franky46

*edit* aaaah, I hate this f***ing auto formatting forums ... I'my sorry you have to 'imagine' the '....' are spaces. [font:Courier New] Hi, first of all thanks for checking the McOS folder path > That's why the JP8 Brass, in this case, is the lower part (offset 2). 02 is not the lower part, it's the upper part "no. 2". Let's break it up: F0 41 10 62 12 01 02 01 59 01 00 22 F7 => F0 41 10 62 12..: prefix (sysex start byte, sound engine ID ...) 01 02...........: midi manual p 11 "offset": 01 02 00 | Upper Part Information (SYNTH DUAL2) 01..............: midi manual p11 "upper part information": 00 01 | 0aaa aaaa | TONE NUMBER [you take only the 2nd byte] 59 01 00........: pc, msb, lsb 22..............: roland checksum F7..............: sysex end byte you must regard the offsets as a "classical summation" | 01 02 00 | Upper Part Information (SYNTH DUAL2) |........<= section 'Start' | .. 00 01 | 0aaa aaaa | TONE NUMBER.......................<= section "upper part information" ------------ | 02 02 01 | ......... <= "sum" > Can I use the info to send the VR09 a sysex command to call up a registration? If you mean the 25x4 "registration sets": no, unless there is an undocumented thus unkown sysex, it's not possible (something critisised on the VR09). You can only load individual 'sound' patches , e.g. like the editor app does > I am still figuring out what the associated 11byte lines define for the tones e.g.: F0 41 10 62 12 01 02 65 01 17 F7 => F0 41 10 62 12....: prefix 01 02.............: midi manual p 11: 01 02 00 | Upper Part Information (SYNTH DUAL2) 65 01.............: undocumented. Guess 65 references the size in bytes of the whole section "Upper Part Information". You can use this number when requesting a sysex dumb 17 F7.............: checksum + sysex end now you should be able to identify the other sysex f[/font]

hi, there's a fast fix for the cutted off panel workspace, please repeat the download of v1.12.3. We have no possibility at home to test the panel on IOS: is the register save/load in SoundExplorer/GM2 working and is the file correctly saved (Documents-folder)?

V-Combo Editor v1.12(3) : http://ctrlr.org/roland-vr09-vr730-v-combo-editor/

found the thinking error, sorry, totally ignored the VR-drum section. Yet another thing to implement to explain: if you send progam changes (sound patterns) to the VR for the VR-inherent sounds, you use SysEx messages (different from addressing GM2-sounds using dedicated midi channels). That's what the panel does and also VArranger has to do. To load the sound to a dedicated 'voice' (upper manual, lower manual, dual etc) a special SysEx prefix is used: F0 41 10 62 12 01 01 ..... Upper Manual "VCE-voice" F0 41 10 62 12 01 03 ..... Upper Manual "SYN-voice" etc and there is one particular voice only for drums: F0 41 10 62 12 01 41 01 ...... this solves the problem of redundancy / conflicts: here's a new file for you where 'Drums' is an 'instrument' by itself : http://rrr.de/~franky/upload/RolandVR09Atelier.zip Frank

thanks a lot for pointing this out, Wes! found an additional 20 byte array (expr. pedal?) in the header of each registration patch. obviously there is byte giving the header length (80 for the old, 100 since v.1.11/13), so we can make this compatible

