Why aren't these guys BIG???

[mdrs]

We've discussed it before. Don't you think that these guys should be flying higher?

 

Kings X;

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_gKBwLsTu4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mABTVsKHwVM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ml6VmPTSp4M&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkBltfEqb7s&feature=related

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSsmT36FCcg&feature=related

 

 

[Hardtail]

Who knows? One of my favorite bands of the early 90s.

 

[Zephyr]

maybe they don't have that image thing?

 

I also think that songwriting more than skill contributes to commercial success. Sure a lot of those songs have some good guitar work, but maybe their catalog isn't the most memorable?

 

I truly don't know

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Erm... ok. Being brutally honest here...

 

 

Let me paraphrase this by saying that LOTS of bands have large followings without always making a dent on the charts, which are a world unto themselves.

 

Anyway... the first two songs, (that's actually 2 and 3 on your list, the first is no longer available) don't grab me at all. The first one doesn't go anywhere and the second is nice, but a bit dated. I've already forgotten what they sounded like, actually. The first one went verse, chorus, verse, chorus, and there's no buildup, no crescendo, none of that. It's kinda flat. The stage show is two guys staring at the audience. They should mix it up more among themselves, IMO.

 

The 3rd "It's Love" starts off with a nice 60s groove (uncool looking singer though... reminds me of Tiny Tim and is definitely not a chick magnet) and then goes into a quasi metal thing. I think they'd do better to keep the twee factor and the excellent Beach Boys harmonies to the fore and leave the grungy/metal guitar out of it. The solo's ok, but it steers too close to macho rock-pig territory. That Who style outro sounds a bit tacked on too. I basically hear it and go "so what *is* it?" The changing bits would piss off the various audiences, better to keep to one style throughout a song.

 

"Summerland" is not chart-friendly at all. The voice sounds too moany, and way too self-important. It's kind of dated these days too, as songs go, but by the hair styles I'd say it's an old vid anyway? Basically, the rock critics love is about being 16 and that sort of dead pan "Muh lerve" stuff doesn't appeal to the critics at all.

 

"Complain" doesn't seem to go anywhere either. Kind of flat.

 

"Alone/The Scene" is a bit better, IMO, but that stuff is just dated. Too many vocal lines, and they're not doing Bohemian Rhapsody, so they could have pared it down a bit.

 

But like I said, the charts are a world unto themselves, and lots of bands have large followings without getting much airplay.

 

Why aren't those guys on the charts? Well, because they don't sound like Coldplay, basically. Now, why COLDPLAY should be in the charts is a different matter altogether.

 

Sorry to be so honest, but hey. Tastes are what they are.

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Furthermore, I think ALL music has been stripped down to essentials. If you're going to do that sort of rock, chew on some live bats or something. Really GO for it. There's not much middle ground left, and melodic rock is probably too much of an oxymoron these days. Had they had more cookie monster vocals they probably would have fitted into some box a bit better.

 

Not that I necessarily want music to fit into boxes, but you asked "why aren't they bigger"? 'Cause they're hard to classify. Oh, and they don't sound like Coldplay either.

 

But I feel like an a*hole saying all this, and please don't take it personally, it ain't you on the vids.

[Fumblyfingers]

......reminds me of Tiny Tim and is definitely not a chick magnet)

 

He definitely is not trying to be a chick magnet..Pinnick is openly gay.

 

This is one of my favourite bands. Great writing, excellent arranging, nice harmonies etc etc. I think they have done well, but yeah they never really cracked it. In a sense that is a compliment.....so many retarded bands with little to no real musicianship make it all the way to the top....being truly talented today in pop/rock perhaps is the kiss of death.

 

I really like Kings X...Gretchen Goes to Nebraska, Dogman, KIngs X...great albums. Some of the harmonies are insane.

[mdrs]

......reminds me of Tiny Tim and is definitely not a chick magnet)

 

He definitely is not trying to be a chick magnet..Pinnick is openly gay.

 

This is one of my favourite bands. Great writing, excellent arranging, nice harmonies etc etc. I think they have done well, but yeah they never really cracked it. In a sense that is a compliment.....so many retarded bands with little to no real musicianship make it all the way to the top....being truly talented today in pop/rock perhaps is the kiss of death.

 

I really like Kings X...Gretchen Goes to Nebraska, Dogman, KIngs X...great albums. Some of the harmonies are insane.

 

I agree totally. I didn't even know them until I saw them live. They are impressive. All of what Fum said, and more. Their harmonies are Beatle-esk!!

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

He definitely is not trying to be a chick magnet..Pinnick is openly gay.

 

Well, there you ago, another reason why they're not on the charts. Not that charting is the be all and end all.

