array of stomp boxes VS all-in-one-pedalboard

[SEHpicker]

I have never owned a set of stomp boxes so I don't really know if there is any advantage to that set up versus an all-in-one pedal board.

I use a Boss GT-10 run thru a Fender Deville 4x10 and really like it although I'm not utilizing all it's features by a long shot. I just use 1 bank (it has like 80) each bank has 6 different stomp buttons - 4 presets and 2 that can add specific functions to whichever of the 4 is currently being used... such as delay or flange or boost or whatever. The volume/wah pedal is great and has a bunch of other features it can do as well. Plus an excellent tuner. But I like to keep things simple so I just use the one bank... well, actually 2 banks - one set up for my Strat and one for my LP. On each I have clean, overdrive, chorus and one set as clean with a moderate gain boost.

Our rhythm player/front man uses a bunch of stomp boxes and it seems like he's alway having issues with wiring or batteries or something. So far I am totally satisfied with the GT-10... and I'm very picky about my tone.

So guys, is there an advantage to individual stomp boxes other than the ability to mix and match various brands and types of boxes?... am I missing out on something?

Please elaborate. Thanks.

SEHpicker

[Caevan O’Shite]

If you like it and it works for you, you're set. It doesn't matter what anybody else thinks or says, or what works better for someone else.

 

Now, I wanted a number of very specific pedals for very specific reasons; even using a DigiTech GNX4 into headphones or direct to a PA, I have several pedals- all of 'em all-analog except for one- that I still put in front of the GNX4. Short answer, they do what I want.

 

I also always use three of those same pedals (four if you count a tuner), connected in the order listed, when I use my tube-amp, a Carvin 'Vintage 33' 1x12" combo; and also when I use BOTH the GNX4 AND the Vintage 33 in parallel, GNX4 to the PA, amp either un-mic'ed, mi'ed, or D/I'd to the PA; in any and all of these cases, at least those same three pedals come before both the DigiTech AND the Carvin, the signal-path split between them by either the stereo outputs of the last pedal in line (a Boss RT-20 Leslie/rotary sim), or the two outputs of a little buffer/booster/splitter pedal that I have.

 

Those three pedals are a Foxrox 'Octron' multi-octave fuzz, a Fulltone 'Clyde Deluxe' wah, and the Boss 'RT-20 Rotary Ensemble' Leslie/rotary sim.

 

The GNX4's on-board digital/virtual wah is passable, but isn't nearly as enjoyable as the Fulltone; same with the GNX4's rotary-sim vs the Boss; in fact the Boss RT-20 completely outclasses the GNX4 at Leslie simulation, even in mono.

 

And there's no provision at all for either a Univibe model or type of effect- which the Boss RT-20 also does a halfway-decent impersonation of- or an octave-fuzz, neither Octavia-style octave-UP fuzz, nor Mutron Octave-Divider type octave-DOWN, BOTH of which are VERY WELL dished-out by the Foxrox, which ALSO includes a clean/straight Direct signal that can be blended with the two octave-fuzz effects.

 

When I have it- and haven't loaned it out to the other guitarist in the band I joined, till he gets his own overdrive and distortion pedals- I nearly always ALSO put a Radial Tonebone 'Plexitube' hybrid tube/SS distortion pedal in front of the GNX4. SOOO much fatter and fuller than any of the GNX4's models when I want a big herkin' jawbreaker of a Marshally distortion; and when I combine the Octron with the Plexitube, both on in that order (with a Guyatone SV2 serving as a noise-gate between 'em), going into the GNX4 set to a clean amp model- sometimes with a digital-model of a phaser- I get this crushing Turbo Buzztortion Creamsicle sound!

 

Now, the GNX4 WILL do a couple good sounding digital-models of classic fuzz pedals- which sound good in general, but lack the dynamic interaction of real fuzz pedals, such as tonal-response and cleaning-up relative to the guitar's volume-knob and your picking attack- and it will ALSO do some pitch-shifting and octave up or down effects- but these will in no way at all even vaguely resemble the sound and feel and quirks of real-live analog octave-fuzz pedals, not even in the tiniest bit...

 

So, that's why I bought and use those pedals; they were the way to get what I wanted, and largely the only way. I don't know if there is ANY all-in-one multi-effects processor or digital-modeling unit that will do ALL of these effects and do them well.

[Lokair]

I personally like just a Wah(sometimes a compressor instead) then into my tube setup, which has a built in reverb with a delay pedal in the efx loop. This amp is more and more being used sans any effects besides the built in dual reverb tanks.

 

 

Into my other set up I use a ART SGX nitro, with a foot controller. This now does my wah, reverb, and delay if needed. I occasionally like to add distortion here for a bit of weird metal.

