GRollins

Oh, and your earlier suggestion of trying D was something I'd already gravitated towards, at least as far as a key. Unfortunately, the riffs I came up with were junk so I backed away. D may very well be the ticket, it's just that I haven't managed to be clever enough to see the possibilities yet. Grey

Speaking as an author, I am profoundly concerned about the way AI is encroaching on all the arts (some magazines have quit accepting over the transom submissions due to an overwhelming onslaught of AI-generated manuscripts). In an alternate universe, I'm probably already done with the tune, thanks to AI. In this universe...I'd prefer not to. It just feels wrong, if you know what I mean. Where does it stop? Next time, I might just succumb to temptation and tell the AI to do the whole song, from start to finish...then take credit for the whole thing. What's to stop me? Besides, if there really is some sort of modal progression concept out there, then I stand to learn something. If I turn it over to an AI, I'll just take the music it hands me without having any deeper understanding of music. I'm weak on theory and know it, but I'm willing to learn. On the other hand, if there's no such theory (and no one has popped up and said, "Go look up xxxx and that'll get you going), then I'll have learned something else--it may not be what I'd hoped for, but I will have learned. Grey

Okay, lemme try for Ver. 3.0 of the situation I'm in: --I'm in single parent mode and I'm trying desperately to hammer the house back together, but it's falling apart faster than I can hammer (see above--today was tile work in the upstairs bath, rebuilding after water damage). No, I'm not divorcing...my wife has moved up the road to Asheville (new job) and is starting to look for houses. I've got to get this house ready to put on the market, but the list of problems is daunting--rebuild the upstairs bath, rebuild the kitchen, redo all three decks, etc. The house is 40 years old and wasn't built well to begin with. The boys want to finish high school here (graduate 2025), which means I've got time--but not enough time. There's simply too much to be done and stuff is falling apart even as I'm fixing other things. --Given the above, I don't have a lot of time. I'm already down to six hours of sleep per night on average and that's falling. I was bad and literally left town, driving hundreds of miles, to get peace and quiet so I could finish a story I started writing four damned years ago. Like I say, I shouldn't have done it, but real world events are catching up with the things I wanted to do in the story so my wife took some time off and came home to watch over the boys while I went away for a week. The trip was a trip, so to speak, but I'm not going to start in on the things that happened--maybe later. Having done that last October, I simply cannot justify taking more time off. Things are breaking down on a daily basis and I have work to do. --The A major to G Lydian thing isn't some theoretical exercise that I want to do to torture myself. It already exists. --The tune as it stands modulates reasonably gracefully from A to G. It also comes back to A from G. No problem there. --People saying things along the lines of, "Just write the tune. Don't worry about theory," are missing the time factor. I don't have the luxury of time. Sorry 'bout that. I'm trapped. Glad you've got time. I don't. If I work on this, it has to come out of my sleep budget and that account is already badly overdrawn. I hallucinate when I'm in sleep deprivation mode and things get wonky if I pull too many nights in a row with 3-4 hours of sleep. I have to try to work smart, not hard. --What I really need is someone that I can work with on this. (Don't say anything stupid like, "Where will you find the time?" I have no idea.) As I have detailed elsewhere, there are zero, and I mean zero people in this area who are open to even talking about original material. None. When I say none, I mean it. If you mention original material, people start running you down (all without hearing a single note, mind you--the very concept frightens them that badly). Pointing out that Hootie and the Blowfish came from this town gets comments that indicate that they were, somehow, a psychotic, deranged exception and it will never happen again. Well, yeah, you got that right, buddy...with that attitude, you're ensuring that nothing will happen. Ever. --I came across a guitarist who claimed to be interested in original material. I was over the moon. You can ask my wife. Went to jam. I'll cut to the punch line: He wanted to rearrange ordinary rock songs with some sort of intro that people wouldn't immediately recognize, then when it turned out to be Free Bird, people would light up and say, "Hey, I know this song!" He was absolutely mystified as to why I wasn't thrilled. You will not be surprised to hear that he was filled with screaming purple terror when I brought out some of my ideas. And that was my one and only chance in almost 45 years that I've lived in this area. Every drummer I've met is strictly 4/4; they regard 3/4 with grave suspicion. --Okay, so lacking a real-live human to bounce ideas off of, I was thinking that maybe there might be some sort of hint in theory that might give me some ideas. --Did I mention that this sucker is in 11/8 time? No, I didn't do that on purpose, it's just the way the idea came to me, okay? Anyway, that also guarantees with mathematical certainty that no one will talk to me about this. I am on my own. Totally. --I've tried (by staying up late) some things, but they all sound ordinary. Mundane. Boring. I do not want this particular thing to end up as a disposable barroom dance tune, you know? No, it's not danceable anyway, but you know (okay, at least some of you know) what I mean. Is it prog? (Shhh! What the hell is wrong with you, boy? Don't say that word, it scares people!) Uh...I guess. Given that it does unconventional melodic things and is in 11/8, the question probably would have to be answered in the affirmative. If you guessed that prog is verboten around here, you're spot on. I've never met a single person here who even listens to prog, much less plays it. Not a single one. Nada. Guys (and gals?), if this doesn't make the thrust of my question clear, I'm going to give up. I didn't expect it to be this hard to get my point across and I'm going to need to work on the house. It was a long shot, anyway. Grey

