Korg M3 vs. Yamaha Motif XS

[synthdogg]

Okay....Most of us haven't played either of these keyboards, and the M3 isn't even out yet. I remember reading a thread where someone was posting about the Motif XS from the NAMM show, really liking it and comparing it to the Korg, calling the Korg "not ready for prime time" or something to that effect.

 

Has anyone else had a chance to see the 2 of these at a trade show or anywhere else? I'm in the process of redoing my keyboard rig, and I'm going to include one of these two, and I'm leaning towards the M3 mostly because of the touch screen and the removable module from the keyboard.

 

Any input and expeiences are more than welcome.

[SilverDragonSoun]

I think your really going to have to wait until they both come out before you can accurately get the information you seek.

[Yoozer]

I've seen the M3 at the Messe in Frankfurt. I'd pick that because it's expandable with the Radias board and because if you no longer like the keyboard, you can just put it in front of you and hook an 88-key version up to that; with most rack modules you'll lose functionality of some sort.

 

Mixing what the Radias board does with the regular stuff sounds really good. Karma's lots of fun to play with, too .

 

The XS seems to me like a "bigger hammer" kind of thing; more memory, more polyphony, but the same old machine under the hood.

[Dave Bryce]

One of the things I found most compelling about the M3 was it's keybed - it's a brand new one, and it feels fantastic - really smooth and fast.

 

dB

[synthdogg]

Were you playing the 88 note or the synth action? (thanks for the response)

[Song80s]

I will likely get both

 

But the Radias is a non-factor for me

[Martin Hines]

Were you playing the 88 note or the synth action? (thanks for the response)

 

It would have to be the 61-key synth action, since the 73-key and 88-key are no where to be seen yet.

 

In Japan, the M3-M and M3-61 are already available, but the M-73 and M-88 won't be (in Japan) until June 21st:

http://www.excite.co.jp/world/english/web/proceeding/?wb_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ishibashi.co.jp%2Fwebshop%2Fsynth-dtm%2Fsynth%2Fkorg%2Fm3.htm&wb_lp=JAEN&wb_dis=2

 

[Dave Bryce]

Were you playing the 88 note or the synth action? (thanks for the response)

I was playing the 61.

 

dB

[delirium]

M3 looks very nice, just watched this demo:

M3 quick demo

 

controls looks very impressive, especially that touch screen.

I interested in more comparison M3 to XS since I've almost decided to go with XS, somehow I never considered korg workstations, maybe it was mistake. Always been between roland and yamaha.

Are these M3 keys semi weighted?

[Song80s]

The M3 keys Are semi weighted. says so at the Korg website

 

on the other hand I see no info that confirms that the XS6/7 keys are semi weighed. I recall b.busch said they are, but I can't confirm it

 

As I mentioned before, I played the XS7 and the keyboard feel was nothing special.

 

I plan a return visit to GC to jam on the XS for another hour

 

I think its difficult to choose between the XS and M3. Both is the answer. I expect the M3 to be a another great w/s

 

 

[delirium]

 

As I mentioned before, I played the XS7 and the keyboard feel was nothing special.

 

you played XS7 and you cannot tell whether it was weighted or not?

[Song80s]

you know the difference between weighed and semi weighed and not weighed (synth action) ?

 

I do

[burningbusch]

The XS is definately semi-weighted, if by semi-weighted you mean there is metal (weight) under the key. You can feel it if you put your finger under the key or look underneath, you'll see it. Roland has been doing this with the Fantom series for several years. The Novation Remote keyboards do this which is why they feel better than any other controller. I am always stunned when a manufacturer will bring out a high-end synth with unweighted actions. When I check out any synth I also run my finger under a key to see if I can feel the weight.

 

If Korg has a great feeling action on the M3 as db states above, congrats. That's a first for them, as far as I'm concerned.

 

Busch.

[delirium]

you know the difference between weighed and semi weighed and not weighed (synth action) ?

 

I do

 

I don't care what is the technical difference, when have option to play myself I know at once whether it feels good or not (having acoustic piano action in mind).

[delirium]

Specifications of M3 looks not bad at all comparing to Motif XS...