 

Now to compare pedals vs all in one seems to be a hard thing, as they both perform well in their respective uses, but neither are all in-compassing. Different amps have different takes on extra equipment.

 

Lok

[Caevan O’Shite]

Now, for an educational illustration of how "all-in-one" pedal/effects-processors can be put to FANTASTIC use and sound GREAT, search up many of ToneZappa's posts and clips here on the Guitar Player Forum; STELLAR great tone and effects use!! I would take his word on any such device, and if I couldn't seem to get what I wanted to hear and feel out of it, I'd ask him for some pointers! SERIOUSLY.

 

 

Not too unlike the way many players don't "get" vintage-style fuzzes, octave-fuzzes, "treble-boosters", and the like, where I could show 'em how to get more out of 'em by how they're used...

 

I've often had other players really like the sounds I get from some of my pedals, and then see confused and displeased looks on their faces when I let them try the pedals themselves; sometimes, they'll try what I can show 'em about where and how to play on the fretboard, adjust the guitar's volume-knob, use the pedal with another or a cleaner or more overdriven/distorted amp, etc. etc. etc.; more often, they don't seem to get it no matter what I explain. What are often seen as weaknesses, hassles and faults in some of these vintage-type pedals, can actually be strengths and points to be taken advantage of...

 

~ALSO~ If you dig the Hendrix/Trower/SRV/Gilmour thing (just add wah wah, Helen Keller! ) AND would like something convenient and "all-in-one" with excellent tone, hand-built quality AND the type of detail and complexity associated with using individual pedals, try- IF you can find one, they're no longer being made- a Foxrox 'Captain Coconut 2'...

 

There's more, much more, than meets the eye here (read below)

 

http://www.guitartest.de/DIETSIDE%20BILDER/Foxrox%20Captain%20Coconut%202%20big.JPG

 

From the Foxrox 'site:

_______________________________________________________________________

 

Order of effects - Just like the original Captain Coconut, CC2 offers the ability to patch the three effects in any order you want. For convenience, the effects have a default signal flow. The order of effects in CC2 is Octave>FuzzFoot>Provibe. The original Captain Coconut was Octave>Vibe>FuzzFoot. While they are both valid combinations, the new order seems to be what more people prefer and it's my favorite setup, so I made the change.

 

FuzzCard "plug-in fuzz" concept - Fuzz is a touchy thing. Most players have their own idea of what the ideal Fuzz should sound like. This is due in part to the fact that the original FuzzFace was not a consistent product, there were different versions (Silicon NPN, germanium PNP, custom mods, etc..) and individual units sounded different from one another. Also, different types of Fuzz's sound different depending on what amp is used. The FuzzFoot, my custom version of the classic Fuzzface circuit covers more ground than most Fuzz pedals, but still I saw the need to add one more degree of flexibility - I designed the FuzzCard, the entire Fuzz circuit on a plug-in circuit board. This makes it possible to put any version of the classic Fuzz circuit into a Captain Coconut 2 without having to make any changes to the main circuit board. The tone of a Fuzz is very subjective, and the FuzzCard makes it possible to please even the pickiest players. Several different versions of the Fuzz circuit will be available, in addition to a stand - alone FuzzFoot unit that will be built around the modular FuzzCard. FuzzCard is also an experimenter's dream. For those who prefer to build their own Fuzz, a blank FuzzCard will be available so you can pick your own transistors and other components and modifications without any mods to the main Captain Coconut circuit board.

 

Envelope Controlled Speed (ECS) for the Provibe - ECS takes Vibe speed control to a whole new level. In addition to front panel and pedal control of speed, the Provibe offers an option to control the speed with the dynamics of your playing. This was a feature that made the '93 / '94 version of the Provibe unique among all the other Univibe clones that popped up in the mid '90s, and I decided to bring this awesome feature back. When you put the ECS/SPEED switch in the ESC position, the SPEED knob becomes the sensitivity and decay control for the ECS circuit. You select the sensitivity level that works the best for your guitar, playing style and amount of speed variation you want. From there, you create speed variations with your playing which are unique and incredibly expressive. The harder you hit the strings, the faster it spins. As your notes die down, it slows. Picking style, guitar volume knob changes and other effects in the signal chain all contribute to unique, yet reproducible speed variation that no other Vibe effect is capable of. This feature, along with the flexibility and super lush 3-D sound of the Provibe makes it superior to all other "Vibes".

