pjd

March 16, 2023

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

Yes, it is the organ engine from the Reface YC, not from the YC61, though it does have some enhancements compared to the Reface implementation. I am hoping we'll hear some better demos than we've heard so far, but don't expect YC61 quality organs.

Just by itself? That should be easy, as far as drawbar and rotary controls go. Unfortunately, percussion and CV controls send sysex, so you would need interim MIDI mapping for those controls. Or possibly you could use a knob, since almost all the knobs send CCs, but none of the buttons do (except for rotary).

...

It's really a shame that you have to jump through hoops.

Definitely recycled Reface YC. Reface YC is 100% AWM2 sample-based. Wot? You expected Yamaha's new modeling tech for $1,000? 🙂

Scott, I agree that CK (and Reface YC) allow individual drawbar control of Farfisa, Vox, etc. MODX has a few individual Farf and Vox samples and the rest are combi's. But, hey, combo organ has three basic settings: ear-piercing, wheezy and less wheezy. 😃 Combo organs and nuance?

Scott is doing a public service by deep diving the zone/external control. I don't know how many times I've been burned by idiotic limitations or use of SysEx when it comes to external control. And, of course, it's not just Yamaha. All engineers should be forced to eat their own dog food when it comes to external control!

When buying any MIDI controller, buyer beware! Read the manuals before buying. Do mental experiments. Avoid ill-advised purchases. End of sermon. 🤐

Earlier I said that I could recreate all CK sounds on MODX except the (borrowed from Genos/SX900) pipe organs. Actually, I could sample via SampleRobot and create my own pipe organ voices on MODX. I did create my own using library samples.

Great discussion, thanks -- pj

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/combo-organ-reface-yc/

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/combo-organ-montage-modx-genos/

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/modx-sampling-genos-pipe-organ/

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/modx-get-started-with-sample-robot/

March 15, 2023

Rather than categorize musicians or break them down into market segments, it comes down to the personal needs and budget of each individual. Except for the few folks who have worked in musical instrument marketing or retail, we just down have objective statistics.

Need. Budget. And then there's "good enough."

As to budget, I can relate to the musician who needs to balance off eating, car payments, mortgage/rent, saving for kid's education/whatever, and so forth. I could comfortably buy a YC, but I didn't and won't. I don't want to tie up that much money in gear and the "crap MODX organ" is good enough for our congregation. 🙂

Front panel gizmos and 88 GHS keybed aside, the CK is 100% recycled content. That's not a slag on the CK because the content is Yammie good. However, by deep diving MODX, I can recreate nearly every CK sound using MODX -- and more. So, for me, there is no real need. Learn an instrument in depth and save money.

I'm a cheapster -- pj

P.S. The CK organ presets which I cannot recreate are the pipe organs. (!) Yammie recycled those from Genos and they're darned good.

March 15, 2023

55 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Perhaps we can assist my thought process on this.

Pros/Cons of choosing CK61 over a controller keyboard like Keylab MkII or Nektar Panorama T6?

Pros

1. Onboard sounds when you don't have your laptop/tablet

...

Cons

1. $400 more expensive

2. Less controllers

3. Keys are likely some % of a mm thinner than standard

4. Probably (at least at first) fewer preset mappings for popular VSTs - though I prefer to do it myself in Main Stage either way.

Before buying the CK as a controller, best check the slider/knob/button to CC mapping. (See the MIDI implementation part of the manual.) It appears to be preset/fixed and a little bit baroque. Might not be an issue with MIDI learn in a VST, but YMMV.

-- pj

March 14, 2023

Forgot to mention the most interesting point from the manual.

Check the date on the MIDI implementation chart: 16-July-2021.

Yamaha had this design in the can for a loooooooooong time. COVID and supply chain issues.

