How on earth can we gloss over sending 19 year old girls to Iraq?

[KenElevenShadows]

Henchman and GZSound are making points that make sense and are not diametrically opposed. Why this fighting is occurring is beyond me. Perhaps in the near future, we may not have to send very many 19 year old women - or men - to the Middle East anymore. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Los Angeles Times, Sunday 20 April 2003 By Esther Schrader, Times Staff Writer WASHINGTON -- With the threat of Saddam Hussein all but extinguished and Arab suspicions of American intentions running deep, senior administration officials say the U.S. military has begun taking steps to significantly reduce its presence in much of the Middle East. Last week's quiet removal of 30 of the 80 fighter jets and almost half the 4,500 personnel from Incirlik Air Base in Turkey, where the U.S. has maintained thousands of troops since the 1991 Persian Gulf War, is just the beginning, officials said. Within months, the Pentagon plans to close down most of its operations at Prince Sultan Air Base in Saudi Arabia, leaving only a skeleton crew, and to move most of its aircraft and troops out of Qatar and Oman. [url=http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/iraq/world/la-war-footprint20apr20,1,2237803.story?coll=la%2Dhome%2Dheadlines]more...[/url]

[GZsound]

[b]man, you really are an idiot aren't you. For one, I am an American, asswipe. Second, it's pathetic that for alot of people in the US it's their ONLY option to get an education. I'm sure there are numerous people that sign up for that reason alone. Ask NYCDrew about the person he knows who's son died in this war. He was one of those who's only option for an education was to join the military. BTW, I support the troops in Iraq, and I'm glad they're over there and have gotten rid of Saddam and his regime. What I don't support is Bush and his big business love affair, and wouldn't vote for him if he was running against a chimpansee.[/b] Sorry to hear you consider yourself an American, asswipe..that must hurt. I guess your premise is that because some have no other option to get an education, they must join the military and thus it is not their fault they get sent to war? Let me explain my premise to you..Mr. asswipe. I joined the military in 1967. I started at the Army recruiting office and worked my way through all the services. I asked the same question of all of them..."I would like to get into electronics and would be interested in joining your service if you can provide me some education". After some answers I didn't like, I got the answer I liked, joined for four years, spent a year and a half in intensive electronics school and then went to Vietnam. There was a war going on when I joined. Contrary to what you may think, not all 19 year olds are idiots. Your being an "American" has nothing to do with it. Education is provided to all our citizens for free by law in this country. There are many, many options for getting continuing education, community college education, on line education, or even free public library education. There are government grants, community education programs, social programs, etc. Your premise that someone is forced to join the military in order to get an education because you know somebody that knows somebody that has a friend that has a nephew that talked to someone that had to join to get an education is silly.. I'm sorry for anybody who has given their life for our country, but if you join the fire department, you must be smart enough to realize there might be a fire you will be expected to fight. Your support of the troops is a good thing. Your lack of support for Mr. Bush and his big business connections is understandable. However, if that is your criteria for not supporting a politician...you obviously don't support any of them. I mean, you are a fair minded thinker, right? The federal government just awarded a huge contract to Bechtel Corporation for infrastructure rebuilding in Iraq. No bids, no competition...doesn't that piss you off? And to make it worse, Bechtel gives huge amounts of money to political parties. If fact, they give 60% of all their political contributions to the democrats. hmmmm... However, thanks for the nice attack. It's nice to be called an idiot and an asswipe in less than two sentences. Really gives credence to your complete lack of coherent thought in your reply..

[Henchman]

You jkust will not accept the fact that for alot of people, if they want to get a real education, they have to do it by joining the army. That should never have to be an option. Period. I didn't say 19 yaer olds are stupid. I didn't say they are idiots for joining the army. I also have no problem with people who join the army. Whgat i do have a problem with is that the richest country in the world does not have a decent healthcare system in place for those who cannot afford it. Same goes for the educational system.

