nadroj
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Posts posted by nadroj
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5 hours ago, Begoozam said:
This one takes me right back to Prince-land!
Interesting that you say that; I was giving a guitarist friend a lift to a gig recently and let him hear this, along with a couple more of Cory’s new tunes. He’s an older guy, and almost straight away, the first thing he said was “I see Cory has started channeling his inner Prince.”
I didn’t notice it until he mentioned it, and now I can’t unhear it!
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Oh look, a thread I can actually contribute to as a primary source.
It really, really depends on what you want.
I got the MODX after years of owning an Electro. It was supposed to be my 1 board replacement rig. It wasn’t.
Some players will argue against this, but it simply didn’t feel like a purely giggable board. It’s plastic chassis is good, but didn’t feel as durable as my FA06. It’s keybed is certainly playable, but struggles compared to the montage or electro.
The preset EPs/Clavs/organs of the MODX compared to the Electro are laughable. They don’t play well on the action, and to my ears just sound overly processed. Especially if you go to the “audition” patches (where each scene has a different version of the EP) it just sounds like they tried too hard to replicate the real thing with all of the noises and characteristics, but totally dropped the ball when it comes to actually sounding and playing like the real deal. I got to something passable eventually, but it took a lot of tweaking, and even the shittiest Rhodes on my elderly Nord feels and sounds better than the best custom made EP on my MODX - even when both are played through the same weighted Yamaha controller.
Saying that, the purgatory creek sounds are stellar, but in my opinion the shorty plasticky “could break if I even think of doing a glissando sweep” MODX keybed doesn’t do them justice - if you like to feel the instrument during your playing you’ll struggle on the MODX.
Organs on the MODX are utterly terrible. Organamitron (or whatever it’s called) makes them passable, but they won’t hold a candle to the Electro. I’ve never been a fan of workstation organs. Maybe compared to the Korg M1, they’re great. But a clonewheel the MODX ain’t.
Now, if we’re talking synth and sound design capabilities, take every shitty thing I’ve said about the MODX and apply
it to the Electro. Once I learned how to use the MODX, I found there were few sounds and songs I couldn’t coax out of it. The superknob and pedal functions mean you will struggle to find a board outside of Kurzweil that let you warp and change so much live and in the moment.
It’s so deep you’ll probably never, ever explore all of its synthesis and sound design capabilities. If you’re after a powerhouse digital/FM synthesiser with ok ROMpler tones on a compromisably shitty action, the MODX is best in town. It’s so deep I struggled to get some SIMPLE sounds out of it, and actually found it easier getting complex setups out of it…but as I said, if you take the time to learn it, there will be few sounds you cannot get out of it. It is truly a digital powerhouse, and one of the best bang for buck keyboards released in recent years.
The Nord on the other hand is bogus. It has a sample synth, but if you want specific sounds, you have to sample them yourself. There’s no pitch bend (unless you attach a seperate MIDI controller), cutoff, modulation or any of that. It’s a shitty synth, but can play sampled synth sounds passably.
I hope you’ve seen by now that they are both excellent at what they do, but are very different instruments.
The MODX excels at deep shit; the Electro excels at simple shit. Neither do the other one’s shit well. If you put them together (like I did in my old rig) you will come to a point where you’ll have nothing to blame for lacking in any area than your own musicality.-
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Drummer. Did a sub gig a couple of weeks ago. Guitarist was embarrassingly sloppy, but we could have gotten away with it…
…But had a sub drummer too, and he was just terrible. No groove, didn’t know the songs, terrible timing and fills, didn’t know how to end songs, couldn’t do anything well. I spent most of the night cringing. If we had the normal drummer it would have been fine.
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I play a lot of ska stuff. I’ve never liked playing transistor sounds, but 90% of my live playing is Vox and piano. The 80s British 2-tone revival craze had a lot of Vox in it. Some of it was just because the working class boys couldn’t get a hold of a Hammond. A little is because they liked it.
I used to use “cheesy” Hammond sounds as someone alluded to earlier (white drawbars out, V3, bob’s your uncle) but during COVID I started playing around with the Vox sounds and it sounded more authentic.