 

Improved Speed pedal control - The original Univibe came with a speed control pedal, there was no speed control on the front of the unit. Since then, virtually all of the true Vibe clones which offer external speed pedal control have relied on the same basic circuit. This is good and bad - it's good because nothing beats the original Univibe "throb" that this circuit delivers. The bad part is that it requires a custom-wired dual potentiometer with an unusual taper. The common result is poor speed control range, not to mention the fact that it's a real pain in the butt to modify a rocker pedal to serve this function, and it can be expensive to pay someone else to do it. Captain Coconut 2 uses opto couplers to accomplish speed control, while still using the original vintage circuitry. Just about any off-the-shelf volume pedals or expression pedal can be used to control the speed of the Provibe, without any internal modifications. If you have a passive volume or expression pedal that you don't use, chances are it will make the ideal Provibe speed pedal. When a speed pedal is hooked up to the Provibe, the front-panel speed control becomes a "maximum speed limiter". This provides a degree of pedal control that no other Vibe offers.

[Funkwire]

I'm in the same boat as the OP. I use a Digitech 355, but I'm using a fraction of its features. Since I'm running it through an amp (Egnater Rebel 30), I've stripped away the modeling, EQ, noise gate...all that stuff. I use it in 'stompbox' mode and I only use chorus, delay (4 or 5 different ones), tremelo (on one song), and a couple of harmonizer patches. I don't like the distortion sounds on the Digitech...luckily, the Egnater covers that need very well.

 

The Digitech also has the advantage of inboard tuning and a built-in volume pedal (which turns into a wah pedal by pressing down on the pedal). I run the Digitech through the effects loop and include a Seymour Duncan Pickup Booster in the chain for clean boost (I use that for gigs when we are running sound from the stage and don't have a sound tech to turn me up for solos).

 

Previously, I used a Digitech GNX2. A bass player in one of my bands gave me the RP355. It doesn't have the ability to switch from bank to bank like the GNX2, but it's smaller and lighter. And it uses the same samples. I can work with it just fine. And the price was right!

 

If I wasn't playing in a cover band and needed to cover many different tones, I would make my set up even simpler. Probably just use a dual delay and call it good.

[pinkjimiphoton]

i have used multi effects for years...they are great for alot of uses, but i think tonally you have more options with stompboxes...

but...

 

multieffects have less that can go wrong

" " "" """" usually are less noisy

are easier to plug and play

but...you have to program them. and not with headphones on, into your actual setup you use live...otherwise, it's damn near impossible to match signal levels, and what sounds brilliant in phones may sound like dog poo into the amp.

factor in that programming and tweaks live can be a total pia, too...

 

stompboxes however, are easy...twist the knobs, and stomp on 'em.

 

but...ya can't turn off multiple effects easily (unless you have them say, pre-set in a dedicated fx loop switcher) and the jumper cables are prone to failure..they're in the spilled beer zone, people step on them and crush knobs, etc...

 

either way has it's inherent hassles....and pros and cons.

 

like my learned brother above says, there's no right, no wrong...it's what resonates with you.

 

lately, i'm on a dedicated pedal kick..but my pedalboard is running out of room cuz i am addicted to fuzztones and building them lately. but that'll probably change...i always end up going back to my trusty old boss me5 that i've been using since 89 or so...if you can find one, check it out...they're cheap these days, and in one way are superior to all that came after...each of the 64 patches can be it's own little independant 5 pedal pedalboard...switch to manual mode, and you can use it just like pedals.

 

when i'm gigging alot, i usually build a pedal board into an old bass case with a bunch of stuff i need in it...in that case, it's often an me5 and a bunch of pedals. may not be high tech, but it works out really well for me.

 

here's a couple pics from days of yore

 

http://ph1landrews.com/jp/377x484pedbrd_mid.jpg

 

http://ph1landrews.com/jp/380x291liverig.jpg

 

http://ph1landrews.com/jp/512x270pedalboard_left.jpg

 

 

http://ph1landrews.com/jp/306x302talkbox.jpg

 

just use whatever it is that turns you personally on...and you'll be good to go.

rock on!

 

[Winston Psmith]

So guys, is there an advantage to individual stomp boxes other than the ability to mix and match various brands and types of boxes?... am I missing out on something?

Please elaborate. Thanks.

SEHpicker

 

I have a Boss GT-3 that I use a lot, and too damn many pedals to haul around easily - there are pros and cons to both approaches.

 

With the GT-10, you can all but switch rigs at the touch of a button, going from a TS9, Phase 90, DD-3 into Fender Twin chain, to a Metal Zone, Flanger, Reverse Delay into a Marshal stack set-up. You can save all your settings, even set up for different rooms, if you play a couple of different places regularly. You also get a degree of consistency - your "Little Wing" or "Gimme Shelter" patch will always sound the same when you dial it up. What you can't do is run every effect in the GT-10, all at once, something you can do with a pile of stompboxes. You also avoid some noise/ground loop problems, because you're dealing with one device, one power supply, instead of daisy-chaining a bunch of pedals together. You also don't have to worry that one pedal will screw up your whole signal chain.

