pjd
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Posts posted by pjd
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Gonna replace my Reface YC with this. I've squeezed a lot of value out of the Reface, but its three octave keyboard and crap rotary fast setting have got to go.
I use the Reface YC mainly for quick in, quick out rehearsals.
Watching that price and availability date carefully -- pj
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2 hours ago, Keyboardplayer said:
Yamaha Montage M Specifications Leaked...
You can read all about it here: https://yamahamusicians.com/yamaha-montage-m-specifications-and-pricing/
I'm taking all of this with a big grain of salt. Some of the numbers don't add up for me, among other observations.
We'll know all the facts soon enough. The first thing I look at is the list of waveforms to see what is actually new on the AWM2 side.
Silly me -- pj
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Nope, I don't think you're wrong. It is weird.
That means the -145 will work with the new FC35 portable three pedal unit and the -143 will not.
Yamaha? Logic? 🤪
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Thanks for posting those pictures comparing actions. I was just about to chase after that info!
I missed one significant upgrade last night. Yamaha redesigned the speaker box and are now using a digital FIR crossover filter. I've been playing through a Stagepas 100BTR with an FIR filter -- good sound. (I need to review that little thing...)
I updated my initial blog post (link above) after reading through the manual.
BTW, I'm seriously shopping for a home DP and P-525 is on my short list. $2,000 street for slab, stand, bench and pedal unit is decent value. My interest is not academic. 😃
All the best -- pj
Music technology blog: sandsoftwaresound.net
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Yamaha announced a successor to the P-515 -- the new P-525:
https://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical_instruments/pianos/p_series/p-525/index.html
USA MAP is $1,600 and it is popping up on retailer sites for pre-order.
A few initial thoughts, including the 515 vs. 525 differences that I could spot (before going to bed 😀):
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-p-525-digital-piano-announced/
The biggie is GrandTouch-S (wood) action instead of NWX.
-- pj
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2 hours ago, AnotherScott said:
Anyway, the point is, regardless of how little or how much the sounds overlap, it's really the functionality and operation that distinguishes these boards, such that I suspect any given user would find one much more suited to their needs than the other.
I agree.
My main point, however, is that the CK -- and even the Stage CP/YC "extra" voices -- are on-par with middling arranger series voices at best. I don't know how or even why Yamaha chooses to put less-than-premium voices on relatively expensive 'boards. With CK, at least, you get what you pay for it.
This is one reason why I can't bring myself to buy a CLP-series Clavinova for home. The secondary ("extra") voices are crap and the CLP instruments are waaaay more expensive than the Stage YC/CP in comparison. [Edit: That's why the P-515 is a genuine bargain, IMHO. 😉]
Sorry, the quality gap between the featured voices and secondary voices in Yamaha keyboards is one of my hot-button issues. The hardware platforms are ALL capable of better.
-- pj
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13 minutes ago, CyberGene said:
I’ve been researching the CK for a while but to me it also seems the sounds are a bit lukewarm and not up to the same quality as the ones in the CP/YC series. It’s possible that they are lite versions (less memory for AWM samples?) of the same patches.
In any case the CK is a tempting option for live playing, especially for the price and all the features.
After reading through the CK voice list and having played CK, I think they are recycling voices from the arranger series keyboards. Having Genos at hand (and played a mid-range S950 early on), I don't think these are the better (or best) voices in the arranger line. If someone is considering a CK61 in particular, you might want to try or compare with an SX700. The PSR-SX700 has the so-called "Organ Flutes" drawbar organ -- which is probably the same tech ripped off for the Reface YC and CK. Just sayin'.
I like the CK at its price point, but there are alternatives.
All the best to ya -- pj
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18 hours ago, Paul Woodward said:
Slightly off topic, but has it ever been made known how much sample memory is in the CK, or the YC?
I ask because it's claimed they share the same AWM2 sounds for everything but the organs (VCM on YC), yet the sounds are much less 'rich' to my ears.
I've been meaning to deep dive the Stage YC for a while, but there always seems to be something higher priority... 😀
The Stage YC has two Yamaha processors: SWX09 and SWP70. The SWP70 has the waveform memory: 2Gbyte total ONFI-compatible NAND flash. I suspect that the SWX09 is doing the heavy lifting vis a vis drawbars and/or rotary speaker -- just guess work. Yamaha doesn't tell me anything.
Given the CK price points, I expect to see only an SWX09 with waveform memory. If anyone cracks open their CK, please take pictures such that the IC markings are readable -- none of that fuzzy, jerky video crap on Youtube. 🙃
Yamaha have swung conservative WRT policy on service manuals and I don't feel like dancing with them right now. 😒
As to CP88 internals, your guess is as good as mine. The Clavinova CLPs have only an SWX09. CP88 doesn't do FM, so no need for SWP70. That (and other reasons) is why I think Stage CP is due for Mark 2 based on a new platform.
As to CK updates. Maybe to fix a critical bug? Vendors have no profit motive to update $1,000 keyboards. Good will, yes; money, no.