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

[quote]Originally posted by Henchman: [b]You jkust will not accept the fact that for alot of people, if they want to get a real education, they have to do it by joining the army.[/b][/quote]God, what a load of crap. The military offers one way to get enough money to go to college. I put myself through college by working at retail stores full time while going to school full time. I had to settle for a state university instead of a private school, since that's all I could afford. But I mamanged to get a bachelor's degree with no financial support from my parents or my government. This idea that you're spouting...that being in the military is the only possible way these people would get higher education...is simply not true. Don't forget about scholarships and grants, either. A 19 year old person is an adult. Women have all the reasoning power that men have. I see NOTHING wrong with Jessica Lynch being in a combat situation if she chose to be there. - Jeff

[Tedly Nightshade]

For the record (scary thought), I concur that 19 year old girls are usually much more intelligent that 19 year old boys. And I do think that we're all capable of making truly regrettable decisions long after that age... These army recruiting tactics are blatantly dishonest- the posters that say "you can't do this on drugs" showing fighter planes zipping around (at what an unconscionable expense in resources), and in reality the majority of the pilots are on speed and/or sedatives, prescribed by the army doctors. So you pays your nickel, you takes your chances, and if you're dismembered as a result, tough, you're the one who paid your nickel and took your chances. And to be more empathetic than that, is clearly a liability in a world like this one. As far as education- there are two aspects to that. One is the certificate of continual obedience, also known as a degree. It indicates that the recipient did whatever was required, however irrelevant and arbitrary, by those in a position to give the obedience certificate. I should know, I have one from one of the toughest schools in the US. To my shame. The other aspect is the accumulation of knowledge and understanding, and anywhere books are available and can be read, and there are other intelligent people to talk to, this can be pursued, regardless of the issuing of obedience certificates. A library is a great thing, a cheap used book store is a great thing, and an intelligent and learned person to discuss ideas with is a great thing as well. The last is the hardest to obtain, but well worth the search.

[Henchman]

I would like to apologize to GZSound for calling him what I did. I'm sorry, I got carried away. This isn't meant as sarcasm.

[GZsound]

Hey, don't worry about it. I know perfectly well I can be a pain in the butt at times and being called an idiot is nothing new. However, I can't recall being called an asswipe recently..:-). Thanks for the apology, I appreciate it..

[whitefang]

[quote]Originally posted by Eurotrash sunsetman: [b] [quote]Originally posted by Super 8: [b]The legal drinking age is decided at the state level. It has nothing to do with the age of enlistment to the armed services. In Wisconsin it used to be that you could drink at 18. Trust me, I remember -but it's a little blurry. I live just minutes from the border. I don't know if other states have different ages. I know there was a push nationwide to get it bumped up to 21 -but it wasn't a requirement. Where my wife went to college, you could drink at 18 around campus -maybe you needed a student ID, I don't know.[/b][/quote]18? I never saw that anywhere in the states yet. Not that I have a problem with it, but it's weird getting carded for everything for someone who is used to a 16y drinking age (for beer and wine, 18 for liquor). But I guess in I few years I'll be glad to be carded, that means I still look young :) Drinking age vs. enlistment age? Hey, that makes my Stones song quote at the bottom finally relevant (sort of) :p [/b][/quote]As a matter of fact, the drinking age was lowered in Michigan to 18 in 1972. By 1976 or so, it was raised back to 21 because statistics proved the 18 year olds couldn't handle it responsibly. The voting age was lowered the same year and still remains. As for women in combat, it IS true that Israeli women have been given combat duty for 30 years or more, and handle it quite well. Many people are still again' it in this country for several boneheaded reasons. The most boneheaded reason was given by a co-worker of mine whose father was a lifer in the air force, and thinks this makes him some kind of authority. He claims it was his father's reason. The claim is women shouldn't go into combat because, "What if she's in a combat situation, and an enemy soldier pops up that resembles her son? She'd hesitate long enough to endanger her life, and the lives of her squad!" Which completely ignors the logic that for that to happen these days, the woman's age would have to be at the average of 38-40. Not likely any woman that age would be sent. Not many MEN that age see combat unless they're officers. That woman's son would also have to look middle eastern. I don't know about any of you, but all the footage I've seen from Baghdad didn't reveal any blond-haired, blue-eyed Iraqiis! Like I said, boneheaded reasons! Whitefang

