't quite what I intended! "Wait, you mean having a kid is as much work as owning a Hammond?!? Well forget it then!"

 

What Leslie would you recommend for someone on a budget? Would a Motion Pro model sound as nice as a Leslie?

 

Nope. If you want convenience, use a Ventilator or a clone with a good internal Leslie sim. If you want real moving air, get a Leslie. IMO, the Motion Sound stuff gives you not enough of either.

[Jim Alfredson]

I never cared for the Motion Sound stuff personally. I would get an XK3c and move some air with a used 122 or 147. You can pick one up cheap if you keep your eyes open. But the Leslie sim in the XK3c is really good. You could get by with that without any problems.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: chops are unnecessary now.

[CEB]

Kids are great! ...usually but the bad incidents seem fade to from my memory quicker than the good times. They are well worth the sacrifice.

[Bill H.]

 

1. I'm a die hard fan of 70s progressive rock, which of course, is loaded with GREAT Hammond sounds.

 

2. My new music project is based on the above.

 

 

I plan to make use of distortion. What's the best way to do that with an M3? Just crank the volume up full? Use a effect pedeal, or guitar amp?

In a lot of cases the distortion you are hearing on your favorite classic and prog rock tracks is caused by holding down a low note and letting it "break up" a riff or chord naturally. You just can't do this on the 3 1/2 octave M3 keyboards. You are going to end up being very frustrated trying to play prog on a Hammond spinet.

 

I also would like a Leslie effect. Would a Motion Pro be suitable? Would a "virtual" Leslie be suitable?

No on the Motion Sound, yes on a virtual Leslie if it's a Ventilator. But they're expensive.

I'd like to keep the costs down, otherwise I'd go for the real thing.

OK here's my suggestion. This project isn't even off the ground yet. You haven't even really got started. Download VB3 and use that with your Triton as a controller for now. It's sound rivals a $2500 Hammond XK3c. Then go hardware if things start happening for you. There are many threads on the VB3 in the forum if you haven't heard about it.

[Odyssian]

Okay, so no go on the Motion Pro. I used to own a Korg G4 Leslie sim. How much better is the Ventilator?

 

How good is the Korg CX3? Wouldn't that be the same as the organ sounds on my Triton Extreme with MOSS?

 

 

[CrimsonianKing]

Okay, so no go on the Motion Pro. I used to own a Korg G4 Leslie sim. How much better is the Ventilator?

 

How good is the Korg CX3? Wouldn't that be the same as the organ sounds on my Triton Extreme with MOSS?

 

 

Like i said before, if you really want something that sounds like a b3, forget Triton's organ patches, I own one and have to be honest with you, i'm sorry but they don't sound good at all.

 

Some of the best clones out there (that i can remember off the top of my head) :

 

Hammond XK3

 

Nord Electro 3

 

KeyB

 

Numa

 

There's also a new Hammond coming out : Hammond SK1

And a new Roland clone coming out as well : Roland VR-700

 

Digital ones :

 

VB3

 

Native Instruments B4

 

I never tried the Korg G4 , but i believe the Ventilator still is the best leslie sim. on the market, i also happen to own one and i'm very happy with it. (I've never tried the Korg CX3, so i can't say much about it)

 

Hope this helps you.

 

 

[Skinny]

And a new Roland clone coming out as well : Roland VR-700

 

That's been out for a while, and it's a POS.

 

IMHO, of course.

[CrimsonianKing]

And a new Roland clone coming out as well : Roland VR-700

 

That's been out for a while, and it's a POS.

 

IMHO, of course.

 

Oh, is it? I thought i saw it on NAMM this year, i guess it was 2010 not 2011.

[Skinny]

Yeah, there's been one sitting on the salesfloor of one of our local music stores since they came out. I just noticed yesterday they marked it down to $1799. I noodled around with it for about a minute again yesterday and I thought to myself, "Yep, still sucks."