 

Display

320 x 240 dot color TouchView GUI

 

Control Inputs

Damper Pedal (half damper pedaling supported), Assignable Switch, Assignable Pedal

 

Audio Outputs

L/MONO, R

INDIVIDUAL-1, 2, 3, 4

S/P DIF (optical 24-bit, 48 kHz)

Headphones

 

Audio Input

1, 2 (level switch (MIC/LINE), level knob)

S/P DIF (optical 24-bit, 48 kHz)

 

MIDI

IN, OUT, THRU

 

Interface

2 USB type A connectors(for storage devices)

USB type B connector (for MIDI interface, USB 2.0 supported)

2 FireWire ports (when EXB-FW (separately sold option) installed)

TO KYBD (for connection to keyboard assembly unit)

 

Current Consumption

35 W

 

Accessories

AC cord

CD-ROM (M3 Editor stand alone and plug-in versions)

 

Keyboard Assembly Unit

Keyboard

61-key, 73-key (Korgs new keyboard, semi-weighted), 88-key weighted action (RH3: Real

Weighted Hammer Action 3 keyboard)

Controllers

Joystick, Ribbon Controller, [sW1], [sW2]

Interface

TO MODULE (for connection to M3-M tone generator module)

TO MODULE (second) (available on 73-key and 88-key)

 

M3 Options

EXB-FW

FireWire Board

EXB-M256

256 Mbyte Sample Memory Expansion Board

EXB-RADIAS

RADIAS Synthesizer Board

EX-USB-PCM series

PCM Expansion USB Memory devices

XVP-10

EXP/VOL Pedal

EXP-2

Foot Controller

DS-1H

Damper Pedal

PS-1

Pedal Switch

 

Tone Generator

256 Mbyte (when converted to 16-bit linear format)

1,028 Multisamples

1,606 Drum Samples

 

Sampling

16-bit, linear, 48 kHz mono/stereo sampling, resampling available (Open Sampling System)

64 Mbyte memory standard (expandable up to 320 Mbyte with EXB-M256 option)

1,000 Multisamples, 4,000 Samples, 128 indexes per sample

supports Korg format, AIFF, WAV, AKAI S1000/S3000 (advanced Program conversion),

SoundFont 2.0 reading

 

Polyphony

120 voices, 120 oscillators in Single Mode / 60 voices, 120 oscillators in Double Mode

 

Effects

5 Insert Effects (stereo in/out), 2 Master Effects (stereo in/out), 1 Total Effect

(stereo in/out) are available simultaneously

2 effect control busses, 2 effect common LFOs

170 types (can be used for Insert/Master/Total)

 

Sounds

Programs

1,664 user locations, 640 preloaded (512 EDS+128 RADIAS) (with EXB-RADIAS option installed)

Combinations

1,792 user locations, 384 preloaded

Drumkits

144 user locations, 32 preloaded

GM

256 GM2 programs, 9 GM2 drum kits

 

Sequencer

16-track MIDI sequencer with 480 ppq resolution

128 Songs, 20 Cue Lists, 210,000 notes (max)

150 preset patterns, 100 user patterns (per Song)

Standard MIDI File (SMF) format 0 and 1 available

 

RPPR (Realtime Pattern Play/Recording)

a set of patterns available per Song

 

Drum Track

Over 500 preset patterns/user patterns TBD

 

KARMA

one KARMA module available in Program Mode, four KARMA modules available in Combination

and Sequencer Mode

Over 2,000 preset GEs (Generated Effect)

8 scenes, 8 sliders, 8 switches

KARMA Wave Sequence, Freeze Randomize, Time Signature Control, Auto RTC (Realtime

Control) Setup

 

Controllers

Control Surface (8 sliders, 8 switches)

[KARMA ON/OFF]

[KARMA LATCH]

[CHORD ASSIGN]

[DRUM TRACK ON/OFF]

[PAD MODE]

[KARMA MODULE CONTROL]

X-Y Control (Display)

8 Pads

 

[synthdogg]

I don't know about you guys, but this blurb on the M3 gets me very excited:

 

"A plug-in version of M3 Editor is also provided, so you can use it from within your DAW as a plug-in instrument. The editor runs as a VST, AU or RTAS plug-in for maximum compatibility. For even more complete integration, Korgs new Virtualized Hardware concept comes into play. When the optional EXB-FW FireWire board is installed, a single FireWire cable will convey both the M3s MIDI and audio signals to the tracks of your DAW in which the plug-in is running. This means that you can construct a highly integrated environment that adds the reliability of hardware to your software music production system, adding additional power to your virtual world."