Problem is, depending on the venue the Nord transistor organs either struggle to cut through, or pierce your ear drums. At a festival last night I couldn’t pull anything other than the first 4 bars out on my Vox patch because it just sounded awful (other than the last 2, obviously). I normally just pull the 6+7 bars out on the Nord Vox to cut through. First 4 is the tone.
The funny thing is, when these ska bands play those classic Vox songs live today, they all use Hammonds. Every other ska keys player I know sticks to Hammond. I’m tempted to do the same. The Vox sounds authentic, but that doesn’t mean it always sounds pleasant.
Some of the transistor examples above have been stellar. Turns out they can actually sound pretty cool when they want to be.
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1 hour ago, stoken6 said:
Yeah, if I wanted a keyboard that didn't have drawbars but desperately needed them, I'd probably put the Nautilus ahead.
Cheers, Mike.
May I ask why?
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22 hours ago, Still VanDerGraaf said:
UK £1699. That's better than I was hoping for.
It seems a hell of a lot of keyboard for the money. Is there something I’m missing? What’s the catch?
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Actually sounds pretty interesting. Would be even more interesting to hear which 25 virtual instruments come with it.
Internal power supply too.
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3 hours ago, Morrissey said:
Go easy on yourself. Big task to get two hands to sound like four very busy, syncopated hands.
I remember learning it that way once. Played it with a band, sounded pretty good, but it didn’t work quite as well transposed into E.
Then I played it with my main band at the time. Prepped myself to do the proper intro in yet another key, and then OH GUESS WHAT, the guitarist started playing the riff. The “wrong” way. Dance floor still filled, I gave up, accepted my fate as guitarist B and went back to playing it the pleb way along with him.
World hasn’t stopped spinning.
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You quoted my post just before I deleted the “proper” part 😂 I don’t know, which is why I switched it to “organists”.
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Organists: do you see the pitch bend and effects as a cool extra feature you might actually use sometime, or just a gimmick?
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Great keyboard, but I just couldn’t connect with it. Didn’t like the keys, a lot of the sounds were “plasticky” to me - though ironically I enjoyed the same sounds out of the CP/YC range. Even playing basic logic sounds from it felt better.
synth is cool. If it’s a backup keyboard it’ll probably be great, but worth playing to make sure you gel with it. In terms of feel, a motif it ain’t.
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I’m trying to withhold comment until I actually know what it does, but I’d agree with @Delaware Dave’s comment - where do they get their marketing info?
The thing I’m really struggling with just now is knowing what will set this apart from the Seven. Judging by the control panel and additional features we can see…not a lot. The Seven also will at least hold a keyboard on it. This looks like it won’t.
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Motorised drawbar faders, but no waterfall action even though past models had it?
I’ll take “backward design decisions that make me claw at my head” for 500
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Can anyone remember if @OB Dave’s Drawbars worked with the FA? If they do, would they work the same with the FANTOM-0?
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19 hours ago, Calumet said:
To address what the original poster said:
I read through this entire thread and only once did I see anything related to “language” or “vocabulary.” I would suggest that what the OP wants is some new language and ability to incorporate that into his current playing. But, at the same time, he seems unwilling or disinterested (for one reason or another) in really investigating the source of a lot of the vocabulary that would lead him to the improved facility he craves.
Just to add a bit of context here - I’ve a bunch of slowed down files on my laptop of transcriptions I’ve taken from guys like Cory Henry, Shaun Martin, David Paich (he had some lovely runs on a live version of georgy porgy I simply had to learn), Billy Preston, George Duke, Richard Tee (left hand in the “stuff’s stuff” live at Montreux solo is still kicking my ass but I’m getting there) Billy Joel, Stevie Wonder, etc. There’s even a Charlie Parker diminished run I’m working on just now, but that’s an exception. A lot of my practice time is taken up transcribing whole solos or licks by ear and figuring out how to fit the vocabulary into the funk and soul stuff I play.
The deeper question in my OP was more akin to; am I shooting myself in the foot learning this stuff without delving further down history into straight jazz territory? That, thankfully, has been answered.
Just clarifying that it’s not for lack of ambition or willingness - more wanting to know whether or not I’m better off doing something else. Which has been answered!