-- pj

March 14, 2023

I just updated my CK description page:

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-ck88-unverified-leakage/

And posted a few opinions/observations while reading the manual:

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-ck-random-bits/

Hope to respond to a few comments here later -- pj

P.S. Nice day outside after days of rain in the PNW, and I'm not going to waste it behind a computer. 🙂

March 14, 2023

Product page is up at yamaha.co.jp (Yamaha Japan). Go to the Downloads tab for the CKs and you will find links to the manuals in Japanese and English. Have fun reading. I’m going to bed. 😀

I pwn an MODX and a CT-S1000V. Nothing to see here. Move along. 😀

It’s been a long day — pj

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-ck88-unverified-leakage/

Organs in Voice List are H, V, F, A, Y — exactly Reface YC. I own one of those, too. Good night and have a pleasant tomorrow. 😴

March 13, 2023

I had an Alesis Nanopiano a zillion years ago and liked the little fellow. However, it's gone and I can't compare it against anything contemporary.

I have and use a V3 Sound Yammex module. It has the same sound content as the V-shaped Grand Piano XXL, but the bank/program numbers are different. There must also be firmware differences, too, because the Yammex doesn't seem to respond to MIDI messages to change the DSP effects.

That said, the sound quality is quite good. I bought mine used and I'm glad that I didn't pay full freight given the MIDI issues. Wish there was an update...

-- pj

March 13, 2023

4 hours ago, CyberGene said:

As we already discussed: these are most probably the replacement for the MX-keyboards. Something like a MODX "light": same engine, all the sounds and presets but no deep editing, probably no touch screen either. Easier to make splits and layers, considering the MODX requires a PHD. And of course no AN-X, or Montage/MODX users would feel screwed otherwise. Basically a nice lightweight, portable rompler with all the latest sounds. I'm not even sure it will include the FM-X engine. Or maybe a lesser one as in the reface DX, a 4-operator engine.

Got to agree. I just posted some new fodder:

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/ck-its-almost-here/

I worked back from the rumored price points (which, I suspect, are MSRP). Short story: MX is toast. Long live CK! If somebody needs an inexpensive "top" or "bottom" for their YCxx or CPxx, CK is it.

With respect to "C", the MX doesn't have as many front panel widgets needed to compete with full-size MIDI controllers. So, Yamaha maybe added some more gizmos for people who want to control VIs, especially tablet/phone-based VIs. I'm guessing, but "portable" may mean the addition of battery powered. Battery powered means "not compute intensive" tone generation/effects.

The price point is danged low and it affects the internal engineering/design.

Aw, heck. We'll know more tomorrow. (I hope.)

-- pj

March 10, 2023

If you need a quick solution and have a Raspberry Pi:

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/send-midi-from-usb-b-to-5-pin/

I picked up a DoReMIDI UMH-20 and it seems to be working good. I don't think I could build one for its selling price!

Scott is correct. USB started out as an addressable peripheral bus and the functional asymmetry is intentional, HOST vs. DEVICE. The problem with USB for MIDI is replacing a symmetric 5-conductor cable/connector with a physical and electrically asymmetry link. USB-C and MIDI 2.0 may finally alleviate that problem.

All the best -- pj

March 10, 2023

I love these kinds of projects. Good luck!

Even though the mainboard is small, Yamaha doesn't leave much extra space. I thought the PSS-A50 had gobs of space, in comparison. Then reality crashed in. 🙂

I wonder if it's possible to make a strip of plastic that sits between the top and bottom tray -- kind of a filler. The end result would be "tall" Reface with the same desktop footprint. That kind of mod would open a lot of interior space.

Just a wild idea -- pj

March 10, 2023

I agree with Al, getting started can be large learning curve. I read through the basic manual and Bruce Wahler's user guide. It didn't start to make sense until I loaded the MIDI Solutions editor and created a few settings.

Don't know if you'll need the capability, up to two specific byte values can be stored in variables (XX and YY) or sent along in a CC message.

It's a lot to sort through when making a decision to buy. I'm glad I bought an EPP.

Hope this helps -- pj

March 9, 2023

Can’t find the thread at Yamaha Synth anymore. Too close to home?

— pj

February 22, 2023

Sorry if I sound cranky. I grouched at some innocent soul on a different forum. Some aspects of this discussion are getting on my elderly nerves.

Ah, yes, the "second coming." Didn't we go through this hysteria last summer with MODX -> MODX+? Unabated anticipation followed by complaining 5 minutes after the drop. 🙂

Please consider the historical progression through MOTIF: MOTIF begat ES begat XS begat XF. Each revision added some voices/performances and some additional workflow functionality. The MOs trailed behind the current MOTIF rev. Readers here are knowledgeable and know the gory details.