 

If this thing performs the way it's advertised, it seems perfect for me.

[burningbusch]

SImilar idea with the Motif XS:

 

Today's music production is highly dependent on software, and the MOTIF XS is designed to work seamlessly and transparently in your computer-based environment. The Remote Control mode lets you control your DAW software right from the panel of the MOTIF XS - for example, starting and stopping playback/recording with the special transport buttons, changing track levels with the sliders, and tweaking parameters with the knobs.

 

The MOTIF XS is also compatible with the MOTIF XS Editor - a comprehensive, easy-to-use editing software program that lets you edit (via USB connection) the Mixing setups and Mixing Voices to be used for Song/Pattern playback directly on your computer. The MOTIF XS Editor is free and can be downloaded from the Yamaha website. Naturally, the editor can be used within Cubase as part of Studio Connections, and all settings can be saved with each project for instant recall.

 

If Cubase is not yet part of your software arsenal, a copy of the new Cubase AI is bundled with the instrument, letting you dive in and start using the versatile features of Studio Connections right out of the box. Cubase AI is a full-featured music production software that integrates fully with the MOTIF XS, and can easily be upgraded to Cubase 4. It gives you all the tools to produce professional level recordings - quickly and easily - with a system that you can expand into the future.

 

The mLAN16E2 lets you connect your Motif XS to your computer via mLAN (Firewire Music Networking) and communicate all of your MIDI and audio data via a single Firewire cable.

 

The mLAN16E2 transforms the Motif ES into a 16 channel output, 8 channel input computer audio interface. This allows you, simultaneously to record 14 individual output channels plus the stereo mix to your computer. In addition, the Motif XS's 2 A/D inputs can be used to record other instruments into your computer. Connect a Mic or Guitar to the Motif XS's A/D inputs and even use insert effects as you record.

 

During playback you can bring 4 stereo busses from your DAW back into the ES to be monitored at the Motif XS's stereo analog output. At this time you can apply additional Motif XS system and master effects to these busses. The incredible effects contained in the Motif ES can be utilized without putting any load on your computer's CPU.

 

The Motif XS with mLAN16E2 can also be used in combination with other mLAN products such as the 01X and i88X to further expand your system. If Motif XS forms part of your rig the mLAN16E2 is, simply, a must.

 

The mLAN16E2 card transforms the Motif XS into :

An Audio interface

A MIDI interface

A Hardware accelerated DSP effects processor for your computer DAW

 

Busch.

[gangsu]

Was that post written in your own words?

YOu know what's ever funnier, I almost understand it. I gotta stop reading this $@#!

 

[burningbusch]

You know Keyboard Magazine is now found in the Men's Interest section at Barnes and Noble. What do you think about that, Sue????

 

Maybe you should contact Gloria Steinem to organize a protest. Right this injustice.

 

Busch.

 

 

[gangsu]

haha, pardon me Busch. It's not your fault my eyes are crossing.

 

I just wish I would have picked up the mag 20 years ago. You'd have nothin' on me. Hardly.

 

 

 

 

 

[Martin Hines]

If Korg has a great feeling action on the M3 as db states above, congrats. That's a first for them, as far as I'm concerned.

 

Busch.

 

I assume you feel the same way about Yamaha workstations up through the Motif ES 6&7?

 

You do realize that most (if not all) of the high-end Korg 61 and 76 key workstations have a Yamaha FS action in them(even including the M1).

[delirium]

SImilar idea with the Motif XS:

 

Today's music production is highly dependent on software, and the MOTIF XS is designed to work seamlessly and transparently in your computer-based environment. The Remote Control mode lets you control your DAW software right from the panel of the MOTIF XS - for example, starting and stopping playback/recording with the special transport buttons, changing track levels with the sliders, and tweaking parameters with the knobs.

 

that's was available long time ago e.g. in S90ES

and I guess in motif ES too.

 

[Bill H.]