 

With individual pedals, you get more choice in the sounds you want - if you want a Germanium fuzz, or a really long delay, your multi-fx might not do the job - also, if something goes wrong with your multi-fx, that's your whole rig. Pedals also encourage creativity & spontaneity - if you feel like using a completely different sound for your solo tonight, you can, without having to dig into a menu, turn the Alpha dial, and then store the new sound, while your audience scratch their heads, or wander off to get a drink.

 

If your GT-10 is doing the job for you, don't worry about collecting pedals quite yet - it's an expensive, and addictive habit. OTOH, if you feel like your rig would be more manageable with just a Wah, an OD and a Delay, the GT-10 is probably overkill, although buying boutique pedals isn't always going to be cheaper than buying a multi-effects board. Even buying stock effects (Boss, Ibanez, Digitech) isn't always going to be more affordable. A TS9 is about $110, a DD-7 around $150, $70 for a Crybaby, $70 to 100 for a Phaser/Flanger or Chorus, and you're most of the way to paying for a GT-10, plus you're still looking at a power supply/daisy chain ($20 and up), and some kind of pedalboard ($40 and up). It's enough to give you G.A.S.!

[SEHpicker]

Thanks for the input guys.

I really am quite happy with my GT-10. To my ear it has very good tone and emulation of various amps & such. What everyone is saying is about what I figured but wanted to hear what my knowledgable pals here on the forum had to say on the subject...

especially since there are several threads going about stomp boxes and no one really mentions full pedalboards.

Having everything all on one board is a big plus for me. Gigging alot and hualing gear makes you want to keep it as minimal as possible.

SEHpicker

[Terrell]

On the floor modelers: I just got a Line 6 HD500 I'm trying out. It has some things you could never do with stomp boxes. It has many of the normal stomp box models. I'm very impressed with it's expressiveness through different attack and volume knob control. Something that these units have lacked in the past since the old Roland GP8 was a hybrid analog / digital unit. Of course, it wasn't simulating an amp (just bunching the pedals together). So, if you like the tone and the expressiveness (or lack) you get from the all in one modeling units, just know they are getting better.

 

Modelers and all in one units:

Lower Noise (usually )

Programmable for 100s of complicated presets

Simple to power, house, transport, wire, set up and strike

Do a pretty good job of simulating the standard stuff

 

On the other hand.

Every day there is some new little pedal that I might want to try. These modelers and all in one units don't really play well with some of the pedals (gain mismatch, signal chain, noise exaggeration, dithered pre amp noise, etc.) Just inserting a simple pedal in front of an amp or another pedal is really cool and flexible. These are little bundles of joy that give hours of fun for $50-300 a shot. Sometimes even inspiration.

 

I think you need both! For real. And, to be a pedal head doesn't mean you need $3k amp. Get a valve junior for $100 and you can pedal out for days on the cheap!

[pinkjimiphoton]

right on, bro...

 

i still have a gp8, i love it...it's like an me5 in a racks!! and they are cheap these days, it's nice having the fx loop in them...

you can pummel the front end of your amp with basic but usable boss analog effects, and put the dig it the loop where it belongs.

 

nice!

[Terrell]

Still have my GP8 and it works like a charm... I bought it new in 1985 or 6.

[Winston Psmith]

I think you need both! For real.

 

A lot of us have multi-FX and multiple effects, it's true, and we often combine them. The GT-10 even has an Ext Effect Loop, IIRC, so you can insert some favorite pedal in the GT's signal chain. The best answer is to use whatever works for you, even if that changes all the time.

 

BTW, I know one sound engineer who keeps a couple of old GP8's in his studio rack, just in case - it's that good.

[Lokair]

Jimi Photon I want that 2x12 in that picture. Great cabinet.

 

I just saw a guy to day that swears by pedals, and he has like 50 of em. His claim is that everyone of them can be effected by the one directly infront of it. This lead him to build a custom switcher, so only the ones he wants are in the loop, some of them even are duplicated so as he can select the one with the settings for that part. I will hopefully get to hear this rig this week end. I have a feeling its gonna either be real good or suck majorly.

 

Lok

[skipclone 1]

I`ve come to believe a hybrid rig is best-there are some stomps that are just better sounding than the equivalent in a multieffect unit. The stomps are often built to do one or two things well. Combine one of your faves with a multi that gives you a wide sonic pallete-provided they match well-and Jimi`s your uncle.