MODX+ established a little too much parity with Montage. Thus, I expect Yamaha to create just enough functional distance above MODX+ to justify the higher price of "new Montage". Montage already has a tour-quality build, FSX keybed (aftertouch), more capable audio streaming/processing, built-in power supply, pure analog circuit, balanced TRS and so forth.

I expect Yamaha to revert to its mean, AKA incremental evolution consistent with its historical practice. Addition of MIDI 2.0 is the only detail that I'm willing to predict. Yamaha is due WRT MIDI 2.0 and Montage is intended to be a studio's centerpiece that integrates with everything.

"CK" is another matter...

Peace to all -- pj 🙂

February 10, 2023

29 minutes ago, Anderton said:

It's All About the Cable...

Here are the factors that cause connection problems:

Amen! I run into all of these problems even when I'm 100% non-Casio. 😀 Combined with occasional asymmetry issues (A when I need B), I pine for the simplicity, symmetry and reliability of good ole 5-pin. Just had to re-plug everything into my iPad because sometimes it's all recognized, sometimes it's not.

And, yes, I keep my working notes in good ole ASCII. 😁

Have a super weekend (literally) -- pj

February 7, 2023

17 hours ago, EscapeRocks said:

I thought that was the best part of the show.

Stevie Wonder

Greg Phillinganes

Smokey Robinson

Count me in! No seizure inducing lights, nobody sticking their booty into the camera lens.

They. Just. Freakin'. Played.

And ripped it up. Glad to see Nile get a nod and the mic by default. Man is a funk metronome.

Only question mark -- No mention of the recently departed Barrett Strong Jr. at the Motown love-in?

All the best -- pj

February 4, 2023

Definitely Roli Lightpad blocks. Roli still sells them. I’m trying to work one into my iPad set-up.

— pj

January 26, 2023

Probably don't get too many field reports like this one...

My colleague (pianist and partner in crime) borrowed my CT-S1000V. His daughter (about age 10 or so) needed to accompany two other youngsters on violin and the school piano is shot.

Well, I got her set up here at home to make things smoother at their mini-recital. She noticed the difference in the action right away and said, "Oh." She probably plays Dad's Yamaha Silent Grand at home...

We left her playing while her dad and I checked out my studio. When we returned, she was already deep into the voice synthesis and was over the moon with enthusiasm. Kids and buttons. 😃 Good thing I backed everything up.

Anyway, the recital went fine. As I expected tho', she pretty much bagged shedding the accompaniment and spent most of her time exploring the CT. Their family may buy one, so it's still on loan while they wring it out.

It was uplifting to see her enthusiasm. Makes me miss teaching.

All the best -- pj

January 16, 2023

Cool, Live, Sweet, etc.

Looking for precision in marketing-speak is like looking for love in all the wrong places. 😉 More than a little puffery, here.

Always thought "Cool" meant "velocity switched." Certainly true of PSR Cool! electric pianos. Another term that got abused in voice names: "Dynamic." A few "dynamic" voices appeared in entry-level arranger keyboards. The "dynamic" voices were also velocity switched. So-called "regular" voices did not employ velocity switching.

With evolution, a lot of these distinctions got fuzzy.

Hope this helps -- pj

January 16, 2023

7 minutes ago, Anderton said:

Your post is a great public service. Thanks!

Thanks, Craig!

Hopefully, this old dog (me) can learn some new tricks. ☺️ The CT-S1000V is a keeper.

-- pj

January 16, 2023

Hi --

I've been using the CT-S1000V for about one year, so a retrospective might be in order.

My main gig is church services. The repertoire is contemporary liturgical music with a little gospel and trad sacred music thrown in.

In preparation, I pulled together about 16 or so combi's. I rarely use a single voice alone preferring a woodwind section over a solo oboe, for example. This generally hides the imperfections of a lot of solo voices, especially on an entry-level keyboard. (I once owned and played a Yamaha PSR-E443.) I use this approach on Yamaha MODX, too. In all cases, I dial down reverb since the church hall is reverberant.