[D. Gauss]

<< How on earth can we gloss over sending 19 year old girls to Iraq? >> because somebody always has to get fucked. and... who would you rather fuck? a 19 old girl? or a fifty-something year old, fat, greedy, oil-loving politician? :) -d. gauss

[Curve Dominant]

If a 19 year old girl wants to fly an Apache helicopter on an attack mission in Iraq, then let them have at it. It's a volunteer force we have. Those countries don't let their women drive, vote, or even go out in public alone. I think it's pretty cool that our girls go fight wars. USA Girls Rule. What's to gloss over??? How is that a bad thing? [img]http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/ah64d003.jpg[/img]

[michael saulnier]

During the war coverage they interviewed a 20 something F-16 pilot. She talked about how she preferred to fly alone, since no one could second guess her decisions... Tough chick. But VERY professional. She wasn't there because she had no choices... She was doing EXACTLY what she chose to do. With deadly skill, excellent morale, and a strong sense of duty. USA Women Warriors... RAWK. guitplayer

[PBBPaul]

FWIW, the "Age of Majority" or legal age of adulthood where one is considered old enough to vote, wed, drink and generally be responsible for oneself was established by the federal govt' to be 18 in 1972. Previously, it was 21 but pressure from soldiers (who were eligible for the draft at 18) and anti-war activists caused it to be lowered. It's true that states do have the right to set their own drinking age. Wisconsin, where beer drinking is a huge part of the culture, kept theirs at 18 while many other states rose theirs. It wasn't until the mid-80s that the federal govt', under pressure from the anti-alcohol lobby, began to blackmail states into raising their drinking ages by witholding highway funds. Eventually, Wisconsin succumbed. Personally, I didn't care at the time because I was over 18 but I was upset at the apathy of the 18-year-olds who complained but didn't vote. The same blackmail from the same sources is happening again now. Wisconsin's legal level of intoxication was .1%. The federal govt' threatened to withold highway funds unless it was lowered to .08%. Guess what? It's now .08%. The reason this stuff upsets me now is that when the drinking age was 18 and the level of intoxication was .1%, the clubs were full and hiring lots of bands. Now, people are afraid to go out to clubs and our gigs are drying up faster than ever. Never mind that whenever there's an alcohol related death, it always seems to be a 45-year-old with a .2% blood alcohol level and a history of having his license revoked. Why can't they just enforce the laws that exist? Oops, sorry for going off on a rant. I just think that it's patently unfair for the govt' to play these games. I believe that there should be a consistent age of majority at which point we all should be treated like adults with all of the rights and responsibilities thereof. The right to vote, drink, wed, contract, enlist in the armed forces etc. If we achieve that age and act irresponsibly, it is then our responsibility to pay the price. Sorry, I didn't mean to get so far OT.

[Tedly Nightshade]

Here in OR there are lotsa teenagers with skyhigh blood alcohol levels killing and getting killed all the time. Usually in big old new pickups and SUV's. A personal favorite of mine, don't think it was a fatality- kid lands his (or his dad's) pickup truck in someone's living room in Gresham OR (suburb of Portland, formerly farmland). There's about a fifteen foot front lawn, without a mark on it. Perfect lawn, pickup truck in the living room through the front window. So give the kid a couple years and a handful of dexedrine and make him a fighter pilot. He's got the spirit alright. What's being glossed over is the visceral reality of depleted uranium dust in the lungs of our soldiers, their soldiers, and their civilians, the ongoing legacy of Agent Orange, causing birth defects in the grandchildren of the Vietnamese exposed to it, and surely here in the states as well, the cluster bomblets unexploded sitting around inside and outside people's homes, waiting for a curious or accidental touch, the shards of shrapnel being cut out of screaming children without anesthesia, by doctors who, unlike our military, are no longer being paid their salaries and don't know where the next nickel is coming from, but wade through the gore and the screams day in and out all the same. Ain't it great to be liberated! And no, I wouldn't wish it on anybody, female or male and of any age. Nice triumphant shot of the fighter pilot cockpit there, Da Coiv, must be empowering to be able to do some real damage from a suitably long distance. Nothing like a cluster bombing to make a 19 year old feel like big stuff indeed.

