Effects Pedal Order

[RocketRobinson]

Hey again, my fretty friends- and thanks for recent post answers to my "blues" tone question, which were hugely helpful. I have decided to add an overdrive/compressor, looking at maybe a Route 66 pedal to my array to achieve the tone I want in some of the small clubs where I can't "dime out" my amp-just too much volume for the room. My current gear: Les Paul 60's re-issue and a 69' strat with original single coils, Fender DeVille 4/10; effects: Roland GR-20, MXR phase 90, MXR distortion, Cry Baby, Boss Flanger BF3, Boss Chorus CR5, DigiTech Delay X, and a tuner. So, are there any definate NO NO NO's to keep in mind order of effects? The roland has to come first. THANKS ALL!

[Griffinator]

If you're using distortion pedals to simulate the gain you'd get out of the amp at 10, then put them last.

 

That said, any delay or other time effects would be better served in the FX loop if one is available.

[RocketRobinson]

Thanks, Griff- yes, there is an effects loop.

[Caevan O’Shite]

What Grif said; plus- personally, I like putting a wah before any distortion or overdrive, 'cause I like the way filter-effects like wah effect the character of the overdrive/distortion in a vocal, vowelly, peaky way; but some people prefer the smoother, more EQ-control like sound of putting such filter effects after overdrive or distortion.

 

And in general (just in case you happen to try one), fuzzes very often work best first in line, with nothing else between them and your guitar- including seemingly 'transparent' buffers, preamps, clean-boosts... some fuzzes work fine being fed from another device but these are generally the exception and not the rule among vintage-style fuzz pedals.

 

All that being said, there really are no rules or no-nos as long as it sounds right to YOU.

[desertbluesman]

My $.02 put the reverb or other pedals like delay or Phaser last in the chain. I would say compressors first then your distortion stomps and then modulation devices last especially the reverb pedal.

[Winston Psmith]

Rule of thumb, or whatever appendage you prefer, goes Wah-OD-Mod (Phaser/Flanger/Chorus)-Delay/Rev. If you do decide to get a Compressor, that should go after the Wah, but before the OD/Dist.

 

If the GR has a Guitar Send/Return loop, you might want to put your Wah, Comp & OD pedals in that loop, unless you really want to add distortion to your synth sounds - run your mod effects after the synth Out, and put your Delay in the amp's FX loop.

 

I have two Roland GR synths, and that's how I tend to run my system. BTW, which guitar has the GK pup? That'll make a big difference in your overall tone, too.

[RocketRobinson]

Thanks, all, and yes, WPs, the synth is on the fender. Thanks for the tip on the Roland, yes, it does have the effects loop. I will experiement with that, too.

[Larryz]

I like a compression pedal in front of any distortion or overdrive...really increases the sustain time...the rest can be experimented with...IMHO.

[pinkjimiphoton]

Rule of thumb, or whatever appendage you prefer, goes Wah-OD-Mod (Phaser/Flanger/Chorus)-Delay/Rev. If you do decide to get a Compressor, that should go after the Wah, but before the OD/Dist.

 

If the GR has a Guitar Send/Return loop, you might want to put your Wah, Comp & OD pedals in that loop, unless you really want to add distortion to your synth sounds - run your mod effects after the synth Out, and put your Delay in the amp's FX loop.

 

I have two Roland GR synths, and that's how I tend to run my system. BTW, which guitar has the GK pup? That'll make a big difference in your overall tone, too.

 

in my 'umble opinion, there's a lot of sense to be made from the replies here..particularly with wah placement..i'd go fuzz (fuzz, fuzz and fuzz) before the wah, then comp, i like phasers before distortion...seems to get a better tone to me distorting a phase than driving it...but that's subjective. your ears will tell ya what's right..

 

but with the roland synth...you may find you like it better if you separate it completely from your guitar signal chain. tho the organs in them things can sound awesome into tubes, most of the other sounds will suffer greatly from the mild overdrive of even a pretty clean tube amp (what we consider clean is really generally pretty overdriven...hey, we're guitar players, we LIKE that...but not every synth should sound like jon lord!!!)...

my humble suggestion is to run your guitar and synth separate...