From a sound designer's standpoint, even though I haven't played one yet, I'll take the XS over the M3 because it has 8 independent programming lines per voice, versus just 2 on the M3. Korg hasn't expanded this basic building block of sound construction on their synths since the M1 almost 20 years ago, while Yamaha and Roland has long ago moved on. But I like getting right in there and making my own sounds from scratch on workstations, and Korg knows very well there are not many players that do.

[Dave Bryce]

Were you playing the 88 note or the synth action? (thanks for the response)

 

It would have to be the 61-key synth action, since the 73-key and 88-key are no where to be seen yet.

I seem to recall seeing both of them on display at the Musik Messe a few weeks ago...

 

Neither one was plugged in, but you could feel the keybed action on both.

 

dB

[Song80s]

thats funny, I can NEVER find Keyboard at Barnes & Noble. Silly me, I was looking in music/art

 

All those Guitar mags are too much

[synthdogg]

In response to:

Poster: burningbusch

Subject: Re: Korg M3 vs. Yamaha Motif XS

 

SImilar idea with the Motif XS:

 

Thanks Busch, that sounds cool for the XS.

 

Personally, the thing that reallly grabs me is the idea of the editor working as an AU plug...It seems to be the same idea as the Virus TI where I could really set up the M3 to work like a plug-in when I'm in the studio, both Audio and MIDI.....and still tuck the module under my arm and run out to a session or live gig. I just hope it actually works.

I'm also a little wary reading the Yamaha press release about "Cubase" and "mLan"...I understand those are Yamaha products and they'll work themselves into a release......but I don't use Cubase or any mLan products, and don't want to buy into any "exclusive" technologies.

 

Busch, are you the one that posted about the XS from the NAMM show? You also made some comments that seemed like you were down on the M3....could you speak into that a little more? Or was it someone else?

thanks, man!

[geoela]

I have been reading negative reviews about the Rhodes piano sound, all guitar, and all horn sounds in the Korg Triton Extreme. Can someone who owns one of these boards tell me what they think of them? I've heard demos and they sound fine to me.

 

Also, the new M3 seems to be a scaled down version of the OASYS. If this is so, could it be that the samples are the same in the M3 as in the OASYS? Are these new M3 sounds that much better that those found on the Triton Extreme?

 

George

 

[synthdogg]

That's a hard one to answer. I'm not crazy about the piano/rhodes/most of the horn sounds in the Triton series. I've listened to the M3 demos, and it still sounds pretty "Korgy" to me with that whole midrangy thing going on.

If piano/rhodes in a workstation setting is what is very important to you, definitely check out the Motif. I really prefer the Motif to the Triton when it comes to those instruments....but you really have to search for the right instrument for you.

For instance, while I personally prefer the pianos/rhodes in the Motif compared to the Triton, I still don't like the pianos/rhodes in the Motif very much and choose to use other souces for theose sounds.....so those sounds don't tend to be very important to me in a workstation. That's me, though.

 

Don't know if that helps or not....

 

[Song80s]

"negative reviews about the Rhodes piano sound, all guitar, and all horn sounds in the Korg Triton Extreme. Can someone who owns one of these boards tell me what they think"

 

we are getting off topic with that ( given we are on M3 vs XS)

 

I own the Extreme 76.

I agree with synthdog- if you need closest authenticty to the orginal Rhodes or a Strat, the Extreme may not be your taste. But the Extreme EP's, guitars, horns are VERY useable and certainly sound good to me. Nothing ' negative' there

[Martin Hines]

Also, the new M3 seems to be a scaled down version of the OASYS.

Korg will release an "OASYS Light" someday, but the M3 is not it. There are four items the M3 leverages from the OASYS:

-- the M3's new sound generator (EDS -- Enhanced Definition System) is based on the design of the OASYS' HD engine

-- very similar Karma implentation

-- similar multi-purpose control surface

-- some samples

 

The M3 has its own custom sound generator chip as opposed to the OASYS which uses a PC processor. Also the M3 does not have the other "engines" of the OASYS (AL-1, CX-3, STR-1, and LAC-1).

 

If this is so, could it be that the samples are the same in the M3 as in the OASYS?

While the M3 does have some OASYS samples, the OASYS contains 1,130 MB of samples (Sound ROM) while the M3 has 256 MB of samples.

 

Are these new M3 sounds that much better that those found on the Triton Extreme?

Korg definitely believes they are better, but "how much better" will have to be determined by each individual.