[GZsound]

Boy, it must be depressing to only find the bad in everything. The cluster bomblets are far outnumbered by the millions of mines the Iraqi military placed everywhere. So what is the lesser of two evils? Leave the brutality in place with the millions of mines placed all over the country, or remove the regime and leave some unexploded ordinance behind? Life is full of choices and sometimes they are hard. Looking at life through brown muddy colored glasses can only be depressing. There are now teams of coalition troops spending all their time trying to find the unexploded ordinance and removing the mines. What exactly is the price of freeing 25 million people? Doing nothing costs over a quarter of a million Iraqi citizens a year their lives. Having a small child find an unexploded bomblet (it happened just today and four soldiers were injured as was the girl that handed them the ordinance) is terrible. Having her raped, her parents tortured, her aunts and uncles killed and burried in a mass grave must surely be equally as bad to you..right?

[Henchman]

[quote]Originally posted by Ted Nightshade: [b] What's being glossed over is the visceral reality of depleted uranium dust in the lungs of our soldiers, their soldiers, and their civilians, the ongoing legacy of Agent Orange, causing birth defects in the grandchildren of the Vietnamese exposed to it, and surely here in the states as well, the cluster bomblets unexploded sitting around inside and outside people's homes, waiting for a curious or accidental touch, the shards of shrapnel being cut out of screaming children without anesthesia, by doctors who, unlike our military, are no longer being paid their salaries and don't know where the next nickel is coming from, but wade through the gore and the screams day in and out all the same. Ain't it great to be liberated! [/b][/quote]I worked on a documentary called "Freedom Village". It's about those involved with helping those vietnamese still suffering from the vietnam agent orange disasters. Of all the countries involved in that war, the US contribution is by far the lowest. They refuse to claim any real responsability for poisoning the water and land with agent orange.

[Mats Olsson.]

Too bad USA also refused to sign the treaty against the use of personal mines... and just as bad is exporting them to other countries (not that the weapon exporters in my own country are very likeable either :( - it makes me just as pissed). And, hypothetically, would the warlords dare to ever use depleted uranium amunition inside the USA? /Mats

[Tedly Nightshade]

GZ, I have no apologies for the Iraqi military nightmare either. I only wish we had no responisibility as a country for selling them so many weapons or supplying them with biological warfare agents. Between the US and the Soviet Union we sure have distributed a lot of killing and maiming devices to these areas of the world, who nobody could have imagined were going to be remotely responsible about using or not using them. God those land mines are a horrible business- but a profitable one, for some. Same goes for the rest of this insane enterprise. I wish I could fantasize that it was somehow for the good of the Iraqi in the street. I see a lot of beauty all around me, all the time. Trees yet uncut, animals yet unpoisoned (at least not yet poisoned to death), flowers blooming- it's springtime here, it's hard to miss. I must say I see a rainbow of shimmering possibilities for beauty and healing, but I can't say I can imagine that these things are held to be important as part of our ruinous foreign or domestic policy. I'll never understand the mentality that looks at a 400 year old tree growing in health as part of a thriving forest community, and ponders the logistics of bringing in helicopters and heavy equipment to cut it down and haul it off to be milled. These helicopters cost a fuckload to run even for an hour- no wonder almost all the loggers in my area are living in poverty, even as all the trees continue to be cut like there's no tomorrow. I see beauty almost everywhere, and I see beauty slated for destruction, I see it trucked around on the backs of the big trucks by people far more interested in profit than in health in beauty- or in the case of the truck drivers themselves, hoping to make a few bucks to get through this year, and doubtless wondering where all the trees are going to come from to help make it through the rest of their lives, let alone their children's lives. What beauty there is in Iraq is not being protected by our troops- the hospitals that were embargoed have none of the materials to do a decent humane job, even before the looting, but the Ministry of Oil is being landmined by the US forces as we speak so the employees or any body else (anybody without a map) will be maimed or killed if they venture inside. We have our priorities in Iraq, and the welfare of the populace is only given lip service. How much more obscene that lip service be given- if we're going to kill and starve the civilians, disrupt their water supplies and poison everyone and everything with depleted uranium, we could at least be straightforward about it. What a vicious insult to pose as liberators and distributors of humanitarian aid. Those years of sanctions sure didn't hurt Saddam any, but they ravaged the populace to the tune of 500,000 children dying of a basic lack of human needs being met- Madeline Albright is on the record as saying "it was worth it." I see beauty alright, I see kindness and healing and true charity- I can distinguish between that and pillage and photo ops. Anyone who is looking at the Iraq situation and seeing the US delivering tender mercies to the populace is looking through glasses far muddier than mine.