The combinations were good enough to use the CT in church. Normally, the MODX is my gig instrument. When I went back to MODX, again, I realized the difference in quality level and MODX is my gig instrument once more, using the CT for rehearsals. The CT is so light and compact that I can swoop into rehearsal, set up and go. Not so easy (or light) with the MODX.

As to rear panel markings, I have trouble reading ALL keyboards. So, both the CT and MODX have vinyl press-on letters right above the critical connections that I have to make. We have only a few minutes for set-up before a service and I don't have time for horsing around; it's plug and go.

I agree with comments WRT switching organ rotary speaker speed. There ought to be a way to switch speed via foot pedal. Turning a knob to change speed is not a natural gesture for me although one can keep the knob near its center where not much motion is needed right or left.

As to the use of the rotary DSP effect, Yamaha PSR voices and use of DSP effects are similar. These instruments evolved from no DSP effects to rotary sim (and other DSP effects). Older voices have the rotary "sampled-in" and remain in the sound set for backward compatibility. [I see Mike typing...]

I like the CT's keybed and prefer it over the MODX. (!) Yamaha need to pay more attention to keybed characteristics and quality of their entry- and mid-range products.

Hope these few comments helps -- pj

January 16, 2023

Hi folks --

Glad to see a review thread for the Casio CT-S1000V. I posted several articles on my blog site and have collected the links:

I also took a brief look into the speech synthesis technology behind the Casio and did a few initial experiments:

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/casio-speech-synthesis-technology/
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/casio-singing-synthesis-in-pictures/
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/casio-lyric-creator-first-experience/
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/casio-lyric-creator-pronunciation/

Hope these links help anyone reading this thread.

All the best -- pj

January 10, 2023

4 hours ago, GovernorSilver said:

Do you plan to run the software editor onstage, along with the Osmose? 😉

There are risks involved in investing in any first-generation product, including this one. There could be manufacturing defects, software defects, etc. I was aware of the risks when I put in my preorder in 2019.

Can't wait for a drunk to spill beer into one... 😄 Thank goodness I don't play bars anymore.

Totally agree with all points. The more I delve into MPE products, the more I realize the "boutique" nature of this market segment.

I had a friend -- a successful software guy -- start a business that ventured into hardware. He was honest enough to admit how naive he was and how many different ways a hardware product can sink a business. A team can build a working prototype, but its the "mundane" stuff like supply chain, inventory, manufacturing, QA, warranty, returns, service/repair that can kill you.

Hey, hey, I certainly wish you and early adopters the best.

-- pj

January 10, 2023

10 minutes ago, GovernorSilver said:

As noted above, he did not notice there is a locking power barrel connector, let alone lock the thing so that power doesn't cut out on him. Perhaps he was in a rush to make his video.

Yep, I did catch that. By "connection issues," I meant "software editor to firmware" connection issues. Tim did seem concerned about that, given that it's early days.

January 10, 2023

ROLI's business problems forced a major retrenchment and they slimmed down product offerings. ROLI advertise three hardware products: Lightpad, Lumi Keys, and Seaboard Rise 2. The Lightpad appears to be the only BLOCK retained from the original product line.

I just bought a used Lightpad and I'm waiting delivery. (The package is taking a tour of western USA. 🙂 ) I'm hoping to use it to augment a standard MIDI controller with some modicum of touch. The Lumi Keys look attractive, but I'm trying to live within a budget and cheap out. 🤑

Has the Lumi Keys been reliable for ya?

Take care -- pj

January 10, 2023

I like the video by Tim Shoebridge; it should be essential viewing before one shells out $1800USB (or whatever).

Red flags to me are beta-quality software, connection issues, robustness of the keybed. Nice observations all around. I would really like to use Osmose at a gig, not a studio queen.

It also sounds like the Osmose and its software will be a bit of a closed system (i.e., not a GP MPE controller). I tried playing SWAM Flute on KMI QuNexus and quickly discovered that one cannot just plug-and-play. If parameters/senstivies aren't carefully dialed in, the controller+synth combo is unplayable. ROLI's Equator (presets) are fine-tuned for Seaboard and same will be true for Osmose.

-- pj

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/review-kmi-qunexus/

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