Hi Nils, thank you very much for giving feedback !I hop this will answer your questions: > I first opened with notepad and everything was in a long row. Then opened in wordpad and it was readable I'll change this (this is due to the use of unix tools) > It also says 1 should med added to the numbers. subtile difference between program change address (PC) and program change number (PC#), example Pop Kit 4: PC# MSB LSB 4(03h) 1(01h) 0(00h) when you compare the digital and the hex number (h like hex) of the PC# value, you see that "digital" = "hex + 1" <=> 4 = 03h+1. The digital number represents the program change _number_, a kind of 'index' or id. The hex number represents the program change _address_, e.g. the real midi address. E.g. program change number (or short 'program change') "6" has the address "5" etc. Program change numbers go from 1 to 128 Program change addresses go from 0 to 127 As I learned from your example, .ins file is using the range 0..127 thus the _address_ (which equals the number minus 1) The values in the Atelier.ins file should be correct. > 0=Drm:STANDARD etc... [...] and there is says LSB 120 (CC32) MSB 0 (CC0). Atelier organs have 3 'midi interfaces': The instrument-dependent Atelier (AT) sounds and the machine-independent standards General-Midi-2 (GM2) and GS (Roland standard): Example : "STANDARD-2" drum kit : pay attention on the order of the LSB/MSB/PC/PC# numbers: 1. AT: PC MSB LSB = 00h 00h 40h 2. GM2: MSB LSB PC# = 0 120 1 3. GS: MSB LSB PC# = 0 64 1 with 40H = 64 and PC#=1 == PC=0 you see that AT is the same as GS. When you wrote "LSB 120 (CC32) MSB 0 (CC0)" then its a typo for sure, it should mean "MSB 120 (CC0) LSB 0 (CC32)" and this is the GM2-interface. In our case, the .ins file addresses the machine dependent "AT" sounds. > but I don't understand how it is not in conflict > 0=Org:Full Organ1 from the beginning? Wow, I was not aware of this, this is a big issue as the V-Combo Editor uses the same midi values. I tested the V-Editor 'ATELIER' section drums and indeed, the selection of any drumit loads an instrument sound (organ, strings...) It seems that Atelier Organs use a special addressing of their drum kit generators. I'll try to find out the trick (though the Atelier world seems hermetically closed for outsiders...) > In the Atlier midi implementation I'm unfortunately not able to mark and copy oh yeah use a pdf-Reader like Sumatra PDF (fast and extremly lightweight) or Foxit I copy-paste the sound midi tables to a text file and use unix (shell) scripts to process the file If you need mass processing of data, just ask me. > I haven't got the VR-09 yet. I was thinking between the VR-730 but I think it's not worth the added cost. It's all about the keybed. If it's the same bed as in the VR700/730 Roland this can be a game changer. If you go for the VR09 you can save money by getting an end of stock VR09 without 'b' and do the firmware upgrade. > I think a complete file for VR series should be a really great thing. don't worry, we'll get this thing working f

@ Nils the Atelier ins-File: rrr.de/~franky/upload/RolandVR-Atelier.zip Could you please give feedback ? @ all: Pre-annoucment: feature update V-Combo Editor (should be available the next days): - added: selector for VR-Keyboard sounds. Nice side effect: extra VR730-voices can be accessed on a VR09 - added: Sythesizer control for the GM2-Sounds (A/D/R, cutoff, resonance) - added: "brigthness" controls for piano (general brightness and extra brightness when pressing virtual sustain-pedal) and eventually the most usefull: - added: basic registration for GM2-Sounds and Sound-Explorer: sounds 'discovered' with the direct bank selectors (msb/lsb/pc#) can now be saved to (and loaded from) registrations using a custom name. All Registrations are saved to a file and are available at next startup Actual number of registrations is 32banks x 8patches = 256 pathches (but could be increased to 128x128 patches on demand) - and it's free (vive l'internet libre!) NB: the task "rearranging the VR-Keyboard registrations" is not forgotten, I think technically it's possible using the upg-files

Hi Nils, something interesting: these is the instr. def. list for the Roland BK09, the banks do not rely to an instrument category either. Same with BK07. It's not nice but it seems to be usual Maybe there is a way to group sounds within the vArranger ...? The list for the VR will come the next days. When will you get your VR09? --- (last 2 digits is msb & lsb) [bK-9 Bank 5 ] 5 º Crystal EP 0 5 8 º BPF-Clavi Ph 0 5 99 º Music-Bells 0 5 20 º 8+4+2 Princ 0 5 23 º BluesHrp V/S 0 5 27 º JGuitar Scat 0 5 etc...