All the best! My 88 shopping goes on and on -- pj
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Yamaha have issued the following statement regarding their participation at Synthfest UK 2023 this weekend:
"Yamaha are looking forward to joining SynthFest UK this weekend to display a wide range of hands-on products along with Yamaha specialist staff to support any enquiries.We will be exhibiting our recent releases including the CK Stage Keyboard Series and Finger Drum Pads, in addition to our more established MODX+, CP, YC and Reface ranges.
There has been much speculation regarding the launch of our successor to the flagship Montage synth which has been announced as an October release. To manage any expectations ahead of the show, we would like to clarify that unfortunately the timing of this new release means that it will not be featured at the show.
We look forward to seeing you all there."
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At 8 pounds, if it’s better than a Reface YC, I’m very intrigued. (Hey, where’s Poppy?) I’ll give it a serious listen on Monday. (Tomorrow is gig, God and football.
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Someone at Hammond needs to hire an English language tech writer, stat! The manual reads like the output of Google translate. It’s bad, Hammond, it’s very bad. Get on the stick, please!
— pj
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My mom had him on the TV every day when I was a little tike. "He's Polish you know." 🤩 That's how we got the "pie - anna" in the house.
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"Motorized faders" -- Just felt like saying that.
I think Jerryk is generally right on with his remark. Hardly anybody in marketing/engineering sits around like Dr. Evil plotting to take your money away. 🙂 Jeez, most of these damned meetings are boring as hell. 😬 Glad to be retired. 😌
Not musical instruments, but we had periodic meetings to discuss "what is and what isn't", the features to be included and excluded in a given release . Nobody has the staff to do everything. Yeah, Yamaha is relatively large, but they are still finite. The trick is scheduling feature release against available staff (both development and QA). With hardware, you get a raft of additional problems which software development teams don't face (e.g., tooling, scheduling product mix, etc., etc.) It's no wonder that progress is incremental -- nobody has the resources to have a revolution every few years.
The only place where a customer might get shortchanged is feature tiering -- how to differentiate product tiers in a family. Montage (gen 1) vs. MODX (gen 1) no doubt had this kind of internal discussion. MODX was a damned good value.
Just random thoughts while I caffeinate -- pj
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7 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:
I wonder if they’ve implemented the midi 2.0 spec deeply throughout this new Montage.
A good chance. Some vendor jumped the gun and spilled the new features in Cubase 13. MIDI 2.0 is included.
-- pj
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17 hours ago, CHarrell said:
It's an interesting theory, and has a ring of plausibility to it, though.
I'm very interested to see if Yamaha treats the YC as the CP v2 (which is what it feels like in a lot of ways, though in some ways it also feels like CP is YC 0.5 if you get the distinction), or if they'd actually make a CP sequel that carries on more of CP88's explicit DNA and adds highly requested features such as a more sophisticated piano engine.
Yeah, some times I don't trust/believe my own B.S. 😀
Good thoughts about the future. Yamaha needs to differentiate Montage M, MODX+, Stage CP and Stage YC. It'll be interesting to see how they do it. Some of that Clavinova stuff (VRM, Grand Expression and so forth) could trickle into the Stage CP, but I think it'll take a gen 2 hardware platform. VRM needs heavy-weight DSP and I doubt if the CP88 designers foresaw that in 2017/2018.
All the best -- pj
NAMM 2024 January 25 to 28!
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Since I don't own a CP88, nor have I programmed one, I don't fully understand the Voice Select Switch number. Might as well throw Tables M, N and O into my confusion, too.
However -- great leap, here -- it seems like the Voice Select Switch values MAX'ed out at 127 after the v1.5 update. Does this imply that the CP88 is built out (complete)?
The CP88 is getting old enough to warrant a refresh or revision (Gen 2). Yamaha would want to apply their experience with Stage YC to CP Gen 2.
This is all guesswork and roughly zero real evidence. 🙂
I would definitely be interested in a CP Gen 2 for the home studio -- pj
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18 hours ago, mrk7421 said:
Thanks to the person who said I could go to the owner's manual and adjust touch sensitivity sensitivity parameters on the p225. One just showed up near me so I will go for another spin tomorrow. Does it's sample have anything to do with previous CFX samples....P515 , CP4 etc. or is this something else?
De nada. BTW, I couldn't find anything like a 3-band EQ. There are things called "Wall EQ" (Ref manual, page 32) and "Sound Boost" (Ref manual, page 29) which effect equalization. Might want to look up those particular three-finger button/key combinations before trying the 225.
As to CFX samples, I would bet they are recycled from some other product. I wouldn't expect champagne quality at a beer-budget price. 😀 If you can stretch to a P-515, you'll be better off. Or maybe wait for the P-525 which is right around the corner. P-515 has the full VRM vs. the 225's VRM Lite, and the NWX action generally draws good marks from players.
Hope this helps -- pj
Music tech blog: sandsoftwaresound.net
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On 9/1/2023 at 5:59 PM, Mighty Motif Max said:
Yep. Just played a P-225 at Guitar Center, right next to a P-45. Unbelievably, the P-45 won by a large margin, which is really unfortunate. A few things I noticed about the P-225...