[Mats Olsson.]

And let's not forget about those horrible [url=http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/Music/04/21/mccartney.cluster.ap/index.html]Cluster Bombs[/url] ! What a sick device to use against people! /Mats

[Hanshananigan]

[quote]Originally posted by Jeff the Wandering Weasel: [b] [quote]Originally posted by Henchman: [b]You jkust will not accept the fact that for alot of people, if they want to get a real education, they have to do it by joining the army.[/b][/quote]God, what a load of crap. The military offers one way to get enough money to go to college. I put myself through college by working at retail stores full time while going to school full time. I had to settle for a state university instead of a private school, since that's all I could afford. But I mamanged to get a bachelor's degree with no financial support from my parents or my government. This idea that you're spouting...that being in the military is the only possible way these people would get higher education...is simply not true. Don't forget about scholarships and grants, either. A 19 year old person is an adult. Women have all the reasoning power that men have. I see NOTHING wrong with Jessica Lynch being in a combat situation if she chose to be there. - Jeff[/b][/quote]DITTO! although I agree our healthcare is not so good, and education needs help in a lot of ways. but then again, Canada would have to spend a lot more on their military, and a lot more on medical research, if they weren't benefiting from the US military and big spendings on r/d. and that might actually cut into Canada's education and healthcare funding...

[GZsound]

