nadroj
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Posts posted by nadroj
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6 hours ago, Mitch Towne said:
A quick demonstration of my previous post.I’ll do the classic “Subscribe to my channel!” plug here. I have posted some other organ-centric instructional things and will post more in the future. Thanks!
There's already a tonne of good stuff in this thread and some of the info above this quoted post is golddust, but Mitch I just want to let you know how much I appreciate you taking the time to put those videos together today, they are incredibly helpful and I'll no doubt have them on repeat in the coming weeks. Thank you.
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Holy crap, I come back and my question has been answered by several people giving indepth theory/written out notes, suggestions for tunes, links to classes, youtube videos and even some custom made on the spot lessons. Blown away.
That's a lot of stuff to look through, and I'd be lying if I said I've had the time to look over everything above properly yet - thanks so much to everyone who has contributed, this is going to send me well on my way. I'm going to make sure to pick my way through everything shared here. Will no doubt have more questions once I start diving into all of the above - watch this space.
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So I recently got my first dual manual clone and now I'm all in. Well, partially - I'm not quite at the basspedal stage, and won't be for a long while. One thing at a time...
Over the years I've picked up a couple of basic LH walking formulas for things like Autumn Leaves (1-3-5-b5), or (1-2-3-b4-4) etc for going from chord to chord in basic standards, and could probably spend a year just doing that, but I'm not really a straight jazz guy. I am wanting to branch out and make a real go at getting that left hand down, though.
So far I've been listening to Jimmy Smith. His basslines obviously change based on the tune, but one thing I've already noticed is that he seems to start his basslines fairly "simple" and then go wham later on. There seem to be a few patterns there - I'm not yet sure if he does the same thing on various tunes. Maybe he has a formula I've not worked out yet. Just now I'm working on "Back at the Chicken Shack". It's deceptively simple at the start but branches out as the choruses go on (it also helped me realise how bad I am at trilling chords in my RH). I've been playing "Green Onions" for years and have picked that back up. It seems 90% of youtube performances of that tune (even from the greats themselves) have a bass player during the solos. I figured I'd make a go at practicing soloing over that, with the LH bass too, just to get me the practice playing with dotted/ghost notes.
Any other tunes I should look at for developing some LH bass technique/chops (of various styles), or any general resources someone can point me to? Hopefully you've gathered that I'm not looking for "easy" solutions; I'm all on board with putting the work in over the long haul, ie. listening to tunes, slowing them down, isolating the bass then copying it.
Also, bonus question: what the hell do you do with ballads? I've tried listening to organ versions of misty, etc, and just can't pick out what the LH is doing cos most of them are so slow.
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Ok it’s half past midnight and I’m finally in bed.
I kinda get the gas pedal now. On the Nord it was just “bring it down here for some texture, or don’t; too loud isn’t a worry.” Adding drawbars was more textural; the volume wasn’t changed too much.
With this SKX the difference between a straight jazz 888 and full stops out is monstrous. Add in C3 and a bit of overdrive and…well, my ears are still ringing. There are solos in the band where I start with a couple of drawbars out then end with everything going full ham. I’m going to have to be careful on Saturday or I’ll blow the guys off the stage. I can’t see any point in the set where full stops out and expression pedal maxed will be appropriate now. People cringe at my solos anyways, I don’t need to give them another reason by bursting their ear drums. Will need to work on my expression pedal use I think.
Is that normal or should I tweak the settings a little more? Im not used to all of the normal organ parameters (c/v), percussion, OD, drawbars, etc) affecting the volume so much.
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And freaking hell the way the drive interacts with the swell is miles above my old Nord.
It’s the little subtleties that really make the experience
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Guess what I picked up today.