All right, since my question was apparently unclear, I'll try to rephrase it. Music theory suggests II-V-I, right? Or at least that's one option. Are there analogous "suggestions" for sequencing from one mode to another? Grey

I've got a tune that I've been trying to work on between other things (e.g. today I'll be laying tile in the upstairs bathroom...what fun!). It starts in A major, then pivots to G Lydian. My question is this: In the sense that theory books hand down decrees from on high that Thou Shalt Write II-V-I, etc., can someone point me to equivalent guidelines for progressions that go from major (Ionian) to Lydian to...whatever? Grey

I'm a bass player who dabbles in keys. Bass players are thick upon the ground, but keyboard players are virtually nonexistent and what few there are, are church players...only. I joined Keyboard Corner in hopes of discovering an otherwise unattached Rick Wakeman in my area...only to discover that my lifelong impression that keyboard players are rare was correct. There ain't hardly none to be had, at least not within a couple hundred mile radius of my location. Grey

It seems to me that a lot of posts boil down to: 1) Weight (What?...as though full keyboards don't have weight also?) 2) "You can get everything you want by doing this other thing instead..." 3) "If you want other sounds, something is wrong with you. Be happy with what you have." I read eric's posts differently from the way some others seem to be reading them. Original post: "What kinds of gear do you have and how do you effectively control it?" I've got heaps of rack mount stuff and friggin' love it. Wallow in it. Enjoy every damned minute I get to spend with my gear (which isn't much right now, but that's another matter entirely). As far as what's in the racks, a lot of it's Eurorack, which I sense might be a different direction than desired, so let's set that aside. I've got a Yamaha Motif Rack XS (only 1U, so that's economical space-wise, but it's deep as hell) , which you've already mentioned. I've got two of the Behringer Model D synths (one in a rack adapter [3U, but shallow and light as a feather], one still standalone, but I intend to mount it at some point) if you were to want some traditional synth capability. As for control...well, there's control and then there's control... I use an Edirol UM-880 (1U, medium depth and weight) to hot switch MIDI signals according to my whims. I like it because I don't have to program the bloody thing; I can just poke it and do anything I want, including running multiple units in parallel off the same MIDI input. Wonderful when I'm doing my Deep Oscillator(tm) thing. I can run a touch of deep, deep sine or triangle to add ooomph to, say, piano or sax or Alien Space Farts or whatever. If I want to try something else, I can change it on the fly, effortlessly. Love that thing. I only have one complaint, but it's minor so I'll leave it out for now. --or-- If by control, you meant keyboards, I've got the keyboard that I built using the Fatar keybed from a defunct Kurtzweil, a Yamaha MOXF8, a Korg Kronos, two Moog Voyagers (one kbd, one rack) and a Moog Little Phatty (ancient--first generation, I think). All the keyboards (excepting a Hammond A100--no MIDI) are plugged into the Edirol and anything can run anything in any combination. It's heaven. My old Yamaha MM8 has come up from the studio--I used to use it as a keyboard, then for MIDI, then it got replaced by the MOXF8. Sometimes I think I'll take it back downstairs. If you're wanting something closer to the Motif Rack, all I can say is that I was getting myself into a lather, wanting to get a Roland Integra 7, but after listening to a number of demos on YouTube, I began to have second thoughts. None of the sounds I was hearing were exciting me. This was surprising, as I'd already gone so far as to bid (and lose) on a couple of units on eBay, so I had already gotten myself talked into owning one--then did an about face and talked myself right back out of it. Yes, boxes like that have hundreds of voices and maybe I just wasn't hearing the ones I'd want to mess with. I don't know where to lay hands on one to experiment with. For now, the Integra thing is on the back burner. I'd like to revisit the idea, but simply don't have time. I started a thread a couple of years ago, asking what kind of rack units people liked. Got a number of responses. I made a list of the units people mentioned so as to be able to seek out demos and listen to what they could do. Then my life sorta fell apart and that project (related to, but separate from the Integra thing) got shelved. I think I still have the list of recommended units somewhere. Or maybe I'm the one misreading the original question and all the responses above are more what you want. Lemme get some sleep...I'm exhausted. Maybe tomorrow I'll have a different perspective on the whole matter. Grey