 

use the gk pickup to drive the synth, keep the gk switch set to synth only. run the output of your guitar to the input of your effects, and the output of the synth to the pa or a dedicated amp.

 

your tone will thank you!

 

if you HAVE to run your synth in line, try it like this...

 

again, run your guitar into your effects, (other than perhaps time based ones like echoes and verbs) and take the output of the non-time domain effects, and plug that into the RETURN of the roland...that way, the buffers in the roland won't squash your tone so much, and you can use the roland's volume as a master level feeding your amp.

 

sorry, but to me, running the roland as designed just doesn't sound all that good...always get a better sound on both when using the signal paths separately.

 

i mean, ya pay good money for the pickups on your guitar....if ya like the way they drive your amp, why mess it up?

 

your milage may vary, of course...best of luck!

peace!

[Winston Psmith]

One fix I've found is sending everything into a keyboard amp - yeah, I know, it's blasphemy to tube purists - but it gives me wider frequency response for the synth sounds, and I don't really need to re-amp the amp models on the GT-3. Some of the lows coming out of the GR synths will trash a guitar amp, especially if you're into nice toothy B3 sounds, or fat Moog basses.

 

BTW, jimi, which GR's are you using?

[pinkjimiphoton]

i use gr1, gr09, and a gr30 depending on the gig...my main band has a fairly awesome keyboardist, so i rarely use a guitar synth these days...but often do bring one, just in case..usually the 30, even tho it's bordering on a guitar controlled casio more than a true synthesizer. i use it for the 12 string thing, that way if i need that it's there, also use the sax and horn patches on it quite a bit...but if i do, i send it to the pa and fold it back to the monitors to hear...if i run it thru a guitar amp, it sucks the life out of it.

my fav of the 3 is probably the 09, but i love the gr1 too.

the 30 is more user friendly live tho.

i have gk pickups on my les paul, one of my strats, and my #1 firebird.

on the lp, we made a little bracket out of a slot cover from an old tower pc, it's neat...you can raise or lower it to set it up for closeness to the strings, and it mounts between the thumbwheels and bridge...so if ya change the action, the synth pickup maintains a constant distance from the strings..and no carving up the paul. it's only an epiphone, but it's a limited edition quilt top, in grey burst, and i just didn't wanna mess it up. i'll take a pic and post it when i get a chance..15 minutes of work was definitely worth it!

[RocketRobinson]

Good call on splitting the Roland GR-20 from the amp, JP. Putting it direct to the PA and putting the pedal board thru the effects chain on the amp not only makes the Roland patches sound truer (and I can run separate eq on the PA)but also reduces amp hiss. I'm getting closer to the sound I want. Thanks all for your input, this forum is a great resource.

[pinkjimiphoton]

glad it works for ya bro...it's all good..this is indeed a great forum, unlike the more usual bull**** ya see most places, for sure!

 

one other thing that may work on some amps, is to put the roland synth in the fx loop of the amp....but i would imagine it would kinda squash the tone some.

[ToneDude]

I had a Route 66, nice pedal, great compressor and OD, keep the compression down and use it to drive the OD pretty nice SRV. They also have the dual OD Double Trouble as SRV used 2 TubeScreamers. I did not dig on the Jekyl&Hyde too much, each sounds great but I do not like an OD after the high gain. Changes the entire voice and tone. Ruins the voice of a great gain pedal for me.

 

VS pedals have a great buffer circuit, also internal adjust on the pedals, bass level on the OD bass boost, noise reduction level in the compressor.

 

Order of effects:

Envelop Filters, triggered filters

Wah

Compressor

ODs

Gains

Phaser, Flange, Vibe, Chorus

 

Delays in the loop

Reverbs in the loop

BBE maximizaers

noise reduction last effect IN THE LOOP

 

There are options some like but it really depends on the pedal, amp, guitar and chain interaction. You cannot go wrong w this order but some of the options do not always sound good for some pedals.

 

I also prefer chorus in the loop, phasers and any modulator works in the loop, some prefer into the amp in.

