Griffinator Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 for the haters: I thought Kobe's play near the end of regulation was out of character for this season. He had at least two wide open 3 point shooters (Ariza asking for it) and instead tried to draw a foul against 3 defenders. Not a smart basketball play considering the clock was winding down. Go Lakers! Why not? The refs had been giving him fouls all night long. Just ask Mikael Pietrus... A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Klopmeyer Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 On hating Kobe. I love Scoop Jackson's writing. This was indeed a great article. I can't imagine, should the Lakers win a couple more games over the next week or so, that anyone, hater or otherwise, can say with a straight face that he's not 1) one of the top ten NBA players of all time and 2) the third best guard in history, behind MJ and Magic. Marketing Communications for MI/Pro Audio My solo music and stuff They Stole My Crayon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 I wouldn't say that anyway, Jeff. Doesn't mean I can't despise him for what he represents. He's the poster child for generation Y - as in "Y" should I do it if I can just throw a fit and get someone else to do it for me? I ask you: Did Michael Jordan demand to be traded because he didn't think the team was good enough during the 6 years he waited to win a title? Kobe wants everyone to crown him the GOAT, well, that's the standard he has to live up to. He's already flunked that test. A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 (addendum) I will stop hating Kobe the minute Kobe shows me the one thing I've not yet seen from him (or anyone else in the basketball world I truly hate): Some class. I'm still waiting for it. He doesn't even know what class is. He spent his whole career trying to live up to the thug life image that the NBA was, he doesn't know anything about class. A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfD Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 I will never support and/or understand the hateration Kobe receives. Folks see arrogant, cocky, smug, self-centered, etc. I see an extremely extremely confident cat with a lot of baggage hanging on him. Yeah, I thought bringing up Shaq's name when he got caught up was immature but otherwise, Kobe balls his a** off. I feel similarly about other stars when it comes to sports, entertainment, politics, etc. As Geoff mentioned, it's a f'd game of skeet shooting that both the media and society plays. When someone is rising, folks love them to pieces. Once that individual is adored by millions and show it, they are equally hated. I really don't understand how or why anybody wants to be famous when the expectation is to be incredibly meek and humble. In oher words, give free rides on your stick but do not enjoy it. Kobe, shake the haters and keep skeet shooting in their eyes mayne. PD "The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanker. Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 I can't imagine, should the Lakers win a couple more games over the next week or so, that anyone, hater or otherwise, can say with a straight face that he's not 1) one of the top ten NBA players of all time and 2) the third best guard in history, behind MJ and Magic. Heh, he barely cracks the top 50. He's no Michael, he's no Magic, he's no Oscar. That's the top 3. In reverse order. He's not even the best player in the league right now. He has a lot of skills, but in his 30's he has yet to understand basketball as a team sport. It's a concept he has never fully embraced, and probably never will. His ego has built blinders in his game that leave him out of the discussion, not worthy of mention with the true greats. A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Once that individual is adored by millions and show it, they are equally hated. Nope, I don't hate the rich. I hate people who think they shouldn't have to earn it. Kobe threw temper tantrums, including throwing his teammates under the bus, demanding that Jerry West get more personnel, or else trade him somewhere else. This was as recent as '07. I don't recall any bonafide superstar in basketball making such a demand. The real superstars busted their asses, doing everything they could to win a championship, and let the management do what they could to contribute. True of Jordan, Magic, Bird, Kareem, the list goes on and on. The really great players just busted their asses and played ball. Kobe, no, he was all set to hold out in '07 because he didn't think there was enough talent around him. Crock of SHIT, is what that is... A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 I can't imagine, should the Lakers win a couple more games over the next week or so, that anyone, hater or otherwise, can say with a straight face that he's not 1) one of the top ten NBA players of all time and 2) the third best guard in history, behind MJ and Magic. Heh, he barely cracks the top 50. He's no Michael, he's no Magic, he's no Oscar. That's the top 3. In reverse order. He's not even the best player in the league right now. He has a lot of skills, but in his 30's he has yet to understand basketball as a team sport. It's a concept he has never fully embraced, and probably never will. His ego has built blinders in his game that leave him out of the discussion, not worthy of mention with the true greats. He did say 3rd best guard in history. Pure talent, yes, I'll give that to you. He's the 3rd most talented guard in history. But as a complete player (not just his raw basketball skills), he's not even the 3rd best guard in Laker history.... A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanker. Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 The top 50 was NBA. Other than that, I was talking guards too... A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 I'm just completely stunned at how willing Lakers fans are willing to forgive someone just because that someone gives them a chance to win games. Talk about blinders... If Paul Pierce had threatened to hold out because Boston didn't surround him with talent, I'd have been the first person in line to say "fine, GTFO" Funny thing is, Paul Pierce never did that. Paul Pierce kept on, through scenarios ranging from playoff heartbreak to outright embarassment, until management finally figured out a way to put it all together. He didn't bitch or whine or threaten to quit, he just kept going out there and giving everything he had. Am I saying Paul Pierce is better than Kobe? Well, not as a pure talent, no. But as a man? Yes, I am. Real men do everything in their power to get the job done, even when they know the job is beyond their power to do. That's why Shaquille O'Neal called Paul Pierce "the m-fing truth" - because Paul Pierce went into LA that night and lit the Lakers up, and did everything he could do to win that game, even though there was no chance of winning. A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfD Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 I don't recall any bonafide superstar in basketball making such a demand. The real superstars busted their asses, doing everything they could to win a championship, and let the management do what they could to contribute. True of Jordan, Magic, Bird, Kareem, the list goes on and on. The really great players just busted their asses and played ball. Kobe, no, he was all set to hold out in '07 because he didn't think there was enough talent around him. Crock of SHIT, is what that is... Those cats did not play in a 24/7/365 news cycle. Everything they said and did was not looped and played repeated on ESPN and broadcast on the internet. Yet, folks have said that Jordan was a bonafide a-hole. We just didn't see it in every clip. Regardless of how one perceives Kobe's 'flaws' as a teammate and person, he will go down in basketball history as one of the greatest to ever play the game. PD "The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Those cats did not play in a 24/7/365 news cycle. Everything they said and did was not looped and played repeated on ESPN and broadcast on the internet. True - but do you not think that a threat to hold out, or a trade demand would not have been logged in the history books? Come on, MJ wasn't that long ago.... Yet, folks have said that Jordan was a bonafide a-hole. We just didn't see it in every clip. Just tells me he was better at keeping it to himself... Regardless of how one perceives Kobe's 'flaws' as a teammate and person, he will go down in basketball history as one of the greatest to ever play the game. No argument. When his career is over, we will all nod and say "that was one of the greats" Doesn't mean we have to like him. It was easier when jerks like Bill Laimbeer were around. He was a grade A a-hole, and it was ok to hate him because, when it came down to it, he wasn't going to the HoF anyway.... A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfD Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Griff, I think a lot of the a-hole tendencies of former superstars were kept under wraps. Different times. Nowadays, stars vent in public across the board. It isn't just Kobe. My point is, folks need to stop pushing these individuals into the stratosphere if they do not want droppings on their heads. PD "The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steadyb Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Funny. Kobe never bailed out on the Lakers, but Garnett totally bailed out on the t-wolves. Jumped ship and ran after he knew Ray Allen was also going there. And his accomplice a former celt, who couldn't put together a winner as a GM in Minnesota, so he gives away the team's best guy to his former team. And pierce is a thug and wannabe gangster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steadyb Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Grif is so jealous of Kobe and the Lakers he can't contain himself, babbling on in wordy post after wordy post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwhite9 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 