PCI vs USB computer interface latency?

[Jazz+]

Wouldn't I get lower latency with a PCI type interface, like the E-MU 1212m, than with a USB interface, such as the E-MU 0404 USB? Performing real time solo QL Steinway Piano is my goal.

 

E-MU 1212M "PCI" :

http://www.emu.com/products/product.asp?category=505&subcategory=491&product=9872

 

E-MU 0404 "USB" 2.0 :

http://www.emu.com/products/product.asp?category=610&subcategory=611&product=15185

 

 

[ITGITC]

Yes.

 

PCI, then Firewire, then USB is the preference.

 

But Firewire is fine and offers the flexibility of using the interface on multiple machines. If that doesn't matter to you then, how about not having to open your computer to install the card?

 

By not having the electronics living inside your computer you also potentially/theoretically keep the digital noise floor down.

 

PCI or Firewire - that's what I would choose.

 

Tom

[davinwv]

Where does ExpressCard on a laptop fit in to the hierarchy? I ordered an Echo Indigo IOx ExpressCard interface for my new laptop setup. I assume it would be the same as PCi, since there is an older PCMCIA version of this card as well.

[ITGITC]

Where does ExpressCard on a laptop fit in to the hierarchy? I ordered an Echo Indigo IOx ExpressCard interface for my new laptop setup. I assume it would be the same as PCi, since there is an older PCMCIA version of this card as well.

 

It's a bus mastering CardBus host interface. Therefore, it should have latency specs the same as PCI.

 

Tom

 

 

[burningbusch]

I would agree with what has been posted, but the horse power (CPU power) of the machine as well as the quality of the drivers is also important.

 

I have a MacPro 2.8 Ghz with Digidesign TDM PCI cards and a USB 2.0 Edirol M16DX. The lowest I can safely set my latency to is ~ 100 samples. It's the same with my firewire interface on my MacBook 2.4 Ghz, around 100 samples. If I go below 100 samples, some instruments run fine but others are under stress.

 

Busch.

[smanzella]

I'd like to chime in and recommend Firewire. I just purchased a Presonus Firestudio Project and it performs flawlessly on my laptop and desktop. The really nice thing about Firewire is that I can plug the Firestudio into my desktop at home and then plug it into my laptop when I go to rehearsal or even a gig that I may want to record. I'm doing eight tracks at once on my laptop without any problems. USB is also ok. But, USB is more of a software driven interface whereas Firewire is anchored more in dedicated hardware which translates into less work for the CPU. As far as PCI goes, I have never used that platform for recording. But, I do know that there is a ton of EMI inside a computer case and that could lead to unsolvable noise problems. Hope this helps.

[bloodyMary]

I only know that my cheap USB card goes down to 5 ms latency. Which translates into ~10 ms real world latency. Since there are far better cards out there, I believe that USB is capable of 2 ms latency, and That's fine for most demanding player.

[Bill Heins]

I use an Echo Layla 3G PCI card and love it! There's no noise, very low latency, and it's worked flawlessly since I got it. On the bonus side it comes with a breakout box and 15' cable so I can set it on my desk for easier access to the inputs and outputs. Plus I can add as many more cards as I have PCI slots!

 

I think sometime in the Spring I'm going to pick up another card. Right now I'm only using 6 inputs(3 stereo pairs)for both my keyboards and guitar but with the KDFX in my Kurzweil I'm thinking of using more than just a stereo output from the Kurzweil...I can use 8 mono outputs(or 4 stereo pairs) from the board which will bring my total needs to 12 inputs on the Layla, more than the card has

 

The Layla cards will clock to each other so sync will be easy

 

Oh, I don't go directly into the soundcard, I run everything through a Mackie CR1604VLZ first...I believe it warms the sound a bit.

 

Bill

[Bill Heins]

Forgot to add it allows me to do 24bit/96khz which is how I work right now...eventually I want to go to 192khz for DVD audio, but I'm good for now

 

Bill

[JeffLearman]

If the hardware and software are quality, and the computer is up to it, *it shouldn't matter*.

 

We're talking about under 5 ms difference in latency.

 

Here's a test. Move your speakers 5 feet farther away from your head, and tell me if you can detect the difference in latency.

 

Sound travels just a little farther than a foot in a millisecond.

 

The technologies themselves aren't the issue here, it's the quality of the implementations and the total system behavior.

 

A few ms only matter if there's something seriously wrong with the rest of the chain, and it pushes the total well over 10 msec. Seriously, have you played a ROMpler (which has a couple msec latency -- surely you've noticed!) with a speaker 10' away? Can you tolerate that? ... I sure can. Below that level, we're talking about difference that matter to world-class percussionists, but not to most of the rest of us.

[JeffLearman]

The order that Tom gives is a good one though, and applies to stability as well as latency, in general, and it utterly depends on the quality of implementation.