(With tongue firmly in cheek...) I would like to like to note that it took four guys to operate one Rick Wakeman's-worth of keyboards. Just sayin'... Grey

"Not all people in the South are like you." Once again, I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. That's very much my point. I'm not like the people around me, so on that we are in agreement. Thank you for saying it so succinctly. <fist bump> On the other hand, assuming that you're using the word "project" in the psychological sense of someone who assumes without foundation that another is feeling the same emotion that they are (one of my degrees is in psychology; that's the way your post reads to me), your statement about stereotypes makes no sense. I'm just not clear as to what you're saying. Folks, it seems to me that things are beginning to get bumpy. To the extent that I've contributed to any hurt feelings, I apologize. At this point, jazzpiano88's posts are getting sufficiently nonlinear that I'm afraid that it won't be possible to have a productive conversation on any level. I simply can't understand what points s/he might be trying to make and there's danger that things are going to go downhill. That's not my intention, so I'm going to withdraw from this thread. You guys have fun. Grey PS: No, Ma, I don't want squash, either. That stuff's nasty. You eat it. PPS: I read somewhere that so-called supertasters tend to dislike vegetables because they're ultrasensitive to the alkaloids that occur naturally in them. Does this mean that I'm a supertaster? I have anecdotal evidence that it's so, but don't know this for a fact. Even if it were to turn out to be true, it would make no difference to my mother. She'd still be ladling out enormous dollops of yukky, slimy, steaming veggies onto my plate in an effort to make me like them. PPPS: Love George Carlin. Miss him (and Robin Williams) terribly. That's what's wrong with the world today. Those two guys left the planet and suddenly no one has a sense of humor anymore. Bummer. Bummer.