[b]Originally posted by Ted Nightshade: GZ, I have no apologies for the Iraqi military nightmare either. I only wish we had no responisibility as a country for selling them so many weapons or supplying them with biological warfare agents. [/b] Actually, we did not give them weapons grade biotoxins. We gave them virus and antidote materials for disease control. They turned the material into weapons grade biotoxin. [b]God those land mines are a horrible business- but a profitable one, for some. Same goes for the rest of this insane enterprise. I wish I could fantasize that it was somehow for the good of the Iraqi in the street.[/b] The majority of the land mines are Russian. And I cannot understand why it requires fantasizing to see the results on the people in the street. There is now a multi million member Shiite pilgrimage underway that was not allowed under Saddam. They now have the freedom to march, to beat themselves bloody and to trek to their religious shrines..for the first time in decades. [b]I see a lot of beauty all around me, all the time. Trees yet uncut, animals yet unpoisoned (at least not yet poisoned to death), flowers blooming- it's springtime here, it's hard to miss. I must say I see a rainbow of shimmering possibilities for beauty and healing, but I can't say I can imagine that these things are held to be important as part of our ruinous foreign or domestic policy. I'll never understand the mentality that looks at a 400 year old tree growing in health as part of a thriving forest community, and ponders the logistics of bringing in helicopters and heavy equipment to cut it down and haul it off to be milled. [/b] Ted, I agree there needs to be some balance. However, anybody living in a wooden frame house, sitting on a wooden chair, etc. needs to understand they are part of the problem. I see guys like one of the Kennedys (can't remember his first name) going all over the country blaming Mr. Bush for the environmental problems, the dependence on foreign oil, etc. Of course he's flying in a private jet..using thousands of gallons of fuel a minute.. [b]I see beauty almost everywhere, and I see beauty slated for destruction, I see it trucked around on the backs of the big trucks by people far more interested in profit than in health in beauty- or in the case of the truck drivers themselves, hoping to make a few bucks to get through this year, and doubtless wondering where all the trees are going to come from to help make it through the rest of their lives, let alone their children's lives.[/b] So what you are saying is you don't see the statistics that we have planted more trees in Oregon than have been harvested over the last thirty years? Your analogy is like a farmer harvesting his crops with no concern for where the crops will come from next year..it just ain't so anymore. The lumber companies that still exist have learned that to survive, they must operate within sustainable yields. Leaving the forests alone with no management simply leads to the massive fires we had last summer. Do you not see a conflagration waiting to happen when you gaze out over thousands of acres of trees? The fires killed more old growth than any logging activity in decades.. [b]What beauty there is in Iraq is not being protected by our troops- the hospitals that were embargoed have none of the materials to do a decent humane job, even before the looting, but the Ministry of Oil is being landmined by the US forces as we speak so the employees or any body else (anybody without a map) will be maimed or killed if they venture inside. We have our priorities in Iraq, and the welfare of the populace is only given lip service. How much more obscene that lip service be given- if we're going to kill and starve the civilians, disrupt their water supplies and poison everyone and everything with depleted uranium, we could at least be straightforward about it. What a vicious insult to pose as liberators and distributors of humanitarian aid. Those years of sanctions sure didn't hurt Saddam any, but they ravaged the populace to the tune of 500,000 children dying of a basic lack of human needs being met- Madeline Albright is on the record as saying "it was worth it."[/b] The UN imposed the sanctions. There is now information being reported on how the "food for oil" money was being spent by the regime. The US is now trying to get the UN to drop the sanctions. To blame anybody except Saddam for the deaths caused by any sanctions, any aid, etc. is ignoring the truth. And I would love to see where US policy is to "starve adn kill civilians". Have you seen any numbers regarding the tonnage of food, water and medical aid we are providing to the area? It appears not. [b]I see beauty alright, I see kindness and healing and true charity- I can distinguish between that and pillage and photo ops. Anyone who is looking at the Iraq situation and seeing the US delivering tender mercies to the populace is looking through glasses far muddier than mine.[/b] I think not. There are simply no facts whatsoever to support your premise. There are no facts to support the premise that the US is intent on killing civilians and children. There are no facts to support the premise the US shut off the power and the water supplies. In fact, we are now trying to get the power back on. The United States provides more aid to foreign countries by a factor of more than ten than any other country in the world. That is a readily available fact. The United States did very little collateral damage in Iraq. Even Iraqi TV and Al Jazeera TV could not find any evidence of wide spread collateral damage. The United States has medical teams (our very own NW medical team is over there now), thousands of tons of medical supplies, water, food, etc. either in country or on route. Again, I can only wonder why you are so depressed that you see nothing but the negative no matter where you look. I see humanity..good, bad, confused, making good decisions and bad decisions, consuming with no idea of the future consequences, driving their SUV's, killing millions of babies on demand, letting criminals walk free, giving free education to illegal aliens, giving my tax dollars to illegals for medical treatment, taxing me at the third highest level in the United States, creating another failing social program after the last failing social program, etc. There are a lot of things to be depressed about, but being depressed about something that has no factual basis is simply a waste of time. Hatred of an administration and blaming our country for all the world ills is counterproductive. Try to work up a little of that anger for our new governor. He has stated publically he wants you to fail..

[the stranger]

[quote]Originally posted by aeon: [b]Congrats, GZsound...you successfully used “America,” “white man,” “blame.” “women,” “stupid,” “liberal,” “abortion,” “free will,” “rhetoric” and “bash” in a post. :rolleyes: [/b][/quote]:thu:

[the stranger]

[quote]Originally posted by GZsound: [b] Education is provided to all our citizens for free by law in this country. There are many, many options for getting continuing education, community college education, on line education, or even free public library education. There are government grants, community education programs, social programs, etc.[/b][/quote]Have you ever pursued any of these?