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7 hours ago, ProfD said:
To @nadroj, I hope that your take away from this thread is to 1) be comfortable in your own skin as a musician and 2) play with like-minded musicians.
Also, check out Jazz pianist Robert Glasper. IMO, he's the cat who brings it all together musically. 😎
Thanks ProfD. That’s certainly something I’ve taken from it, and I’m glad my retrospective late night hotel room tirade sparked such a great discussion.
Earlier in the thread someone mentioned it sounds like I’m trying to get the acceptance of my peers, and I think there’s been a bit of that. While it’s lessened a bit as I’ve moved into my 30s, acknowledging that has been helpful.
Not that I need an internet forum’s opinion to relax in my own skin (or hey, maybe I do) but I’ve certainly had more peace sitting in front of the keyboard the past couple of days knowing what I want to play, and the direction I want to go in, and what I don’t have to try and make myself.
3~ pages is too much for me to reply to individually, but I’ve read all the responses and have found them immensely helpful as usual. Thanks folks 🤙
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That time I created a poorly titled thread about jazz that sparked a discussion way out of my depth.
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Thanks for the replies folks, read through them all and they’re pretty encouraging. I actually do enjoy playing some of the tunes mentioned above. Are they jazz? Who knows. Throwing labels around isn’t helpful, but it’s good to have perspective about the kind of player I’d be happy being.
More than happy to dedicate my time to knowing a handful of tunes well, rather than half-assing a bunch of tunes for the sake of it.
Regarding goals, my aim just now is to get to the point where I can express myself musically. Not being locked in, but being able to play what I hear in my head and play in a way that reflects me. Not there yet, but that’s my goal. My ambitions of making a living off of music full time are long past lol. Actually did that when I was a student (music paid the bills back then) but with a young family, I can’t do that now. Day job needed for that. Personal satisfaction and a handful of good experiences is the aim of the game.
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Bit of a personal post. Posting this here because you may be one of the few communities online who get what I’m taking about.
disclaimer: This is a long post. Sorry.
preface: forgive my wide ranging and vague use of the word “jazz” in this post. I’m aware of how broad a category it is.
From growing up in the college music scene where “good” was synonymous with having jazz chops, where college lecturers (incidentally, usually the non-instrumentalist tutors) would comment that they were looking for “faster lines” to get a better grade, to the current cancerous Instagram music culture where people with the most out-there chops get the most views and get most attention from the algorithms.
I don’t want to be a jazzer, but for a lot of my peers, jazz is the be all and end all. And the truth is that in the genres I really connect with (blues, funk, gospel), there’s a hell of a lot of overlap with mainstream jazz. Players who are good at one are usually good at the other.
I’m in a hotel room just now watching a documentary about Clapton, and hell, say what you want about him, but I’d probably enjoy playing sets like that night after night more than anything I had to do in college to fit in.
During my time in college I got invited into the city’s main jazz circle once, where all the best musicians are, and was asked to fill in for someone at a straight jazz gig. I never got asked back, and promptly removed myself from that scene afterwards. It just wasn’t me, and the result was that I didn’t get to know the music scene here in the same way a lot of my peers did. I still played regularly, and was sought after for other reasons, but never for my chops. Problem is now that I’m in a place where I actually want some chops, I still don’t want to play jazz.
The problem I have is that it’s hard to find a non-jazz musician who knows their stuff and CAN’T also play jazz well. “Oh great, he’s a blues guy, he’s really good at what he does and he doesn’t seem to have many jazz ch— oh look here’s a video of him playing Actual Proof with one hand” is common.
That’s the thing that discourages me. Just now I’m mostly liking rhythm based guys - guys who’s music is based mostly
off of making melody and grooves…but if you look them up on YouTube chances are you’ll find those same guys shredding through Giant Steps changes like it’s nothing.
Which brings me to the peak of my rant: do you have to do jazz to be “good”? Are there examples of killer players who never touched a jazz standard in their life? Guys who could express themselves
melodically and technically, but who didn’t get into the jazz scene?