Spent a while setting the SKX up. Updated to the latest firmware (seemed to fix the hissing issue I mentioned above!), installed some of the library sounds, and found a version of Jim's Tonewheel Set that someone had converted for the SKX. Initial thoughts after 2 hours of non-stop tweaking:
- It's a niche board, but it's my dream instrument. I'm not a pianist (or an organist) so I don't need weighted keys. I've been wanting to get into the 2-manual game for a while. The splits/layers with the two extra voices are actually pretty flexible and will cover everything that i need, and then some. My band (who I'm all over the country with almost every week for the rest of the year) is a ska/funk tribute/originals hybrid band, so I just need organ and some bread and butter sounds. Very few complex setups, though there are a couple. I've started programming it for its first gig on Saturday and already it's miles more convinient than my Electro 4. 80% of the gig will be piano on bottom manual, organ on top.
- It's built like a tank. It's fairly heavy, but easy to carry. The wooden side panels give it some girth, and the metal chassis feels as solid as my Nord ever did. The only things I hope will last are the inputs (plastic, not metal), the knobs and the power supply. On the power supply, it is external, not internal - though I have seen some people mod theirs. I don't plan on doing that to mines. I'm ordering a spare power supply for this week just in case. I'm hoping the whole unit will last me a while.
- That LCD screen is small but does its job. Tells me everything I need to know. Hope that lasts too, actually, I've heard some horror stories about the SK screens.
- Jim's Quasi Tonewheel set (created by another guy based on Jim's set for the SK2) has totally transformed it. It now sounds more like the organs I hear on records and in live shows than my Nord ever did. It was probably a bit shrill in the upper octaves so I've lowered the EQ and I'm now in swirly, hammondy creamy heaven. This is the closest I've ever had to the "real thing" in terms of sound and feel. I'm in love. I may get a vent 2 mini in the summer, but honestly for now it's such a step up from my Nord (which I've been happy with for almost 10 years now) that I don't think I'll need it any time soon.
-Speaking of feel, the key travel feels shallower (softer) and less springy than my Nord. The organ trigger is also very, very high and sensitive, which is nice but will take some getting used to! Piano feels fine on it, better than Nord because it's a bit more loose.
- The extra voices will do. The rhodes(no1), wurly and piano patches are pretty much identical to the pianos I had loaded into the electro, and the hammond clav is better. On the Electro I only had the small "bright grand" loaded in for gigs, and the SK default piano sounds almost exactly similar in my cans. The synth sounds I downloaded from the hammond website are actually pretty good for ROMpler tones and will get me through a function gig if needed - though I don't plan on taking any of those gigs any time soon. I don't actually have the space in my diary.
- I said it above in my last post, but I'm starting to get the joy of real, physical drawbars, especially with multiple sets. I've saved the manual button (basically Nord's live mode) as my default organ, and it's already a cinch getting settings ready for the next song (and changing mid song).
- It looks bloody cool. The band are going to love it.
Still in the honeymoon period and it will be important to see how it fares through a PA, fighting with 8 other band mates and 600+ people in a live mix (I've already realised I'm going to have to adjust some of my drawbar settings for certain songs based on how different to the Nord it sounds) but I'm happy.
No one asked me to review a 4 year old keyboard, but there we go! Will upload some photos and give more thoughts later in the week. Just now I can't tear myself away from it.
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4 hours ago, niacin said:
the Korg Vox Continental scene memories include effects settings (multi fx, delay and reverb, including delay/tremolo tempo/time), but don’t include EQ.
There was some misinformation about this on Korg’s webpage for the 73BK edition when it first came out.
I thought the Vox Continblack DID save EQ settings - that was one of its selling points. I thought that functionality came in an update for the Orange Vox too at the same time. -
Hey funny, he talks through the 'I Keep Forgettin' session in that vid and plays a snippet. That thread we had on it must still be warm...
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Lukather's book made me love him even more. Dude has some stories. The guy is probably one of my favourite guitarists of all time, though he seems to fly under the radar of a lot of my guitarist buddies, which is a damn shame. Watching the Beato vid now.
One thing that made me laugh in the book was how he made it sound like every single person LA is his "good friend". Maybe they are...