Dude, you're going to have to help me out here. I went back and reread what I wrote: 'Trust me, having lived all my life in the Carolinas, it ain't for lack of exposure to country (or gospel, another genre I can do without). The music exists. There are scads of people who like it. I'm not one of them. Trust me, if that changes I'll let you know, but don't hold your breath.' That's the only mention I made of gospel, and all I said was that I can do without it. So...how did I 'clarify?' I'm not sure what you're saying. Please note that any mention of gospel, by definition, is going to risk the prohibition on posting about religion here. All I said was I'm not a fan, and stopped. I'm trying to skirt the religion thing. As far as sweeping stereotypes of people who listen to country--they certainly hold true for the Carolinas. Maybe things are different in other parts of the country, though on visits to other areas I've not seen significant deviations. (Nor has anyone else I've spoken with.) Regarding country music sounding the same; I went hunting for the original video that I saw...typed in "country music s" and YouTube autofilled "country music sounds the same." Hmmm. Methinks they've faced that prompt before, eh? Okay, so I'll let you work your way through the other candidate videos, but I'll offer this one for your viewing/listening pleasure (Hilarious or sad? You decide...): One thing's for sure, you're not going to have an easy time mashing Led Zeppelin and Yes or Jethro Tull and Black Sabbath together. Ditto Miles and John Coltrane. Now, I am on record as saying that a lot of the "hair bands" of the '80s sound the same and I stand by that. I can't tell Poison from Motley Crue from Quiet Riot from Skid Row from Warrant from...egad, I was building a guitar in my shop with the radio going (the local rock station leans heavily towards the '80s) and started a list. By the end of the day I had ten or twelve bands that sounded identical. Two guitars (fuzz pedals, Marshall stacks). Bass (slightly overdriven, Ampeg or Marshall). Drums. Solo vocals on verses. Harmonies on the chorus. Lyrics tend strongly towards "I'm a badass and I'll do what I want to do" attitude. Def Leppard can be told apart from the rest because of the way they're mixed--the drums are a little more forward. Otherwise, they're part of the pack. I'd be okay with the formula if it was just two or three bands, but...a dozen? Really? That's overdoing it, guys. But the recipe sold like hotcakes so they kept churning out the product. Fortunes were made. More power to them. Maybe I should have bought some black leather pants and fluffed my hair. I could have retired earlier. That said, I find the '80s hair bands more tolerable than some of the stuff I've mentioned above. I turn the radio volume down, then back up when the song's over. Rap, country, opera, etc. They're turn off and leave off. I'd rather have silence; the veritable definition of "bane" music--music that makes one turn to silence as the alternative. Grey

Oh, hell yeah! Kind of Blue is THE DEFINITE starter album for anyone asking about jazz. For that matter, you could drop into most parts of Davis's career and stake out a beachhead...except for Bitch's Brew. Don't go there. That era is not a good starter period for most people. Yes, it was an incredible formative moment for the upcoming fusion jazz movement, but Bitch's Brew itself is hard to master. To anyone who might think they want to dip a toe into jazz, I second Docbop's suggestion: Miles Davis--Kind of Blue. And as a fringe benefit, it's also well recorded, so it also scratches my audiophile itch. Go for it. For classical, especially this time of year, start with Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker Suite. Or you could go with Swan Lake or... But for me, his 4th Symphony is a must. Absolutely love the whole thing, but have a special fondness coming out of the third movement (Bambi & friends frolicking in the forest) and falling headlong into the fourth movement (a T. Rex comes rampaging through the forest, looking for dinner, and the ensuing madness--create a Disney-fied Bambi vs. Godzilla animation in your head [in mine, the forest creatures exhaust the beast and end up dancing on his worn-to-a-frazzle body, and everyone becomes friends in the end]). Or you can ignore me and listen to songs about rusty pickup trucks and trusty dogs. Nah. Gimme Miles, Rachmaninoff, and Tchaikovsky. (...and Led Zeppelin and Yes and...shut up, Grey...) Grey

My mother went to her grave thinking that if she tried pushing vegetables on me just one more time "...just this once...try it, you never know, you might like it..." that I would suddenly start liking them. Never worked. Once you get past potatoes, I'm done. But make no mistake, if there's an afterlife of some sort she's waiting to pounce, "Grey, would you like some boiled okra?" "No, Ma, the stuff looks like someone threw up on my plate and tastes like crap." People who like country are like my mother. They feel that I--mysteriously--just haven't had enough exposure to the stuff and that if they play me "just one more song..." then somehow the heavens will open, a choir of angels will start singing, and I'll suddenly start liking the stuff. There's a variant on this mindset that thinks that I actually like country/rap/vegetables, but am too stubborn to admit it. In this alternate universe, they try to create a 'safe space' where I'm among people who like whatever it is and can 'come out of the closet.' That one's particularly difficult to deal with. And, frankly, more than a little annoying. Trust me, having lived all my life in the Carolinas, it ain't for lack of exposure to country (or gospel, another genre I can do without). The music exists. There are scads of people who like it. I'm not one of them. Trust me, if that changes I'll let you know, but don't hold your breath. And by the way, Mom, I still HATE lima beans. Don't go fixing any for me, ya hear? Grey PS: There was a hilarious video on YouTube a while back where some guy took--I think it was six consecutive years of the top country songs, according to some music award. He analyzed the chord changes, the beat, the lyrics...everything. They were, for all intents and purposes, identical. I-friggin'-dentical! Then to be really evil about it, he hammered home the point by editing the songs together to make one mashup wherein the verses were alternated from one song to another. And damned if the hybrid song didn't make perfect sense. I think he had to change the pitch of one or two of them (not by much), but they were so cut from the same cloth that they were indistinguishable. Now, before you start complaining that it was only six songs, remember that these were the top songs of their respective years, not some randomly chosen set where the guy set out to find songs that were coincidentally the same. These were the songs that were most popular. You can't look at that and tell me that there's not tremendous pressure to create music that "sounds the same," even if (heaven forbid) the artist might want to do something else. Conservatives (who by far make up the core of the country music audience) want the music to sound the same. It's not some freaky coincidence, it's baked into the warp and woof or their world view. It's comfortable to them.