his accomplice a former celt, who couldn't put together a winner as a GM in Minnesota, so he gives away the team's best guy to his former team. They haven't fired him yet. It was the ghost of Red Auberach talking to McHale. McHale as an ongoing Timberwolves employee ranks right up there with Isaih Thomas's reign at the Knicks for the 'there has to be an extortion deal going on. He destroyed that club not just once but three times' award. The long-term value in the deal wasn't Garnett considering they gave up two first round picks and Jefferson. The value was unloading the bad contracts of Theo Ratliff and Sebastian Telfair and getting an immediate pennant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Funny. Kobe never bailed out on the Lakers, but Garnett totally bailed out on the t-wolves. Jumped ship and ran after he knew Ray Allen was also going there. And his accomplice a former celt, who couldn't put together a winner as a GM in Minnesota, so he gives away the team's best guy to his former team. And pierce is a thug and wannabe gangster. See, now this, this is a bunch of hate, hate for the people that took the title away from your golden boy last year. 1) KG wanted to stay in Minnesota. He wasn't going to accept a trade anywhere unless it was somewhere he had a chance to win a title. 2) Kevin McHale didn't exactly "give" KG away. Al Jefferson is a beast in the making. You'll get to experience that full force next year, when he makes Bynum and Gasol look foolish in the paint... Oh wait - just about any quality center can do that now.... 3) Pierce is a thug? A gangsta wannabe? More proof of LA fans hating. Pierce is a native of Inglewood. He had to work his ass off just to make the high school team (he could have just asked for a transfer to make it easier, like Kobe, but...) Seems to me, Steady, LA people hate everyone else a lot more than we hate Lakers... A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Grif is so jealous of Kobe and the Lakers he can't contain himself, babbling on in wordy post after wordy post. Sorry you have such reading comprehension problems, Steady. Huked on Fonix werked fer Kobe... A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steadyb Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 PS: Why would a Celtics fan be jealous of Kobe and the Lakers when... 1) The Celtics have won a title more recently than the Lakers (last year vs 2003) 2) The Celtics have won more overall titles than the Lakers (17 vs 14, 9 if you only count the LA team) 3) The Celtics have won a higher percentage of title series than the Lakers (17-3, .850 vs 14-15, .482) PS: The latter stat holds true even if you want to throw out all those titles the Celtics won before you cared about basketball... A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan South Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 (addendum) I will stop hating Kobe the minute Kobe shows me the one thing I've not yet seen from him (or anyone else in the basketball world I truly hate): Some class. I'm still waiting for it. He doesn't even know what class is. He spent his whole career trying to live up to the thug life image that the NBA was, he doesn't know anything about class. I can't believe that I'm about to defend Kobe but he comes across as a classy person when he's not on the court. It's just his crybaby on-court presence that irks me. Like when Hedo stuffed Kobe's shot like Kobe was still in 6th grade - my favorite moment of the entire playoffs by the way. That was a totally clean defensive play and, missed lay up aside, put the Magic in a position to win the game. Hedo didn't touch Kobe, didn't even breathe on Kobe, but there's Kobe protesting with that angry, disgusted look on his face like Hedo just stole Kobe's bicycle, kicked his dog, and fondled his little sister. Boo-hoo-hoo! I'm Kobe Bryant! Nobody should be allowed to stuff me. Waaaaah! Okay, there, I'm done defending Kobe. The Black Knight always triumphs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Wow. As I was tooling around looking at Pierce/Bryant comparisons, I stumbled over something I never knew before (and just cements my feelings about Kobe...) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobe_bryant Bryant was chosen as the 13th overall draft pick by the Charlotte Hornets in 1996. However, according to Arn Tellem, Bryant's agent at the time, Bryant playing for the Charlotte Hornets was "an impossibility". Nevertheless, the Charlotte Hornets selected Bryant, seeing that there was a chance to trade with the Lakers. Prior to the draft, Bryant had worked out in Los Angeles, in which he scrimmaged against former Lakers players Larry Drew and Michael Cooper... So he pulled an Eli Manning and refused to play for the team that drafted him. Go figure. A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan South Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Funny. Kobe never bailed out on the Lakers, but Garnett totally bailed out on the t-wolves. Jumped ship and ran after he knew Ray Allen