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I like it. For my needs the MODX is overkill. The MODX also has crappy organs and little hands on control, and this new thing seems more flexible than the YC.
If it turns out the rotary is the new studio rotary they used on the YC, and they bring out a proper semi-weighted 7X version I can see myself being all over this in a couple of years.
Bluetooth audio, built in speakers, proper audio interface and AD inputs really make it good for home use especially, and for easily integrating Mainstage.
I like it a lot. You’re getting the quality Yamaha sounds and functionality in a Roland sized package. Looking forward to trying one out.
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6 minutes ago, zephonic said:
So I guess there isn’t anything here that the MODX doesn’t do, right?
The MODX doesn’t do organ like the CK.
I think they’ll sell a tonne of these. It’s like a VR-09 on steroids for a similar price. I don’t need the latest and greatest anymore. Hell I’d probably be interested in one if I wasn’t already in the process of getting something new.
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I get why they wouldn’t want the organ as good as the YC. It would cannibalise YC sales. Actually I don’t get it, I’d rather they put the best organ in just to make it good, but I don’t understand economics or marketing. However…
…If they’ve offered a performance keyboard with an organ section featuring drawbars and have not at least included their newest rotary emulation they are out of their damn minds.
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When my second kid was born I packed in the gigs. I got a 9-5 job and after a decade of trying to make music my “main thing”, pushed it to the side. My degree and 80% of my work experience was in music, so it was a bit tough at first.
I made music a hobby rather than a full time pursuit and my enjoyment of it suddenly went up by 300%. I stopped taking gigs because I had to. I stopped taking gigs that didn’t give me life. Once things had settled i started subbing for a band that I’m now a full time member of, and am now more musically fulfilled than I ever have been. We’re still weekend warriors but we’re selling out shows at big venues and have just released an originals album - even though we’re a tribute act. I’m now in a position where I have a wife and kids and a job but I’m in playing a different city every weekend. My musical and creative output has never, ever been this fulfilling or good - and it’s still just a hobby (which happens to provide a decent enough second income to make it worth it for my family). It took years, but we’ve found a way to make it work. It is possible. But it wouldn’t have been possible back when I packed things in. I had to take time off to allow myself and my family to settle before getting back into it.
As others have said, focus on your family first. You may very well find that dropping the music down a notch in your priority list for a season will reawaken your joy for it.
As musicians we balance a lot of plates. It sounds like for now you need to find a lifestyle that works for you and your family. Sometimes that means dropping a plate - in this case serious playing. You can either choose to drop it, or let it fall and smash, which is no fun. Once you have the important plates spinning well, you can then pick up other plates again and began spinning them.
Life comes at us in seasons, and the good thing about seasons is that they come back around again. Taking a step back from musical commitments for a time doesn’t mean it’s forever, or that your efforts thus far have been wasted - you’re just doing things differently for a little while.
Take time off, focus on other things and let your love for the creative be naturally rekindled over time. The last thing you want to do just now is force yourself into things that don’t bring you life.
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They should really switch it to the 145 Close setting as the default. That rotary sounds awful compared to the close setting - which still isn’t perfect.
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Sad news.
Wayne lived to a good old age and left his mark upon millions. We should all be so lucky.
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There are certain tunes I’ll struggle to play standing that I can play sitting. It’s just more comfortable and accurate. However, I stand every gig. I run on the spot, I go ham on my keys, I jump up and down with the rest of the band.
I’d never do that if I was asked to play a worship event. Those things are way different to normal performances and I honestly can’t see how you can compare the two.
I watched Steve Porcaro live in 2019. He looked old and robotic but still looked cooler playing keys than 90% of young people I see today.
My band are good musicians, but the thing that gets us gigs is the show we put on. An over the top stage presence is part of our appeal, and it’s become almost required of anyone subbing in for me now.
Again though; it depends on the gig. I wouldn’t do what I do with my main ska outfit at a wedding. Or in a place of worship. Imo you don’t need “stage presence” at a worship gig. You should be invisible.
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So I tried the SKX out today.
