Ricardo. Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 I'm hearing a lot of harmonized guitar solos recently: elaborate, long, perfect dual-guitar minor 3rd attacks in the fields of -core. Though I can buy a pedal and get the same tonal effect, I admit that actual, dual guitars will sound better than a pedal that drops the pitch a minor 3rd. My question is, have any metal bands expanded upon the harmonized lead to incorporate counterpoint, as opposed to a lightning, sometimes thrilling, static interval assault? I am very ignorant on the subject; and I'm interested in hearing it executed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billster Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 Iron Maiden used to be good at that. Judas Priest did some of that on their early albums. Buy my CD on CD Baby! Bill Hartzell - the website MySpace?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdrs Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 Nothing like guitar harmonies....From the Allmans to Metalica.....it really adds a lot to a songs appeal. Don "There once was a note, Pure and Easy. Playing so free, like a breath rippling by." http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=574296 http://www.myspace.com/imdrs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xplorer Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 Check out Unearth. What a horrible night to have a curse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 Originally posted by Ricardo.: My question is, have any metal bands expanded upon the harmonized lead to incorporate counterpoint, as opposed to a lightning, sometimes thrilling, static interval assault? I am very ignorant on the subject; and I'm interested in hearing it executed. Well, there's not very much of it out there - I've always loved counterpoint guitar vs. strict harmony guitar, but it does require a LOT of tightness between the two guitarists. Charlie and I are just starting to delve into counterpoint in our band. Little flashes here and there right now, but we do have an absolutely massive prog epic we're currently working on that we're developing dual-lead work for, and I expect there to be plenty of it when we get that monstrosity finished... A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc taz Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 Pain of Salvation does a lot of counterpoint runs in their music. It's probably the best of its kind I've heard in most prog metal bands these days. sevenstring.org profile my flickr page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MILLO Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 Maiden, Priest, Allman, Metallica do exactly what he's saying is commonly done but don't explore actual counterpoint... which is when people playing different MELODIES that complement each other, sometimes based on similar motifs and often times moving in contrary motion. The somewhat vague, introductory definition from the wikipedia article on Counterpoint: "In music, counterpoint is a texture involving the simultaneous sounding of separate melodies or lines "against" each other, as in polyphony. It has most commonly been identified in Western music, developing strongly in the Renaissance, and also dominant in much of the common practice period, especially in Baroque music. The term comes from the Latin punctus contra punctum ("note against note"). The adjectival form contrapuntal shows this Latin source more transparently." What rockers call "harmony guitars" are one-melody passages harmonized for the most part on the same interval, be it diatonic or chromatic. This interval often times has to be changed at some point to fit the chrod of the moment, depending on how it is/what is done. "Without music, life would be a mistake." --from 'Beyond Good and Evil', by Friedrich Nietzsche My MySpace Space Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justus A. Picker Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 You might have to look to Yingweeeee and other neo-classical players trying to channel Bach to find true counterpoint. http://www.smokedsalmonband.com/exile/exile1.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 Yngwie doesn't do counterpoint, though. He's a one-man-act. Other instruments exist in his band strictly so his over-saturated runs don't sound foolish a capella... A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Madness Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 Originally posted by Griffinator: Yngwie doesn't do counterpoint, though. He's a one-man-act. Other instruments exist in his band strictly so his over-saturated runs don't sound foolish a capella... Many, many guitar counterpoint lines in his recorded output though. Some taken directly from classical pieces and others written by him. He does have the keyboard player play some of his guitar parts live for some songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 I stand corrected! I'm so used to that high-speed scalloped-fret noodling that I never noticed any harmony... A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gifthorse Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 In the 80's that was big. I remember a heavy metal collaboration with Jason Becker and Marty Friedman called cacophony symphony. Some pretty cool guitar solos. http://flagshipmile.dmusic.com/ http://www.myspace.com/gifthorse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric VB Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 I thought the whole point of metal was to have everyone in the bang chugging away on exactly the same riff simultaneously? Don't forget that your bass player can play counter, too. Works great in a power trio! But I've never heard the bass in a metal band do anything other than mirror/shadow the rhythm guitar part, often buried under the distorted guitar to the point where you can't really hear it. Even harder to hear the bass if the guitar has more than 6 strings. But yeah, educate me. I don't know a lot of metal, especially the new stuff. If "prog metal" is a derivation of progressive rock, that'd be the first place I'd look to find counter melodies. Especially bands that include keys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 Prog Metal is definitely kin to Prog Rock - just a hell of a lot harder-edged. See Dream Theater, Sonata Arctica, Fates Warning, etc. Definitely loads of counterpoint, compound time sigs, 13:00 self-indulgent solo segments ... I love it! A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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