Another example: Two weeks ago a guitar lecturer at a local college subbed in for us. He got a solo during a song that just vamps on Am, and I don’t think he touched the tonic once, but it sounded so fluid, musical and simply better than everyone else (at least to the musicians on stage - I don’t think the punters agreed 😂). I caught myself thinking “man I wish I could play like that” but then I remembered he’s also a jazzer who could play something melodic over a room full of monkeys banging on 100 pianos. I’ve a good enough ear and know my theory well enough to recognise what modes and tone centres he was playing in, but do I have to dedicate my time to learning straight jazz to sound like that??
I mean take something like “are you going my way” by Methany. Not a whole lot going on in that tune harmonically…but Mays and Methany made something so wonderful out of it; would they have been able to do that if they weren’t jazzers at heart? Mays was always so melodic and thoughtful in much of his playing, but the guy could shred over anything if you let him. Was the former because of the latter?
Now don’t get me wrong. Minor blues standards I can dig. I love taking something like “isn’t she lovely” and figuring out ways to reharm it and make something different out of it (and figuring out how to play something melodic and interesting over it).
Fusion I can get, reharm I do for fun, outside licks and transcribing I do occasionally, but I don’t want to have to force myself to play through standards and learn stuff I don’t want to play simply because it’s a good musical exercise. I’d rather spend the limited time I now have playing music I actually enjoy.
Anyone able to empathise or offer a word of advice?
Watching Clapton just now and seeing the various ages of the guys in his band is reminding me that if I spend the next 10 years focusing on what I actually like playing, there’s plenty of time for me to be half the musician I want to be by my mid-40s. I’m very fortunate in that , God willing, I’ve still a a lot of years left to play and improve at what I want to, and that I’m nowhere near my prime yet.
If you’ve read this far, thanks. Anyone able to empathise? What’s your experience with this?
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Make sure you join the Facebook page and check out this website here. The 3rd party editor unlocks a lot functionality, makes it 7 part multi-timbral, with 4 separate split zones - without needing a laptop. You connect it to the app, set it up, save it to a registration and that’s you. Can take it to the gig and play your saved registrations without your laptop. There are some caveats, but it’s worth looking into if you want to go deep.
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Got a chance to play the Fantom-07 today. Definitely playable, action was pretty decent. Based on comments here I thought it would be very similar to the FA06, but it wasn’t. Much closer to the FA07 imo. Pleasantly surprised! The slightly bigger keys make it more playable than the MODX to me.
Also surprisingly, I really struggled with the interface to start with, but got there in the end. Main thing I discovered…yeah, that missing 9th drawbar is a pain. Wouldn’t work for me.
They had the new Juno X too, felt and sounded great. Really solid piece of kit. That board will probably make a lot of people very happy.
Tried the latest offerings from Yamaha and Nord too, but the keyboard I connected with most was…
…A Kronos 2 61. That action is buttery, and it still sounds miles ahead than the other workstations imo.
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22 minutes ago, stoken6 said:
How "synth lead" does it have to be? Not many 4-octave boards (MX49 is the leader of a very small pack). Some 3-octave "pure synths" with no ROMpler capabilities.
My initial thoughts were Roland VR09 (ROMpler with a bit of synth, but one octave and one organ too many?) / KingKorg (I think that's got some ROMpler capabilities, but again 5 octaves and wide) / Roland Boutique controlled from your Electro (onboard pitch/mod ribbons, zero octaves, no ROMpler) / Korg Wavestate or Modwave.
What's your budget?
Cheers, Mike.
I’m not against modules with a pitch bend. Minilogue XD has one, so does the Argon module.
vr730 is a contender, but would be a replacement rather than an addition.
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Looking for a cheap, 49keyish (or smaller) board to sit above an Electro (or similar organy instrument). Mostly for synth leads, but ROMpler sounds would be a plus. Something that can fit in a small bag and be carried easily enough with the rest of my gear. Not hugely keen on soloing on mini keys.
Off the top of my head I can think of:
- Yamaha MX49
- Roland GAIA SH-01
Anything else that would fit the bill?
Matt Johnson show his small gig rig
in The Keyboard Corner
Posted
I went into this chuffed thinking we’d see a touring pro show off his “little synth on top of a vintage vibe” rig, then saw the L shape and wondered if he knew what “small” meant.
His “small” rig is 4 x the size of my “main” rig 😂
Would love to see a small intimate MJ jazz/funk gig though, regardless of the rig!