Bottom line is I loved it. Organ is an update from my Electro, piano sounds almost identical to the small sized Bright Grand I use live in my band. Extra voices will do the job, plus more. Set up a foot switch as a make-do pitch bend and quite liked it too. Went quite deep into the menu and tweaked settings and tested out various setups. It’s more than flexible enough for my needs.
Im an utter organ novice but the two sets of drawbars+manuals were revolutionary. Wonderful, tactile experience.
Only thing i did notice was the slight hiss when I played the piano patch through head phones. Not noticeable if the volume is less than 1 o clock though. Main volume knob created a small crackle though that may just be my phones.
it feels great and sounded great to my ears, and I had to drag myself away from it in the end. Think I’m gonna go for it folks…at the end of the day, regardless of what the specs are on paper, it was an instrument I enjoyed playing, and can see doing exactly what I need it to do, plus more.
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A local dealer has offered me a decent trade in deal for a Hammond SKX. For the first time in a long while I'm faced with the prospect of picking up a board that will suit my needs better than anything I currently have, whilst being within my rather limited budget. The SKX is coming up for 5 years old, but I've gigged the Electro 4 for 9 years now and it is, for the most part, still going strong.
Obviously in a perfect world I'd love an SKX Pro, but there's no way I'll have that kind of cash to spend on an instrument any time soon.
I'm going in on Saturday to play it and see if it'll suit me. There's no pressure; I'll just get a chance to play for an hour or 2 to see if I want to take the deal forward next week.
Anything I should be looking out for as I play/inspect it? If I get it this thing will be heavily gigged this year, all over the country and abroad. I'd like more than anything for it to be rock solid and reliable. I've heard about issues with power supplies, memory, hissing, etc. This probably won't be my big purchase of the decade, but it will be a chance for me to get a new gigging board that will offer me more sonic flexibility than I currently have in a friendlier (to me) package, and my first foray into the dual-manual clonewheel game, which is an itch I've been wanting to scratch for a long time.
I've already messaged some folks from this board who have or have had one about their experiences and their thoughts have been very helpful.
Honest opinions about the VASE III engine also appreciated, though I am not interested in hearing comparisons with the latest and greatest, or even potential competitors. There is not another dual-manual, swiss army knife extra-voice board available near me or in my price range. This potential trade-in deal with this particular model is the first realistic (as in I could physically own it next week), budget friendly option I've come across. As far as I'm concerned, it's the SKX vs the Electro 4.
For context my gig is 60/40 organ/piano, with each buried in a loud, busy 8 piece mix. Occasionally I’ll use clav and some sampled instruments. The Hammond SK sound list tells me they have the samples I need. There's only one song in my band's set where piano is exposed, so if piano is the weakest link between them I'm not particularly fussed.
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Sorry to hear this HSS, that sucks and I hope you’re okay.
Tim’s comments are making me think I should enjoy being able to put 100% into gigs while I still can. It’s easy for us all to take a lot for granted.
HHS, I’m sure you’ll be able to rock whatever rig you take out. Wishing you a speedy recovery.
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Will be interesting to see what they bring out. And to see if they use the YC61 keybed for any of the models, especially if it is a YC/AN hybrid. Montage based power with the YC playability/electro mechanical sounds is a dream board for me, more so than the Stage 4.
I still can’t get rid of my MODX7 here in the UK. Hope this doesn’t make it even harder, or force me to drop the price even more!
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Incredible version of BLA above. George Duke was the man, and Mark Stephens too by the sounds of it.
Also...I don't know how I didn't know it was GP who did the "100 Ways" solo. Of course it was.
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Bumping this with a little question. Hopefully it doesn't confuse people with the SKX Pro, but that's on Hammond for the weird naming of their machines.