First, I didn't interpret the keybed as springy per se, but it's definitely on the fatiguing side and isn't the greatest for refined dynamic control. It has a resistance but it's a sluggish heavy-feeling resistance, whereas I think of a springy resistance as having a quick rebound.
Second, whatever Yamaha did with the onboard speakers is really bad IMO - it sounds like a toy with no low mids or lower end, and given that I was able to play the much older P-45 next to it, I can say that it's significantly worse than the older Yamaha boards in that regard. It's honestly embarrassingly bad.
Thanks for the report. At first, I though it was just me. I had a pretty strong reaction, too. I don't like trashing my hands.
I agree that "spring-y" is not the best word choice. Maybe, "sponge-y"? I could not play with any fluidity or grace.
Makes me wonder, do real people test these Yamaha products? Yamaha is such a bloomin' secretive company that I could just image them keeping the GHC in a lab and then, "Voila!", public release. Surely, they know they are in the ergonomics business?!
Thanks, again -- pj
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1 hour ago, CHarrell said:
Thanks for the report. I really hope you get to try the CP, it's a heavier action but it's also really smooth and the sounds play so well with the keybed.
You're welcome and thanks for the tip. I hope to try the CP88 and the new Montage M8X before making a decision. Right now, the P-515 is the front-runner and it looks like a P-525 will be announced sometime this Fall (maybe, I hope).
The word "smooth" got me thinking. I couldn't play the GHC with much fluidity and everything felt/sounded choppy. OK for Little Richard, but we ain't doin' Little Richard at the church. 😀
Have a good holiday weekend -- pj
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8 hours ago, mrk7421 said:
Is there an easily accessible touch sensitivity function on the P225? How about brightness control? Out of the box the 225 resembles a Baldwin Acrosonic spinet more than it does a real CFX acoustic. Let's hear about some adjustability of this. And whatever happened to 5 pin midi????
P-225 Owner's Manual, page 20
The P-225 uses the keys to set parameters, e.g., Hold down PIANO and hit C6. The manuals have a bunch of charts:
Might want to give the Smart Pianist app a try, too. Yamaha advertise Smart Pianist support for the P-225 and you may be able to access more parameters through the app.
Hope this helps -- pj
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Just played the P-225 for about an hour or so. I played through this week's music for the church gig.
Bottom-line, not for me. The GHC action has a springy resistance that tired my hands in a very short time. Even the GC manager (a keyboard player) was surprised at the springy-ness. More at:
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-p-225-review-its-not-for-me/
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Seek and ye shall find...
Import from Japan to India:
K00025268 FINGER DRUM PAD FGDP-30 //Y PROTO $402 - CHINA - 1PCS
K00025264 FINGER DRUM PAD FGDP-50 //Y PROTO #402 - CHINA - 1PCS
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The interlocking rectangle design matches a registered Yamaha trademark:
https://euipo.europa.eu/eSearch/#details/trademarks/018843051
Four letters are associated with the mark: "FGDP". The trademark is registered in the EU and is number 018843051.
Yamaha just spent a bunch of effort scrubbing certain names from its web sites: GENOS2, Montage M6, Montage M7, Montage M8X, P-525 and -- wait for it -- FGDP-30 and FGDP-50.
Maybe this is a Europe-only release? I can't find an equivalent USA trademark...
Once again, Yamaha only wants us to get excited when its controlling management commands us to be excited. 🤐
-- pj
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1 hour ago, JoJoB3 said:
Just played the P-515 last Friday.
Consensus: Loved the ac pianos (nearly all) and the keybed and feel. All other sounds onboard were VERY underwhelming however. I was kind of shocked at this (and I'm a Yammy fan to a degree).
Don't recall seeing 5-pin midi (saw usb).
Is this new model comparable to the 515 to any degree?Great minds think alike. 😀 I came to a similar conclusion about the P-515: http://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-p-515-i-played-one/
I'd like to play the P-225, but spec-wise, it's not up to the P-515. The new GHC (Graded-Hammer Compact) action is a complete unknown. The P-515 has the Natural Wood GH with escapement (X) and the Bösendorfer. The P-515 has 5-pin MIDI IN/OUT according to the manual; I didn't go looking for it in the store.
BTW, I'm seeing signs in the tea leaves of a P-525. I don't expect it to be much of a bump beyond the 515.
I totally agree about the 515 lacking decent secondary sounds. Why does Yamaha still sling these 1990's sounds? That's why I'm looking to CP88 or even the new Montage M8X. I loves that NWX keybed! 😄
-- pj
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-p-525-on-the-way/
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2 hours ago, CHarrell said:
Nice to see another Western WA peep here!
Cheers! Spent most of the day dealing with a flat tire. Thank goodness for Les Schwab!
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Rumors: Yamaha Montage successor
in The Keyboard Corner
Posted
Good to hear. 😃 I still get crazy work dreams. I'm on a strange campus, I have to teach a class in 10 minutes, no PPT deck and I don't know where the classroom is...