[Dr. Ellwood]

Don't like them at all, I heard some elements going on that I do respect yes, but the overall delivery I don't like. It seems almost every song has it's moments, and falls off somewhere to be not memorable.If I named 50 bands, they would not be in the top 50. I can see lots of reasons why they are not a commercial success.

[skipclone 1]

They are really talented. That may be the problem.

[Fumblyfingers]

He definitely is not trying to be a chick magnet..Pinnick is openly gay.

 

Well, there you ago, another reason why they're not on the charts. Not that charting is the be all and end all.

 

Why..because he is not trying to be a chick magnet?

[Gifthorse]

I think they had a bad image from thier first few albums and it was unclear whether they were a religious band.

 

I don't like all thier stuff. I love some of it and think they have a style all thier own.

 

My fav song minus the 'Ugh!' is Black the Sky. I always hated the ending and so did my band. We thought it was self defeating. Like make this incredible song that could have seen tons of radio and then ruin it with that ending with the poser 'UGH!' But thats personal pref I guess.

 

It still annoys me cuz they are one of my fav bands. They are like the Police in that they are a 3 piece and everyone counts equal.

 

I think they have better songs than the links but I know Utube is limited and live versions of King's X don't do thier INCREDIBLE live performance justice.

[GuitarPlayerFL]

 

I really like Kings X...Gretchen Goes to Nebraska,...

 

When I first heard Over My Head, I thought it was Robin Trower.

 

Bands like Coldplay get big because they have a very unique (and usually whiny) vocalist. James Blunt = whiny vocal and says "You're beautiful" over and over....things female buyers want to hear.

 

Does anybody know of any guys that bought the Blunt song?

[Fumblyfingers]

You have no idea how much I dislike whiny!!!!

[Guitarzan]

great band. why aren't they bigger?

the population isn't in to music, they are into throw away repetitive junk with stupid videos that please people with short attention spans. i forgot that all singers are required to be sexy to the opposite sex.

IMHO the music industry and the general population is F&%ked in the head.

and that is why they are not bigger.

 

[Billster]

Some of Pinnick's vocal stylings are little over the top to me. Gets shriekey. I like the harmony vocals that King's X employed alongside the heavy guitar stuff. That type of vocal stuff usually isn't placed next to heavy guitar. I liked the idea, but maybe most people who like vocal harmonies shied away from the heavy elements, and most people who liked the heavy elements shied away from the vocal style.

 

I'm not sure you can discount the religious angle as a "cuts both ways" factor either.

[The Bear Jew]

A friend's band toured with King's X three or four times over the years, playing 1,200-1,500 seat rooms. These were about four-month tours. The venues were usually close to being sold out most nights, but they were never any larger than 1,500-seaters.

 

Considering that King's X has been in the game for 20 or so years without any real marketing push, it seems to me the band's doing OK. These guys just kind of plow along, doing what they do for the core of fans who dig them. In the biggest picture, that's really not a bad deal at all.

 

Personally, the music isn't my cup of tea, but I can see why some people dig the band.

 

Semi-OT: my friend who toured with King's X says they're incredibly nice guys who sound amazing every single night--perfect harmonies and dead-on performances without fail. And Ty Tabor gave my buddy one of his amps at the end of the tour.

[Squ]

He definitely is not trying to be a chick magnet..Pinnick is openly gay.

 

Well, there you ago, another reason why they're not on the charts. Not that charting is the be all and end all.

 

Tell that to Freddie Mercury, Elton John and Rob Halford......

[Guitarzan]

all great vocals.

[mdrs]

A friend's band toured with King's X three or four times over the years, playing 1,200-1,500 seat rooms. These were about four-month tours. The venues were usually close to being sold out most nights, but they were never any larger than 1,500-seaters.

 

Considering that King's X has been in the game for 20 or so years without any real marketing push, it seems to me the band's doing OK. These guys just kind of plow along, doing what they do for the core of fans who dig them. In the biggest picture, that's really not a bad deal at all.

 

Personally, the music isn't my cup of tea, but I can see why some people dig the band.

 

Semi-OT: my friend who toured with King's X says they're incredibly nice guys who sound amazing every single night--perfect harmonies and dead-on performances without fail. And Ty Tabor gave my buddy one of his amps at the end of the tour.

 

Great story, Erik. I briefly met them at a meet and greet. All seemed very down to earth, easy to talk to. Their performance was absolutely top notch, kick arse, and right on.

 

That's very cool that Ty gave your bud an amp.

[fantasticsound]

15 years ago my manager absolutely loved Kings X and often had them playing in the back office. He couldn't say enough good things about them and, knowing I was a guitar player, expounded on their musicianship.

 

The music never did much for me. They are talented but... it just never meant much to me.