@Nils thank you very much. Hmmm, here are some PC#s for the Atelier section. we can group them into msb-lsb banks , but the banks will not correspond to an instrument category. With all the Atelier PC# definitions, we get a total of 17 different msb-lsb pairs aka banks. is this correct? could you live with those 'wild banks' ? ====================================== # midi pc ATELIER: # PC# MSB LSB Full Organ1 00h 00h 00h Full Organ2 02h 00h 00h Full Organ3 04h 00h 00h Full Organ4 01h 00h 00h Full Organ5 03h 00h 00h Full Organ6 05h 00h 00h Full Organ7 20h 00h 00h Full Organ8 20h 01h 00h Full Organ9 20h 02h 00h ... Piano2 4Fh 00h 00h ====================================== # .ins-file: .Patch Names [bank 1] 0=Full Organ1 2=Full Organ2 4=Full Organ3 1=Full Organ4 3=Full Organ5 5=Full Organ6 32=Full Organ7 79=Piano2 ... [bank 2] 32=Full Organ8 ... [bank 3] 32=Full Organ9 .Instrument Definitions [Roland VR-AT] Patch[0]=Bank 1 Patch[1]=Bank 2 Patch[2]=Bank 3

Hello Roy, to precise, when you speak about patches, you mean the registration (banks) and to rearrange them on keyboard? If so: the onboard registrations cannot be accessed and manipulated by midi. But as many VR-owner I was thinking about this problem. The solution is to use the registration export to USB-stick instead of midi. The full registration set is saved to a VR09_nmk.UPG file on the usb-stick. These files are binary encoded and can be edited with a hex editor. Each single registration is represented by a binary block that can be moved to other positions within the file (this works). As the CTRLR Panels can access the filesystem of the PC, it should be possible to write a parser for the upg-files. The tool chain would be: on VR, save registration set, move the usb-stick to the PC, load the .upg-file to the V-Combo editor, rearrange the registrations and save, move the stick back into the VR, load the new registration set. This seems possible, but this won't be for tomorrow. An other feature to implement: with the all those new sounds, it would be nice to have the possibility to save and reload sound-registrations within the app... so a lot of ideas, 2018 won't be boring f

Servus @Nils: Nice idea ! But I have no glue about .ins files. From some documents I found it seems feasible to make a .ins file using the msb/msb/pc numbers, assuming the Arranger uses the 'bank'-formula '128*msb+lsb' ??! Do you have the .ins file specification? 4all: "V-Editor" update (dropped the KBD/GM2-tab to simplify working aera) http://ctrlr.org/roland-vr09-vr730-v-combo-editor don't know if I have better ears... hm, something to think about - at least it would be anything sensible in my anatomy... In the end it's a question of personal taste (said the ape and bite the soap..as Germans say), expectation and application.

Hello, the V-Combo Editor is now on the CTRLR website: http://ctrlr.org/roland-vr09-vr730-v-combo-editor @xKnuckles The VR09 and the eternal discussion I am no adept of a specific Hammond clone sound, I like the former Roland VR/VKs, the Nords, the XK/XS, Numas, Visconts and I am far from being a "pure Hammond-sound" fanatic, I get my goosebumps from the warm, swirling sound of my chérie, the ol'Acetone GT plugged to a 'crappy' Echolette. But the VR09, errrr, no. Not for my ears What I don't like about it? To start with the most important, the clean 'base' sound, which in the case of the VR is missing the overtone spectrum that makes a Hammond (clone) sound like a Hammond (clone) and not a cheesy Bontempi sine generator. Then I try to compensate adding a bit of the missing overtones (e.g. some 4" and 2" to 8" etc), then start adding effects. To get a kind of rock organ I play with OD (the 'distorsion' overdrive ... yeah, it adds... distorsion), compression, twin rotary, the tone-dial, organ EQ, etc, short, everything that never belonged to a pizza... I find a nice sound on two octaves, but when I quit those it returns to bad, when I get the higher tones right the lowers lack ground, when I get the lowers right, the highers become dumb, missing brilliance and 'scream'. It's the thing with those disco girls layering tons of cosmetics on their face which makes them look like Mrs. Schiffer at the first glance, but better do not take a second look... And then it comes to Jazz. That's my favorite (and I really really like ... the Dennerlein style) Everything based on 8880... totally sucks on the VR09, and it's no 'ok I can live with it" - it's awfull, it hurts my ears (and not only mine!), my mind and my psyche. In my dispair I once plugged the VB3 to the VR audio-in, put earphones on and spend weeks to reproduce the VB3 sounds on the VR. For some few it worked, but for the majority, oh my godness! No soul, no warmth, no magic, no mystic, no 'drug'. Sincerely, I offer a bottle of good wine to the first who presents me a warm 8880...-like tube sound coming out of the VR. This said, this is NO criticism of the VR, it is what it is. I own it since two-fourteen and after a period of glowing hate after leaving the initial expectations , started to like it, really. It's a highly mobile 5kg car boot allrounder that can do everying on a decent but not amateur level. My only, very personal regret, if only Roland would have continued the VK8 engine... f