[Odyssian]

Thanks.. Although all these new clone wheels are probably very nice, I'm shooting for a budget level (but good sounding) setup.

 

The software aspect isn't something I've considered before. I don't own a laptop, so that would mean toting around my Mac G4 desktop. I'm not sure I'm hip to the idea. And that leads to another question. How many reading this actually gig/practice using software synths?

 

Wow...how did I ever get from considering a vintage Hammond rig, to running software synths? I guess the new millennium IS here. Where's my flying car?

[Odyssian]

Once again, I'd like to say thanks to all for your responses. There is some fantastic and thoughtful info above.

[Meisenhower]

If you're on a tight budget, look for a Nord Electro 2. Lots of bang for your buck!

[Rocket Man 2]

If you have the place for it, I'd say get yourself an M3 or M100, they can be had for close to nothing. Be aware that they can be quite addictive and soon you might want a leslie... and a full console...

 

+1

 

You won't spend much, and you'll get a feel for what the real thing is all about.

 

Understand that you probably won't move it around much, (unless you're young, strong, and have a bunch of friends to help you.)

[Rocket Man 2]

I have a chopped M3 that I used in the 70's, of which the guts currently reside within a Chamberlin console, and the double keyboard sits on top. To do this, I created a five foot multi-pin snake to allow the keyboard manuals to be plugged into / unplugged from the guts. Thus, I was able to divide the weight into two parcels. PM me if you have further interest in how to do this.

[Odyssian]

In a lot of cases the distortion you are hearing on your favorite classic and prog rock tracks is caused by holding down a low note and letting it "break up" a riff or chord naturally. You just can't do this on the 3 1/2 octave M3 keyboards. You are going to end up being very frustrated trying to play prog on a Hammond spinet.

 

 

I saw on Youtube that there is a mod where you can lower the M3's lower manual one octave. Hopefully this would help with that technique. Hopefully it's not a difficult mod.

[mate stubb]

Ody, what part of the US are you in?

 

In the midwest, spinets like the M-100 or M-3 can be had for anywhere from free to $200.

 

But an older console model like a CV can be only $300 - $500. They are not worth moving around to gig but they are more than worth it for home.

 

I've owned consoles all my life and could not live with the limitations of a spinet.

[BluesB3]

I'm now wondering if it would make more sense to go that route and buy a real Leslie to fed it through?

Would a Motion Pro model sound as nice as a Leslie?

 

Yes. Better a clone thru a real Leslie than a real Hammond thru an emulator.

 

No.

[Odyssian]

Ody, what part of the US are you in?

 

In the midwest, spinets like the M-100 or M-3 can be had for anywhere from free to $200.

 

But an older console model like a CV can be only $300 - $500. They are not worth moving around to gig but they are more than worth it for home.

 

I've owned consoles all my life and could not live with the limitations of a spinet.

 

I'm in south-central USA... Right next to that big cactus over yonder. Care for a sasparilla?

 

What is it about the spinets that you don't like? Is it mainly the shorter keyboards that you don't care for?

 

 

 

[mate stubb]

Shorter keyboards, diving board keys (except M-3), lack of upper foldback, weak vibrato (L-100 series).

 

The only spinet I would own, if I didn't have room for a console, is the M-3.

[Polkahero]

Another drawback about spinets is the manuals are offset. If you're going for the real thing, wait for a deal on a console model. I only paid $50 for my A100. Check estate sales and watch CL like a hawk! Should be deals in your area.

[rod76]

Odyssian: M-100 are fine Hammonds and you won't be dissapointed. Half of them already have Leslie controls installed but you can also add a direct line-out and have loads of fun.

[JMcS]

Another drawback about spinets is the manuals are offset.

 

To clarify, the middle C's line up. The upper manual has a few more keys to the right of middle C and the lower manual has a few more to the left. To some degree they just left the keys that are used least off.