 

As to why they never reached that upper eschelon of national acts I can't say. Rush has always flitted with that last 1/2 a percent between very financially successful and famous acts and the giants who become icons, familiar to most everyone regardless of how they like or dislike them. More so for Marillion. I like Rush a lot but haven't heard much I care for from Marillion.

 

Beyond forces largely dictated by how a majority feels about the music, there's always the vast influence of the record industry. Rush succeeds in spite of their rather dismal (relatively speaking, that is) success with marketing over the years. They've thrived on rabid fans returning year after year to see their live performances. Why do they virtually sell out tours year after year without hit songs? Who knows.

 

I think Kings X has positioned themselves to fail at the highest reaches of the music industry but so what... They get to make the music they want, play to considerable if not huge audiences year after year... I doubt they'll ever be bigger than they are now but I can't imagine that's a bad thing.

[Fumblyfingers]

He definitely is not trying to be a chick magnet..Pinnick is openly gay.

 

Well, there you ago, another reason why they're not on the charts. Not that charting is the be all and end all.

 

Tell that to Freddie Mercury, Elton John and Rob Halford......

 

Precisely! Straight, gay, asexual, metro, uptown, downtown, crosstown, the othersideoftown......what have you.... has no bearing on the situation at all.

 

Nobody cares.....it's more about the music, marketing and what the public was into at the time they hit.....IMO.

[A String]

it's more about the music, marketing and what the public was into at the time they hit.....IMO.

 

Timing can have a lot to do with whether a band "makes it" or not. The public's willingness to accept a new band has a lot to do with what's going on at the time the new band comes out.

[Fumblyfingers]

it's more about the music, marketing and what the public was into at the time they hit.....IMO.

 

Timing can have a lot to do with whether a band "makes it" or not. The public's willingness to accept a new band has a lot to do with what's going on at the time the new band comes out.

 

Yeah and I think you tend to wear it once they have pigeonholed you. It is very hard to change direction or what have you , especially as a new band.

 

That's why I have not made it yet, because I really want to know my market and be certain of my direction before I launch.........

[Billster]

That's why I have not made it yet, because I really want to know my market and be certain of my direction before I launch.........

 

See, there's no way of predicting it. Listening to pop music in 1977, would anyone of said "Van Halen will one day be the biggest rock band around".?

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Well, Lister... If I have to explain why having a chick magnet frontman is important in achieving record sales, then you probably wouldn't understand it anyway!

 

As far as Messrs Halford, John and Mercury go, remember that they had rather good record sales before they came out as being gay, Elton John going to the point of actually getting married. And while neither Halford nor Elton John are exactly Greek gods, I've met lots of women of all ages who found Freddy Mercury rather attractive.

 

And while I'm not familiar with Judas Priest's music, I honestly don't think you can compare Queen and Elton John's songwriting with King X's.

 

But like I said, charting is not necessarily the be all and end al of a music career. Lots of bands do rather well without ever hitting the top 40.

[The Bear Jew]

Riiight.... and there were absolutely no clues that any of these fellers was gay.

 

http://medias.ados.fr/people/1/4/1457/Freddie-Mercury/photos/11991-i-want-to-break-free---.jpg

 

http://passzio.hu/kepek/koncertek/rob_halford_55.jpg

 

http://www.planetout.com/images/slides/slideshows/eltonjohn.jpg

 

Nope. Nobody could have guessed.

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Bah... there's a LOT of people out there that don't look too closely at stuff.

 

Back in the 80s, my father was thinking of getting a short haircut and shaving his beard off and keeping a well trimmed moustache, which would have made him look like some sort of daddy Castro St. clone. He had no idea that that's what gays looked like.

[The Bear Jew]

I'm teasing, of course. I think the bigger reason King's X didn't get hugely famous was because the band just didn't have that "X" factor (no pun intended) at its prime.

 

Plenty of folks LOVE this band. Look at it this way, these guys have managed to maintain a fairly steady career in music (which is notoriously difficult) with basically no radio support or chart appearances. They still sell enough records to not be dropped and continue to make a living through touring and recording. They may not be a "great successs" (to quite Borat), but they're doin' alright. That's more then most folks would ask.

[MILLO]

maybe the problem is being a rock band w/ a frontman who's a black gay christian who doesn't look particularly clean-cut? Set for commercial failure right there, LOL!

 

Anyhow, they're good performers, etc but their hooks and vocal melodies don't appeal to me. Their playing, performance and the way they put their music together does, though. They way they pull of their vocal harmonies is awesome. But in the end, if the vocal melodies and guitar riffs, the chords/harmonies they use don't appeal to me, regardless how simple or complex all these may be, it really won't grab me. It seems to me these elements might be WHY they're not a bigger act... while I'm not part of "the crowd" when to comes to other acts, maybe most people share this appreciation w/ me.