was also going there. And his accomplice a former celt, who couldn't put together a winner as a GM in Minnesota, so he gives away the team's best guy to his former team. And pierce is a thug and wannabe gangster. It's also funny how KG handed the Lakers a (probable) championship when he racked up his knee. * * * It's asterisk time! * * * 2008-2009 Los Angeles Lakers* (* made possible by Kevin Garnett's knee injury) The Black Knight always triumphs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 ... Like when Hedo stuffed Kobe's shot like Kobe was still in 6th grade - my favorite moment of the entire playoffs by the way. That was a totally clean defensive play and, missed lay up aside, put the Magic in a position to win the game. What pissed me off was the play where Mikael Pietrus defended him perfectly, Howard came over Pietrus' back to block Kobe's shot, and the refs inexplicably called a foul on nothing because there's just no way Kobe could attempt a shot like that and not be fouled... A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan South Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 That was disappointing. Orlando had numerous chances to win, but they just plain failed to execute when they needed to step up. Yep. Not quite ready for prime time. My thoughts exactly. It's not exactly like beating a healthy Celtics team (which Kobe will never do) or a health San Antonio team (which Kobe will never do) or beating the Billups-led Detroit (which Kobe could never do). These Orlando kids don't have any experience. KG's knee injury gave them a free pass that they didn't earn. The Black Knight always triumphs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan South Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 So he pulled an Eli Manning and refused to play for the team that drafted him. Go figure. Waaaah! I'm Kobe, and North Carolina isn't good enough for me! Waaaah! It was good enough for Jordan, but that's beside the point. The Black Knight always triumphs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanker. Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Waaaah! I'm Kobe, and North Carolina isn't good enough for me! Waaaah! It was good enough for Jordan, but that's beside the point. Or maybe that is the point... A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenElevenShadows Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 I can't believe that I'm about to defend Kobe but he comes across as a classy person when he's not on the court. It's just his crybaby on-court presence that irks me. Like when Hedo stuffed Kobe's shot like Kobe was still in 6th grade - my favorite moment of the entire playoffs by the way. That was a totally clean defensive play and, missed lay up aside, put the Magic in a position to win the game. Hedo didn't touch Kobe, didn't even breathe on Kobe, but there's Kobe protesting with that angry, disgusted look on his face like Hedo just stole Kobe's bicycle, kicked his dog, and fondled his little sister. Boo-hoo-hoo! I'm Kobe Bryant! Nobody should be allowed to stuff me. Waaaaah! Okay, there, I'm done defending Kobe. As I mentioned before, I think the guy's actually a complicated person. Off court, often he comes off as classy, occasionally not (Colorado, anyone?). On court, sometimes, he jokes around a lot with his teammates and opposing players and shows a lot of camaraderie. He was quite popular with the Olympic team as well. Other times, he whines at every call. He's really a lot of things. The one thing that I see that is consistent is his incredible work ethic and intensity. He's a blast to watch play. The guy is truly incredible, one of the greats. I'm not really into comparing one person to another. I just know that sometimes, when I watch the guy, I know I am watching *greatness*, pure and simple. Ken Lee Photography - photos and books Eleven Shadows ambient music The Mercury Seven-cool spacey music Linktree to various sites Instagram Nightaxians Video Podcast Eleven Shadows website Ken Lee Photography Pinterest Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfD Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 He's a blast to watch play. The guy is truly incredible, one of the greats. I'm not really into comparing one person to another. I just know that sometimes, when I watch the guy, I know I am watching *greatness*, pure and simple. Exactly. One minute I'm watching him pull off an amazing shot or assist. Decimating a team and helping his own. In the next instant, I'm telling him through the TV to keep his head in the f'n game and stop whining over ticky tack calls. PD "The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steadyb Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Loving the flurry of hater posts... Jeff knows it must mean a Laker title is near. This thread is finally reaching the level of fun of the NBA threads of the early 2000's Welcome back Dan South!!! Now we're talkin'! BTW, go Lakers!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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