was your question to me? the fw was the reason that I started updating Mauros V-Combo app (and then went a bit further...). Yes, the organ sound is better but still not nice. anyway, the standalone app (does not require to install the CTRLR platform) http://rrr.de/~franky/upload/V-Combo.exe f

Cheers, did a little work to upgrade the VR Edtior App Windows version available for the (opensource) CTRLR midi-panel platform. until I'll check it in at CTRLR, it's downloable from my website: http://rrr.de/~franky/upload/V-Combo_1121_366_v1.12.1-GM.b14.zip intergrated actual firmware v1.12 added sound selector for the Roland Atelier Organ sounds (~ aprox. 600) added 'sound explorer' for the hidden accoustic + synth sounds on the keyboard-tonegenerators (serveral 100s) added 'sound explorer' for the GM2-sounds (300 official GM2 sounds + 100s of others) increased timbrality (up to 6 parallel voices in upper+lower manual) with respect to the pure keyboard. boost timbrality up to 18 layered voices or 21 in total for the key using GM2-sounds draftstyle tutorial in english and teutonic. laptop/tablet setup example for playing GM2 sounds live most important update: real B3-Style virtual drawbars unfortunately the app does NOT make the VR sound like an organ (no illusional hopes! ) (hmm... maybe we should think about integrating the VB3 into the app... even with the 'soundcard' of my 200 bucks Win-tablet the VB3 sounds 10x better than the VR09...)

Hello thanks a lot. So we have to deal with it I'll try your 8-the note trick this evening. Totally agree with you with the market niche Roland was aiming at, it's not a 700/760 successor or another Hammond clone. They could have been more accurate with the software though. Franky

Question(s) on VR 09 Hello MPN, We bought a VR 09 one year ago (because of weight and battery supply) but got the time to explore it only in the last weeks. Since we encountered all those known design bugs (working as an IT professional this reminds me of what you get when giving a project to a bunch of junior programmers comming straight from high school or as the glorious result of another gloriously outsourced development...). Serious.... here is a quite annoying phenomene: when switching between registrations loaded with lots of effects (eg. to make the organ sound like something that could be interpreted as an organ ), there is something like declining artifacts of the effects of the former register on the new register. It's very clear when switching from organ to piano, where overdrive, compression etc is applied to the piano for the first 1-2 seconds right after the switch: http://frrranky.de/upload/RegisterWechsel_AtelierOff.WAV http://frrranky.de/upload/RegisterWechsel2_AtelierOff.WAV The effect is less worse when the VR runs in Atelier mode, it seems that the (organ) effects are more radicaly switched off when you change to the new register. Do you all encounter the same effect (= another design bug) or is this a particular problem of my VR 09 (it's sill under guarantee, so I could send it in for repair). Firmware is v1.03 (I did the update twice but no change). Another question on the "single touch quick access mode" (the 3 buttons Organ-Piano-Synth): with the factory organ beeing unusable, is there any (undocumented) trick to save a customized organ to the quick access mode? Thanks a lot & pardonnez-moi my english Franky