[Dan South]

Hey Ted, Great article! Thanks for posting it!! :thu: Too bad we don't have a free press in this country. :(

[Tedly Nightshade]

Good to have a dialogue with you GZ. I'm not looking at Iraq, but I'm looking at the forest and it's dying. A forest is more than trees, it's a web of interlocked species. I been to the coast and seen all them clearcuts. A few species can live there, but it will never be what it was. Same with the high and dry areas, erosion has set in and the forest will never be back. It's nice to plant trees, but so very very few of them will make it under the best conditions. I can't confuse a dried out sapling in one of those yellow mesh cylinders for an old growth tree. Fire is part of the cycle, and you bet I look at a conflagration waiting to happen come the long hot summer. The thick underbrush around my house, the legacy of repeated loggings, cost me many many thousands to even put a dent in- there's no profit in the real fuel reduction work, the scrubby little shit. The Kalmiopsis burned last year, 300,000 acres or more, but there are thriving plant and animal communities and healthy old growth all through it. It did not all burn as represented in the papers- there are huge islands of intact forest all over. I have a bunch of 4x12's under my house, they didn't come from anywhere sustainable. Guilty as charged. As for Kennedys in their jet planes- don't get me started... that disgusts me too.

[Jotown]

I have no problem with woman in the military, or in combat situations, as long as they can fulfill the same physical requirements as the men. I would hate see a soldier get his legs blown off and have to die in the sand because the female soldier who was with him did not have the physical strength to drag him to safety. Dumbing down the physical requirements for women in the military, fire of police force is very irresponsible in my opinion. If you can't meet the same physical requirements as the men you should be relegated to a desk job, but certainly not in combat, or in a burning building.

[Super 8]

[quote]Originally posted by whitefang: [b][QUOTE]"What if she's in a combat situation, and an enemy soldier pops up that resembles her son? She'd hesitate long enough to endanger her life, and the lives of her squad!" [/b][/quote]THAT IS FUNNY! Okay... What if she resembles his mother??? Hmmm?

[alcohol]

GZwrote: "The United States provides more aid to foreign countries by a factor of more than ten than any other country in the world. That is a readily available fact. " Not even close to true. Japan had contributed more than US for a good while till this 2001 contributin 9/10s as much as the US. In terms of GDP the US is the lowest contributer of any industrialized nation. GZ's claim about US contributions has no veracity at all. http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp

[alcohol]

GZ wrote: "The federal government just awarded a huge contract to Bechtel Corporation for infrastructure rebuilding in Iraq. No bids, no competition...doesn't that piss you off? And to make it worse, Bechtel gives huge amounts of money to political parties. If fact, they give 60% of all their political contributions to the democrats. hmmmm..." Not true: " Bechtel Group made almost $1.3 million in political contributions from 1999-2002 election cycle, with 59 percent going to Republicans and 41 percent to Democrats, said the Center for Responsive Politics, a nonprofit research group based in Washington." http://www.washtimes.com/business/20030418-69230768.htm

[Tedly Nightshade]

"I would hate see a soldier get his legs blown off and have to die in the sand because the female soldier who was with him did not have the physical strength to drag him to safety. Dumbing down the physical requirements for women in the military, fire of police force is very irresponsible in my opinion. If you can't meet the same physical requirements as the men you should be relegated to a desk job, but certainly not in combat, or in a burning building." I agree with this. One thing that strikes my attention about the Pvt. Lynch thing- we don't have women soliders in the frontline combat units, from what I've heard, but clearly things are nowhere near that clear cut. You can be in a supply unit like Lynch was and still end up in combat.

[Tedly Nightshade]

as for Bechtel, they're covering their bets. No matter who wins (and in our pitiful two party system, it's not going to be a surprise- it's gonna be one or the other), they have major influence.