Yeah...this could get touchy. I think it's safe to say that country music, as it stands today, is a style that predominately appeals to conservative, right-wing-leaning listeners. The subject matter of the songs (broken hearts, broken pickup trucks, broken lives), while tedious and repetitive, is a celebration of a mindset...a frame of mind...an attitude that is dear to conservatives. Some songs are overtly political. Some aren't--they just fit into the conservative lifestyle; a yearning for a simplistic life that fits neatly into a particular box and never strays or does anything unexpected, unless it's to order Coors rather than Budweiser at the bar. If, a century from today, bars look the same, smell the same, sell the same beers, and have the same dusty taxidermy hanging on the walls, that would be just fine. Change is anathema to conservatives and they tend to get hostile if things aren't the same as yesterday. In fact, a large percentage would be just fine with the idea of turning the clock back fifty or seventy-five years, then welding the hands in place. Better still, just smash the damned thing with a hammer and ignore the passage of time entirely. This is why country music is so limited. To go beyond pickup trucks and broken hearts would change things, so the songs all remain the same. Forever. Locked to the same subject matter, because it's safe and predictable. There. Did I manage to do that without raising too many hackles? I tip-toed past politics and didn't mention religion at all. Grey PS: Yes, I'm sure someone will pop in and list three songs, maybe as many as five, that break the mold...but then the pickin's will get slim because there simply aren't that many that dare go beyond the accepted boundaries of what country music is today. There will never be a Yes in country music. There will never be a Steely Dan. There will never be an Elton John. Not allowed. You have to leave the genre to get 11/8 tempos or eclectic, elliptical lyrics.

Rap--and variants thereon--do not work for me. I am willing, reluctantly, to allow that it qualifies as art, but I am not willing to go so far as to call it music. Why? For me, music has to have a melody, not just a beat. Seventh-grade level, banal poetry doesn't work for me, but I can understand that it might for others. But...please, people, can we not have a melody? No, a mindless, trivial, three note, oh-weee-oooo synth riff that never develops does not qualify. Led Zeppelin got away with one simple riff in Whole Lotta Love, but a) The riff was a damned good riff, b) They had Robert Plant on vocals, and c) They never tried it again; just the one time. Anything with samples is a non-starter. I don't want to hear you steal from your betters, I want to hear what you can do. If you can't do, then sit down and shut up. Case in point, a concert I was dragged to by my stepdaughters where the lead-in band had a tune that sampled the main riff from Sugarloaf's Green-Eyed Lady. It was a blatant ripoff. Pissed me off. Incidentally, the headliners were NSYNC, as I recall. Although their music isn't to my taste, at least they didn't steal anything beyond dropping out of the rafters on ropes to the strains of the Mission Impossible theme. I'll go that far. I'm also okay with Yes opening to Stravinsky's Firebird. They didn't incorporate it into their music, pretending that it was their own. Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini--Rachmaninoff--I'm okay with this; he gives attribution right there in the title and the melody develops. (Did the aforementioned band give credit to Sugarloaf? Noooooo, of course not!) Opera and country, to the extent that the vocals use a lot of vibrato, are non-starters for me. I don't know why, but too much vibrato sets my teeth on edge. I've spent years trying to figure out why it annoys me so, but have never been able to rationally explain it. Country, as it stands today, isn't so much a musical genre as a socio-political statement. I'm not there. Period. I'm wild about Romantic era classical, particularly the Russian composers. Earlier music is hit or miss. Later music, meaning 20th Century, frequently strikes me as people bashing trash can lids together. Not my thing. For me, the best classical music written in the 20th Century was composed as movie soundtracks. Any number of famous works were originally conceived as music to accompany ballet, so there's plenty of precedent. But straight 20th Century classical? For the most part, no. Just don't. It's the aural equivalent of those painters who stand back and hurl buckets of paint at a piece of canvas. Or, more precisely, the ones who paint a red triangle, a blue circle, and a black line on a canvas, then stand back and sneer at you because you can't see that it depicts the existential angst of the modern man contemplating the stillness of a pool of water after a storm...as though it's your fault. Sorry, dude, not taking the hit for that one. You're just overrated. Jazz--some works for me, some doesn't. Big bands, as a rule, don't work. Why, I do not know. You'd think that I'd hear it as something like a symphony orchestra. Nope. And, yes, some of it makes me want to run from the room, screaming. Smaller formats--trios, quartets, quintets--work. But the more people they add, the greater the odds that I'm leaving. Blues--I kinda feel like I ought to either love or hate blues, as a genre, more than I do. I don't love it because I don't want that much sadness in my life. Got enough already, thank you very much. Torch--tragic love child of blues and jazz--oddly enough, there have been times in my life where that worked...just not right now. "World music," a term I dislike, though I'm at a loss for a better term, is also a hit or miss proposition. So...who wins the "Bane" award? I'd probably have to say that it would be a toss-up between rap and modern country. Grey

