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Fans wise, without a doubt the singer is everything. The average listener doesn"t actually notice or care to hear much beyond the vocal, I"ve noticed. Like you suggest, vocal timbre is like our taste for foods - right? Preferences for sweet or bitter, savory, whatever. And then there"s the appeal - seems people are forgiving if he/she has the look, the strut, etc. I didn"t get Plant"s wail either as a kid. I was more drawn to the bass, drums and guitar riffs in this group. I eventually appreciated what he was going for. Using all parts of his voice gave him a much bigger range to experiment with, it was unique if not always pleasant, and he certainly had the hair and strut. I"m actually most impressed he could do this still in 2007. Just to share - if the songs and grooves weren"t so good at times, I would avoid Smashing Pumpkins for vocal timbre. And a track that always elicits a station change is Photograph from Nickelback. The arrangement is fine if not boring, but the sound of his voice in the key it"s played in makes me feel like he"s a dad that came in for story day, cracked open the book and started yelling at the kids. Thankfully I like a lot of musical styles and there"s still a shot at finding something on FM with auto search. Peace Elmer - I agree some fans of bands are only about the singers appearance, clothes, "sex appeal" etc, and perhaps lastly the voice, especially these days. I was at school for most of Zeps original releases, and I think most of my mates who liked them were interested in the guitar performance of Page, and spent hours trying to play like him. It was interesting when a band like Queen came along and you saw a two way split of those who loved the music and playing and the girls who, rather ironically as it turned out, fancied Freddie! It was quite a moment when George Michael "replaced him" with an equally amazing, IMO, vocal ability. Ironic also about the girls who were devastated when he "came out". Rather sad neither are with us anymore - would have been interesting to see how both vocals would have changed, with maturity. Btw - Freddie was a pretty neat pianist too, just IMO, of course. Also - They just played "Get by with a little help from my friends" with Joe Cocker, on my local radio station, now that's a very soulful voiced dude, again just IMO, of course. Cheers

Not actually a "pink" band though - lol! Sorry it was intended as a joke thread, which I think a lot of people may realise, was related to some "other" interaction here. I won't bother to link to it. I apologise if you thought it real - but you did seem incredulous from your reply! Sorry. Cheers

"..and Plant's wailing.." Looking at it now (being serious for a moment), I think that might have been what I wasn't keen on. The musicianship was great and, as you say, "in the pocket". I think people can be affected by a vocal sound they aren't keen on which spoils something for them. Sometimes why I guess, a cover version of a song may do better with a different vocalist. Cheers.

Just to repeat I have no particular knowledge on the subject, but, I think everyone does learn in different ways. I can certainly identify with the "moving to the next part" and the best co-ordination of both hands problem too! Mainly why I tend to be synth-centric with the right hand I guess! I know friends who had "classical" piano lessons sometimes came across terrible teachers who almost bullied them by hitting their fingers with a pencil if they got it wrong and so on. I think that would have put me off for life! Regarding the moving to the next part - I sometimes have found that just saying "oh well I'll try the next bit" and if that worked - let me go back and crack the previous bit. Sometimes. The co-ordination thing I think, can vary from person to person, on hand size, shape and possibly if you are left or right handed. My dad was one of an identical twin and he was able to do all sorts of everyday tasks with both hands, spoons, knife and fork etc. He hadn't had much practical experience with things like diy, painting the house and that kind of thing, as a kid during WW2 in the UK as people weren't able to get materials etc - it was the same with my mum. Both had to learn stuff like that as young adults. He found learning those skills quite difficult but certainly mastered some, like painting and decorating really well, and could wield a paintbrush with either hand. The strange thing was his twin brother never did master them very well despite trying hard. My dad was also quite an accomplished organist, considering some of the lack of opportunities for kids at that time. I am an accomplished user of just about any tool, hammers, screwdrivers, saws, drills etc, etc, etc and can use many of them in either hand equally well. My older brother isn't so hot at diy etc but plays guitar pretty well and he thinks in a very different way. I would say another thing I find good when something isn't going so well learning piece, is that I deliberately try to alter it in a silly comical way which has me relax a bit, then I can usually make a bit better hash of it. Again - sometimes. You may find none of the above will help in any way! I expect many teachers will be throwing their hands up in horror, but if it works for you then, it works for you! Good luck and best wishes. Gotta dash and grab some shopping now! LOL! Cheers.

A bit like someone else we dare not mention for fear of the rules? I agree!

There's a few things on this forum I wouldn't now recommend...but I digress..... Paul, I know how you feel, but, as you say, we are often our own worst critics particularly when it comes to our playing or music. I also think that some people genuinely do hear their own stuff differently - more critically, than they might other peoples. I think, not that I'm any kind of authority on these things, that when you practice something a number of times and you don't think it's working, then go and have a walk, or a coffee and occupy your thoughts with something else for a bit. When you come back, you start with a bit less frustration with yourself, often. But at the end of the day, the main thing is that, as others say, don't give up! All the best. Cheers

I've just noticed that when you have two "wavys" in post (see above) they are mostly in sync, but sometimes there's a bit of latency. Let's hope MIDI 2 is an improvement. Edit - BTW I know I need to get a life! :roll: :roll:

Must admit I wasn't a huge Zep fan back in the day, although plenty of my mates were. For me it was the Osmonds - pure magic! I was a bit worried in that first video that Page was gonna kiss someone inappropriately, the way he was pursing his lips, but think it was just attention seeking so that around 3:47 he could reveal his new dentures. Perhaps the lip pursing was to keep them in? You'd think he had enough dosh to get some that fitted though, so probably not that. It does the job here, right? There"s a bunch of useful sounds in the X-50. It is built really cheaply though. I mean, you can grab both those handles, turn opposite directions and crack it open without mich effort. I wonder if he liked what he was getting from it or if it"s triggering the Oasys? Are you sure it's a Korg X50? I did wonder if it was a ? - It's ok, I don't think they were around when that vid. was made..... I agree some of the sounds in the X50 are a bit "poop". BTW - I didn't quite understand the "crack it open without mich" comment - who's "mitch" and why are cracking Korgs with him? Prefer a beer m'self! I think you really should have said IMHO, and if you don't mind me saying, they were "built quite inexpensively..." seems fairer than "..really cheaply.." - I mean people might misunderstand you, and be upset if they'd spent their hard earned dosh on one, 'specially as everyone's so Personal Computer these days - if you know what I mean.... I was a bit worried about the thread title too - I mean "Throw back" where did that come from? Just sayin'! Peace and Lurve man, Cheers

Hi It's not Deldor - well here at least...but Thanks for the suggestion but I found that thread a bit um if I must say "poop" Is that a naughty word? Anyway it's for my mate and he wasn't fixed on foldable as I told him x spurts had said they were crap! Cheers

Remember how you were going to sign off so as not to say anything else that needlessly trolled or disrespected some of the forum's most valuable and long-standing members? Good times. I must have forgotten or it's the nice Aussie red wine or sumfink! His pupils look quite attentive though, so he must be good... Edit - I think "trolled" is a bit um strong.... Edit - Sorry - Peace Elmer.

Is that Elmer and some of his piano pupils?

Great thanks - I did just edit to add extra info about intended use - same advice applies?

My mate asked me, does anyone make these with MIDI I/O, Mod/Pitch wheels, CV - Gate (in and out) with hold and volume pedals and if at all possible, preferably a folding one? The action would be nice if it could be switched to a properly weighted piano if required. Edit - intended use is Sunday church gig with a praise band and (when CV lockdown ends) Thrash Rock/Punk gigs in a pub. My mates' budget? - about $99 inc carriage. Oh and a sturdy road case with wheels too, if folding is not possible. Thanks. Link to product video > Edit - many may find this post slightly unbelievable...............

But does it fold up?

- Guy who teaches keyboard + Keyboard = Guy who can't get gigs or girls and can't afford to feed the cats.

Nah -- as I am an ignorant American hillbilly, a red crayon would have made the Down-under English idioms easier to see, but still confusing. The translation into BCC was just what I needed. Are you suggesting my cousins "down under" are ignorant hillbillies who regularly write in red crayon? I'm shocked you would say such a thing!

If the 49 key wheels were the same layout/position as the 61 it would be the same width, but they aren't so it is a bit narrower.

Hi, If real estate is an issue, the Arturia Keylab MkII, 49 key, as previously mentioned, certainly fits the bill. I own a couple of bits of Arturia kit, and have always liked the build quality and although I don't own a Keylab MkII, a friend does, which I quite liked when I had a (very brief) play of it. They certainly have good support with software/updates etc, in my opinion, for what that's worth. As has been mentioned the pads are on the left, but, it may depend on the intended use and maybe what your son's "handedness" is, as to whether that's a good or bad thing I guess! It may also depend on whether the controller will be mainly studio/production, or live use. As I am not really a pianist, but "synth-centric" I can't really comment on the action, as far as use by an accomplished pianist is concerned, but there are plenty here who are, and surely will. Just my 3.8 GB pence worth, for what it's worth. Cheers.

This is supposed to be a good one: Link > Here Caveat - I haven't actually read it myself......

Not normally. No. Edit - BTW Shouldn't I have told the vocalist about the aftershave? Damn - sorry mate! Cheers

I think I need Google translate for this. I have no idea what you just said. Perhaps he should have used a red crayon for you.....? LOL! Nah. Tom is sharp as. He has a good sense of fun and we Aussies don"t mind our US chinas taking the P 1 double five out of us, as long as they don"t mind the odd return of service. I was actually taking the P regarding post 13 from him in the thread I (slightly) lost the plot on over the 88 carry-ons , where he used red in his, I think slightly unwarranted, "ticking off" for the rude, as he saw it, comments to ElmerJ. I tried (probably too hard) to make what I thought was a tongue in cheek response, which may not have translated into 'merrycan. Never mind, I was obviously a very naughty boy. Edit - "I must stop posting, I must stop, posting, I must stop posting...................."

Yeah - sorry I decided I would give up here from now on - the place seems slightly surreal. Cheers anyway and all the best!

I think I need Google translate for this. I have no idea what you just said. Perhaps he should have used a red crayon for you.....? LOL!

I can translate into British Civil Service if that helps?.....". Cheers, Mike "British Civil Service" - LOL! No thanks - had a gutfull of them.

He"s spat the chewy mate you might struggle. No, no chewy mate, sick of getting the bloody stuff on my shoes from every pavement ("sidewalk" for some). Never touch the stuff.