 

I like my phasers after my high gains on amp in, I just do not like phasers into gains or vibes into gains, just does not sound good to me and ruins the full sweep of the vibe or phasers, I like that cool sweep. I currently have a vibe on amp in after OD and gains and another one in the loop.

 

High gain is for a clean channel an OD works on any level of channel gain. Makes a clean channel have response and feel and some gain depending on the OD drive gain. Tightens up a high gain channel. OD in front of a high gain intensifies the high gain and gives more response and feel.

 

Never high gain two sources, been my peference that a nice warm OD works best for all aps. SRVs TS units were set low gain, when combined they fuzz each other. Gain into gain does not work every well.

 

Some like crappy sounds as if they are unique, I hate the phrase there are no rules, maybe not, but there are bad sounds. Like a delay into a gain pedal or a gained amp in, terrible. A compressor magnifies your noise floor, wahs and wah like triggers go before as to get better triggering. Try what you like and do not be afraid to change your chain you cannot hurt anything and the better tones will stand out.

 

 

[ToneDude]

glad it works for ya bro...it's all good..this is indeed a great forum, unlike the more usual bull**** ya see most places, for sure!

 

one other thing that may work on some amps, is to put the roland synth in the fx loop of the amp....but i would imagine it would kinda squash the tone some.

 

I ran a GR synth for a few years, stereo into 2 twins through the effect return bypassing the preamp, sounded full and great, had some pedals in the synth's loop option.

[pinkjimiphoton]

a pair of twins would work, especially on organs, synths and string pads.

 

the key is bypassing the preamps...

 

so, like...were you driving your guitar signal path into the returns of the gr to drive the amps?

 

tried that with my cybertwin, forget it...they kinda f'd that design up!!

 

depends if it's parallell or serial i guess, as to how the loop is set up.

 

but tell ya what...some of them organ patches right into the front of a tube amp with some overdrive and distortion got real close to my hammond.

[pinkjimiphoton]

great article by barry cleveland here about fx order, etc...

with some great info from pete cornish and others...

 

http://www.guitarplayer.com/article/chairmen-boards/apr-08/35211

[ToneDude]

Yeah, I ran my synth into the loop returns of two twin amps I had for stereo. At that time I wanted the full clarity and bandwidth of the patches and I added gains in the synth loop which worked out rather well.

 

Imagine a Diary of a Madman complete with vocal choir undertone with the guitar dist voice. Was pretty wicked.

 

The first time I tossed that at the band it took some heads off. I had this huge choir ahhhh sound going under my heavy dist drive. I later started using the twins just for the synth on effect return ins (parallel loops) and using my Marshall for really heavy drive tones. Sounded unearthly.

 

I wish I had the bucks to rig that again w the new model synth they have out. No one I have ever heard had that massive a sound going on.

[Caevan O’Shite]

Yeah, I ran my synth into the loop returns of two twin amps I had for stereo. At that time I wanted the full clarity and bandwidth of the patches and I added gains in the synth loop which worked out rather well.

 

Imagine a Diary of a Madman complete with vocal choir undertone with the guitar dist voice. Was pretty wicked.

 

The first time I tossed that at the band it took some heads off. I had this huge choir ahhhh sound going under my heavy dist drive. I later started using the twins just for the synth on effect return ins (parallel loops) and using my Marshall for really heavy drive tones. Sounded unearthly.

 

I wish I had the bucks to rig that again w the new model synth they have out. No one I have ever heard had that massive a sound going on.

 

Gotta love that, eh?!

[ToneDude]

I would love to have the new Roland Guitar Synth they just integrated with the V system. You can get some killer unique and original tones blending the synth w your usual pedalboard drive tone. I ran the older synth stereo through the effect ins of 2 twins and my Marshall half stack held the pedalboard guitar chain. Really, really heavy massive wall of tone. Got to dig some of the custom guitars they built in a synth hex pickup like some of the Carvin's major coolness. The new synths have no real tracking issues, I found the problem with a lot of players trying them was the technique used on the patch tone, you have to have a sense of touch and feel for the sound. Like you would not just strum string patches.

[pinkjimiphoton]

you nailed it dude...you have to adapt your playing to get any of them synths to really track well.