[Dannyalcatraz]

ya can't turn off multiple effects easily

 

Personally, I prefer dedicated pedals, and I have quite a few, so I looked for a solution.

 

The one I found is the Carl Martin Octa-switch. You can plug in up to 8 pedals* and then use dip switches to come up with up to 8 different combinations.

 

 

 

 

 

 

* I suppose that you could plug in multiple pedals in series into a given single pedal slot if you ALWAYS wanted those particular pedals to work together.

[pinkjimiphoton]

does that mean, you could preset 8 different combinations of 8 pedals? cuz man, that would be pretty cool!!!

[Griffinator]

does that mean, you could preset 8 different combinations of 8 pedals? cuz man, that would be pretty cool!!!

 

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Carl-Martin-OctaSwitch-Guitar-Effects-Switching-System?sku=152013&src=3WWRWXMB&ZYXSEM=0

 

That's how I'm reading it - 8 banks available, and you can program each bank with however many of the pedals you want on at that moment. Setup seems simple - each pedal goes into each loop (1-8) and then you set up your banks.

 

Even has selectable true bypass or buffered bypass...

[pinkjimiphoton]

wow, man, that sounds hip as h***!!!!! thanks for the headsup, bro..

[Dannyalcatraz]

Yeah, that's basically how it works! They ain't cheap- I haven't seen one under $300- but for that kind of flexibility? Yes, please!

 

The one weakness I've found- and it may be unavoidable tradeoff- is that the jacks are all in the back. This lets you stomp the switches on the CMO-S and switch between your different groupings, but it can be a pain if you want to stomp on your actual pedals because they'll all be in back.

 

Currently, I'm using extra long cables to bring my pedals to the front so I can stomp on them because- for the most part- I don't need to swap out settings in the CMO-S on the fly so much as nuance my pedals.

 

I wrote a bit more detail about it here:

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2220828/New_Gear

[pinkjimiphoton]

hmmmm...just curious, does this thing need to be powered? and if so, is it buffered, passive, or just use juice for led indicators?

 

wondering if it would be something worth cloning...it doesn't seem like it would be too difficult of a build, if it's basically passive..

[Dannyalcatraz]

Well, it can use 9vs or a DC adapter, and while it definitely lights up the blue LEDs, I'm guessing (because I'm no electonics whiz) that it also needs that power, because nothing happens without it.

[pinkjimiphoton]

probably buffered then, which would makes sense...otherwise it would suck tone way too much. i see "bypass" boxes on ebay all the time, but nothing like this!

[Lokair]

Here is a great article about true bypass for anyone interested. This guy makes some incredible stuff for some of the biggest names.

 

http://www.petecornish.co.uk/case_against_true_bypass.html

 

Lok

[skipclone 1]

Interesting and a good point.

I want to try one of Pete`s cables but they are just too too much-I`m sure they are good but really...

[Caevan O’Shite]

Here is a great article about true bypass for anyone interested. This guy makes some incredible stuff for some of the biggest names.

 

http://www.petecornish.co.uk/case_against_true_bypass.html

 

Lok

 

Yhup; good info from a genuine expert.

 

Here's some more from another seasoned electronics and pedal expert, pretty much in agreement:

 

 

ALL ABOUT BYPASS © 2004 H. Davis

 

 

 

HOW LOADING AND CABLES AFFECT YOUR SOUND AND WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT © 2004 H. Davis

 

 

Many of us have enjoyed the fruits of Mick's (Howard Davis') labors over the years...

[Terrell]

probably buffered then, which would makes sense...otherwise it would suck tone way too much. i see "bypass" boxes on ebay all the time, but nothing like this!

 

I'd probably use a matrix switch. Rolls has one or two. Also, Rocktron has a cool thing out: http://www.rocktron.com/news/index.php

[harvey]

A mate I used to jam with in Australia started this company in the uk...makes heaps of cool switching things....

 

The Gigrig

[pinkjimiphoton]

i think it all comes down to what cornish suggests...

crank up the amp, and one pedal at a time, set unity gain...when the fx is bypassed, if the tone changes, or the volume drops, add a buffer. if it doesn't change, or drop, then don't worry about it.

but...to me, at least, it really seems to depend on the amp's settings. tone changes and volume drops seem more noticeable into a clean amp than a dirty one...so i guess ya gotta average it out so it's ok regardless....which is where buffering can come in so handy.

 

 

[pinkjimiphoton]

read on, paddlebuds... from the mighty beavis himself...

 

http://www.beavisaudio.com/techpages/Buffers/