Blast it, I thought I had it so the comics would come up, not just the URLs. Oh, well. Grey

Perhaps I'm the only one who's grown weary of rancor and sundry ugly things, but on the off-chance that there's someone besides me who'd like a break from the yukky stuff, I'm going to offer a comic strip that features musicians (of the classical sort) who are rather passionate about what they do...sometimes very passionate... https://www.gocomics.com/9chickweedlane/2011/03/06 https://www.gocomics.com/9chickweedlane/2007/02/07 https://www.gocomics.com/9chickweedlane/2007/01/26 https://www.gocomics.com/9chickweedlane/2022/04/10 Grey

I have now listened to the official Moog video and their sound samples. Other than the Mariana being stereo, I can't see that it does anything that I can't do with my (ancient) Little Phatty (also two oscillators). While I haven't attempted to replicate their patches, I'm thinking that the LP sounds...smoother?...than the Mariana. Granted, I seem to be out of step with the times, but I think I'll take smoother. Others may prefer the Mariana's sound. It's certainly cheaper than the hardware option. Note that the Little Phatty already has presets for the old Taurus voices as part of its 100 internal sounds. Question to ponder: Should Moog become a software-only company in order to compete with Behringer and others who are undercutting them on hardware pricing? Moog charges a premium price for their products. That is no longer sustainable, apparently. If they decide to sell $50 software synths to beat Behringer's $250-$300 hardware (which, in turn, beats Moog's $5000 pricing for, say, the Model D), is that a viable business strategy? I'm betting that someone will come along and start selling $25 or even $10 software and Moog will be left standing in the rain again. Traditionally they've been a hardware company, then they missed the Eurorack boat entirely, and some of the products (e.g. One) have been just meh, but at premium prices. What can they do to recover from these missteps? Is software the answer? What can Moog do with software that others cannot duplicate or possibly even surpass? My take on the name is that they're trying to evoke the Mariana Trench--as in deep. Just my 2 cents worth. Grey

I got the announcement email and was semi-excited, thinking that maybe it was a successor to the Taurus. Finally got all my daily dragons slain and turned back to the Moog email, only to discover that it's software and none of the sounds in the demo above curl my toes. No, I haven't listened to any of the official Moog videos or demo tracks yet. Yes, I'm sure it's capable of more--much more--but nothing is grabbing me, sonically, and I'm more of a physical hardware guy anyway. Whether it's a pre or post-buyout project, I do not know, but Moog seems to be on a different path than the one I'm on these days. Grey