[CrimsonianKing]

Another drawback about spinets is the manuals are offset. If you're going for the real thing, wait for a deal on a console model. I only paid $50 for my A100. Check estate sales and watch CL like a hawk! Should be deals in your area.

 

A A100 for 50$ in working condition? I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Unfortunately there are no deals like that in my area, there's a M3 for 250$, i thought of buying it but decided not to.

[Polkahero]

Another drawback about spinets is the manuals are offset. If you're going for the real thing, wait for a deal on a console model. I only paid $50 for my A100. Check estate sales and watch CL like a hawk! Should be deals in your area.

 

A A100 for 50$ in working condition? I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Unfortunately there are no deals like that in my area, there's a M3 for 250$, i thought of buying it but decided not to.

 

What's amazing is it sat for two full days at an estate sale priced at $200. I showed up the second day when everything was half off, and it was still there so I figured by that point nobody wanted it. I offered the estate brokers the $50 after the sale and they accepted. The organ would have probably gone to the dumpster if I hadn't called. Only issues were scratchy drawbars and some missing harmonics here and there which I've since fixed. The finish is living room quality as it sat in the house for nearly 50 years!

[Odyssian]

Yeow! Congrats on a great deal!

[CrimsonianKing]

Another drawback about spinets is the manuals are offset. If you're going for the real thing, wait for a deal on a console model. I only paid $50 for my A100. Check estate sales and watch CL like a hawk! Should be deals in your area.

 

A A100 for 50$ in working condition? I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Unfortunately there are no deals like that in my area, there's a M3 for 250$, i thought of buying it but decided not to.

 

What's amazing is it sat for two full days at an estate sale priced at $200. I showed up the second day when everything was half off, and it was still there so I figured by that point nobody wanted it. I offered the estate brokers the $50 after the sale and they accepted. The organ would have probably gone to the dumpster if I hadn't called. Only issues were scratchy drawbars and some missing harmonics here and there which I've since fixed. The finish is living room quality as it sat in the house for nearly 50 years!

 

Lucky you! I can probably find some L-100 or similar for a 100$, but not an A-100 around here. I'm always looking at the local craigslist (have done some selling/buying/trading myself) but wasn't aware of state sales, i mean, of course i knew they existed, but never thought about looking at them as well. Thanks, i'll be searching for estate sales in my area and who knows what i might find.

 

Edit : a question, were you able to try it out and make sure everything was working at the estate sale?

[Polkahero]

Another drawback about spinets is the manuals are offset. If you're going for the real thing, wait for a deal on a console model. I only paid $50 for my A100. Check estate sales and watch CL like a hawk! Should be deals in your area.

 

A A100 for 50$ in working condition? I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Unfortunately there are no deals like that in my area, there's a M3 for 250$, i thought of buying it but decided not to.

 

What's amazing is it sat for two full days at an estate sale priced at $200. I showed up the second day when everything was half off, and it was still there so I figured by that point nobody wanted it. I offered the estate brokers the $50 after the sale and they accepted. The organ would have probably gone to the dumpster if I hadn't called. Only issues were scratchy drawbars and some missing harmonics here and there which I've since fixed. The finish is living room quality as it sat in the house for nearly 50 years!

 

Lucky you! I can probably find some L-100 or similar for a 100$, but not an A-100 around here. I'm always looking at the local craigslist (have done some selling/buying/trading myself) but wasn't aware of state sales, i mean, of course i knew they existed, but never thought about looking at them as well. Thanks, i'll be searching for estate sales in my area and who knows what i might find.

 

Edit : a question, were you able to try it out and make sure everything was working at the estate sale?

 

This is the website where I found it. Looks like plenty of sales in Florida although most of the older people that owned these that have retired to Florida probably didn't bring along their heavy Hammonds! I did try out the organ at the sale and noticed a few things but knew they would be easily fixable based on my other A100. Oh, did I mention that one is in my possession for nothing?! Now if I could only find Leslies that cheap. . .