One of these has cropped up at a budget friendy price as a B-Stock model in a store with decent part exchange rates. The price itself is fairly tempting. The fact that it's a dual-manual all in one makes it even more tempting. I don't need bells and whistles - just something that does the job. 2 extra voices + organ over two manuals definitely exceeds the "does the job" category.One thing that put me off this when it first came out is the lack of pitch bend. HOWEVER:
THIS PAGE HERE talks about a "Glide" function, that allows you to use either a footswitch or expression pedal as a glide/pitch bend effect. That could be very cool - if it works in practice. Anyone here with an SKX able to comment on how effective it is? I don't need pitch bend, but it would be nice to have, even if I have to use my foot.
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I mean if I had the money I'd buy one without hesitating, but I agree, in terms of features it's a bit of a let down. Though Nord have always been about incremental developments, not big world changing shifts. Evolution, never revolution. With that in mind, it's pretty cool. Hardware updates like the LED ladders with physical drawbars are cool, and the 3 synth sections are nice. 1 knob per function is way out of the door now, though.
The memory thing has never really been issue since Nord's samples are stellar with their lossless compression. Those complaints usually come about from computer musicians who think "more GB = better". I still think Nord have the best hardware pianos in the business, and can even give some of those multi GB software samples a run for their money.
No USB/Audio has me at a loss though. Surely a built in audio interface must be standard practice with pro level boards now?
There's nothing here that would make me want this a whole lot more than a Yamaha YC, especially if it's double the price.
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My tribute band wrote an album of originals to keep us sane over COVID and it’s finally finished. Being pressed as we speak, launch is next month.
I’ve been given the tracks back to listen to and while I think the producer (who has worked with some fairly well known bands here in the UK) has done an absolutely stellar job, I’ve noticed that he’s used a couple of takes of mines that were…well, not great.
There’s one song where I do a sort of ethereal descending organ run over a D7 chord. It’s smothered in reverb and delay and pans from left to right. It’s just a little flourish at the end of the vocal line, but I can clearly hear where I hit an absolute clanger mid run- an Ab. It being the tri-tone it’s not exactly subtle to my trained ears, especially over a D7 arpeggio. In some ways it adds to the sound because it makes it sound more ethereal, but to my ears it’s just wrong; an obvious mistake. My wife says it’s hardly noticeable but I’ll always know it’s there.
There are a couple of other tracks I’ve heard where I messed up a chord or two towards the end, and a live track we did where my timing on one little ad libbed part makes me cringe. Again, hardly noticeable but I can hear it.
I’m not actually bothered, and the guy had a 9 piece band to mix with dozens of tracks per song so I’m not surprised it got missed (or went unnoticed).
If anything it’s just nice to have a record that was a result of 8 guys toiling away with live instruments in the studio - no MIDI or piano rolls here!
Anyone had occasions or have examples where their obvious mistakes made it to a finished product?
Demoing an original SKX. Anything I should look out for?
in The Keyboard Corner
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First gig last night with the new axe.
I was right; the band love the looks of it. Drummer and bassist were like “WOOOOAAAH” and gushing over it.
in terms of sound, I hit a couple of chords during soundcheck and the drummer ran through and said he thought someone had brought the real thing into the room. He listened and said it was night and day from
the Nord. That would be Jim A’s tone set. Thanks Jim!
I took a solo in one song and started playing with the drawbars, doing lots of chords rather than straight notes. It cuts through a hell of a lot better than the Nord and let’s me do things that would have previously been drowned in the mix. Singer/band leader kept one of my organ solos going for several rounds (I ran out of things to say and ended it myself) and said straight after “that thing sounds amazing.” He told me in the car after it was his favourite part of the set. Sounds like I’m going to be thrown more organ solos now.
Words the band use: it’s “creamier”, “cuts through better”, “girthier”, “more realistic” and “night and day” above the Nord organ. So they’re pleased with it.
In terms of my own experience, I messed up a couple of times forgetting where I’d put splits, but that was ok. Last night was a crappy warmup gig for our tour which starts next week with a 600 capacity hometown gig. There are a couple of setups I’ll have to fix for next week, and a few things I’ll need to tweak, but all in all I’m a happy man.