It appears to me that a disturbing number of people approach online argumentation as a spectator sport, a la gladiators in an arena. What that reveals about those peoples' mindset concerns me. When blood sports become the entertainment of the masses, bad things follow. The veneer of civilization is thin, indeed... Grey PS: And before you criticize my analogy of gladiatorial combat, consider the rise of mixed martial arts. Stop. Be honest. Look for other instances besides MMA. They're there. Our society grows increasingly crude and violent, while people make excuses and say, "It's only in fun!" "They chose to do that, I'm just watching." And let's not forget, "It's a phase, it'll die out." Well, yes, it will...but how long will the cycle last? Six months? A year? A decade? More? This is a slippery slope we're on and we're sliding ever faster because people aren't seeing the overall trend. They look at a small part and say it's nothing. This has happened before and, while you could argue that 'it was only temporary,' how long did it take before things were right again? How many people suffered? A broken bone here, a concussion there. Hey, it's only a game--a sport. Go read history books. It's not one or two broken arms, it's what it says about society overall and, crucially, what happens next.

Thoughts: ---I was a moderator once upon a time on another forum. There were a lot of, shall we say, uninformative posts in threads...enough so that I considered the idea of a "back room" where the adults could talk without interruption. After thinking about it for a while I realized that, no matter how good I felt the idea to be in the abstract, the practicalities were going to be unworkable in the real world for various reasons. ---We have, sadly, reached a point as a society where a lot of people want to be angry. They crave the adrenaline rush of lashing out at people; wounding them--emotionally, if not physically. If I'm right, this will eventually lead to physical violence in the real world, but we need not concern ourselves with that here, it's just that if I'm right things will get worse over time. ---Given that the people who want to be angry are coming from an emotional place, they cannot be reasoned with. You will not "win" an argument with them. Period. Ever. Reason does not penetrate emotion. "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still." ---The angry people feel justified in their position. They have rationalized it and will stick to it like glue. Trying to 'appeal to their better nature' will not work. They think they're already showing their better nature. They feel that their position serves some higher moral purpose and that if people would only admit that they're right, then the world would be a better place...because obviously anyone who disagrees with them is just an ignorant, willful child who must be disciplined and shown the error of their ways. ---Yes, there are people who will go on rants, then calm down. It's not difficult to tell the difference between the angry people and the ones who have a temporary snit. Just watch. The angry ones will reveal themselves...over and over and over... ---I find it difficult to read threads with a lot of ranting. It gets in the way. It lowers the S/N ratio. I don't see any reason to encourage it or condone it. People who act like that perceive tolerance as approval and will continue their behavior. Those who enable the angry people will find that the angry people will become more and more extreme over time until even they regard the angry ones as a burden. By then, it's too late. ---People who are of the angry sort see anger in other peoples' words, even when none was intended. In psychology this is called projection. They project their anger onto others. I could point to a post here where this happened, not too long ago. It's hard to communicate over the web. Nuances get lost. Subtle verbal cues and facial expressions don't make it into posts on a forum and emojis are no substitute. But this projection thing is next level, so to speak. The willful need to misinterpret the words of others as an attack is part of their world view. ---Hypothetical situation: A man walks up to a woman and starts berating her. "You goddamned slut! You whore! You're a disgrace to the human race and you and all of your kind should be killed!" A bystander calls the man out on his behavior. The man adopts a wounded expression and says, "But I'm allowed to say what I want. It's my First Amendment right to do so." Well...yes...and no. The US Constitution and Amendments do allow and protect certain things, amongst them the right to speak out. And that's a good thing. But the process breaks down when people lose all sense of decorum and start saying ugly things, then hiding behind the First Amendment, using it as a get out of jail free card for their bad behavior. This is a complex and difficult problem. Where does free speech end? When does it become something that should, in fact, be restrained by some mechanism? How do you construct a restraint that's fair and reasonable? I could point to certain examples out in the real world, but I'd run afoul of the forum rules in doing so. That's okay. It's just that we're facing a bit of the same problem here. It would be nice if people would employ self restraint, but that's no longer an option, I suppose. ---There have always been angry people. They're not a new phenomenon. What's different is that the proportion of angry people in society has increased and they're becoming bolder. Being more of them, they're able to find each other more easily and they feel more powerful when their feelings are reinforced within their echo chambers, listening to one another, egging each other on. They become more and more extreme over time. ---Personally, my life kinda sucks right now. I don't need the negativity and bullshit. I chose this forum precisely because it seemed calmer and more mature. Where would I go if this forum goes down the tubes? I don't know. All I can say is that when you go to your quiet space, only to find that it's not quiet, you kinda wish you hadn't gone there. No, there are no easy answers. Not out in the world. Not in here. The decisions that would need to be made are above my pay grade, as the expression goes. I'm just one guy seeking a quiet place where I can escape my life for a while. That's getting harder and harder to do. Grey

Somebody mentions Behringer and The Hate Squad shows up. Anybody surprised? Grey

Ah... Something that slipped between the cracks. I had meant to bring this up ages ago and it kept not getting done. Apparently there's a single organ note Morse Code message embedded in Close to the Edge...? I don't remember ever hearing about this before. They don't say specifically where it is, but I went through and listened and think I found it, but it's relatively low level and I'm not able to interpret it. Can anyone find the Morse Code sequence and can you figure out what Wakeman's saying? No, I'm not (yet) saying where I think it is--I don't want to influence anyone's thinking should they decide to go looking. I've got an approximate time stamp where I think it starts. Yes, I tried Googling, but was unable to find an answer, just people saying that they'd heard it was in there. Maybe with a different search string I'd have more luck. I thought I'd toss the idea out to you guys first. Grey

So...now the Moog buyout thread becomes a Behringer-bash thread? Jeez... At least change the title of the thread to more accurately reflect the content. I guess some people just gotta paint the walls with their self-righteous anger, no matter where they go. Count me out. There's enough hysteria and craziness in my world already--don't need more. You guys have fun. Grey P.S.: Might I suggest that those who want to vent about Uli's failings as a human being and Behringer corporate's desire to rule the world start their own, dedicated thread, rather than crapping all over other threads? They could have their own little sandbox where they could rant all they wanted. Just think: An echo chamber where their sermons reverberate from the walls, reinforcing their core beliefs with new conspiracy theories every week. Sound like a plan?

In three-part harmony...this time with feeling: I. Told. You. So. In my Moog One mini-review a couple of years ago, I said it was over. The One was a hollow shell of what it could or should have been and the Moog store was in disarray in many ways. I could feel that something was off. As you may recall, I had a number of people tell me how wrong I was, that the One was a great product, and was selling like hotcakes...blah, blah, blah, woof, woof, woof. I stuck to my guns. Nota bene: I take no pleasure in the loss of Moog. I own four Moog products (if you'll pardon me including my Big Briar theremin in the list) and love them. But...that doesn't make me blind to the fact that the company lost its way. In some alternate universe, someone with deep pockets and a proper understanding of the market--e.g. Roland, Yamaha, Korg...--would buy the company and at least hold the line, if not innovate and move ahead. Sadly, we do not live in that universe. So...five or ten years from now, when the Moog name has been dragged through the mud, we can all take up a collection and buy the remnants for pennies on the dollar and begin the long, slow, painful process of rebuilding the tattered reputation of one of the best synth companies, ever. Thanks. You've been a great audience. Have a safe drive home. Grey

I don't know what the current tour will be like, but I saw Palmer a couple of years ago when he was touring with Yes and Todd Rundgren. There were no keyboards at all. He had a guitarist playing the keyboard parts via some sort of synthesis thing--don't know the particulars. It was unnerving to hear keys when there were no keys. Palmer, for his part, was in fine fettle. Powerful and nearly as fast as in the days of yore. I loved seeing/hearing Palmer again, but found the whole experience disconcerting. Again...I don't know what he's got planned for this go-'round. Grey P.S.: This was the Steve Howe, Alan White version of Yes. White was in a great deal of pain, not doing well at all, only playing part of the songs. Howe's son was filling in when White couldn't manage. I, being me, kept wanting to know what would happen if Palmer were to slide behind the kit and play Yes stuff. No, he didn't. It was just a fantasy of mine. It's still a fantasy of mine. A fusion of Yes and ELP could be quite interesting.