CyberGene

How good is the YC61 keyboard for piano playing and Rhodes? I have a MODX6 and find it pretty good (when you take in mind I'm a piano-elitist and hate every digital piano action and can only accept real grand-piano actions as in my AvantGrand N1X 😀). I mean, since I didn't buy the MODX6 for piano playing, I had low expectations and it positively surprised me that I can actually play pianos on it and they sound much more controlled than what I imagined was possible from a synth action. But the YC61 is targeted at Hammond organ and maybe it's not that good for acoustic and electric piano patches? And then, how "worse" is it for piano patches compared to a CP73? Compared to a CP88?

This type of BS is pretty typical for the niche audiophile market where they basically sell snake oil with pseudoscientific claims like that. But a big corporation like Sony to bring that nonsense for something like Walkman is beyond ridiculous.

Well, I think repurposing the AWM2 engine for acting like a VA is basically the same thing if we ignore stuff like PWM, filter FM, etc. I mean, a Minimoog type of VA isn't very different than just having a few sample-based oscillators whose pitch is being modulated by a LFO or envelope, and a filter that is being modulated by the same. So, yeah, I think what you propose could be the same. I think there's already a Minimoog lead in the synth lead patches, so just adding a few more controls to that AWM program through the drawbars when the organ is unused, would suffice to be called "VA-lite" functionality. If someone at Yamaha cares to approve my account on the Ideascale some bright day this month (or whenever they decide to do so), I will certainly upvote your idea 👍🏻 I can't even read it right now. Sometimes I hate Yamaha as much as I love them...

Yes, I'm thinking the same, I have the MODX6 and sold a Studiologic SL73 to replace with a CP73 that I'm about to purchase but this new update made me want the YC73 instead. The problem is it's the only model in the entire CP/YC range that will not be available on Thomann in the foreseeable future (12 weeks of lead time is given).

Well, if it's a phone, it can also be a laptop. And if it's a laptop, then the board can be just a MIDI controller. I've seen Yamaha being very active adding features and sounds to the MODX, CP and YC which is fantastic, they listened to their users and they haven't abandoned their products. Also, it means they have designed those products to be platforms, not just final products to move on with the next one. These instruments are apparently designed to be extensible and maintainable in the long term, i.e. these great firmware updates are not some bug-fixes but are rather additional features, so I find it natural that we use these updates as justification to suggest even more great features and additions. If they don't find those ideas good, then they just won't implement it. I've never understood why some people are opposed to other users' suggestions. It's as though you yourself will get hurt in some way. Or you think Yamaha are adding those new features out of some extraordinary good will and would call us ungrateful if we suggest more features. Really can't get it...

I just registered to propose them my idea about a basic VA mono-synth functionality, if not already proposed. Waiting for an approval though, can't even see the existing ideas until approved 😕

The more I look at the drawbar section of the YC, the more I think it can perfectly be reused for emulating a Minimoog, not exactly but closely: Assume we have two oscillators. We will have a few different models, e.g. one with two saw waves, one with a saw and a pulse, etc. Then for the 9 sliders: 1. Osc 2 level (no need for separate osc1 level) 2. Osc2 detune 3. Portamento time 4. Filter cutoff 5. Filter resonance 6. Attack 7. Decay 8. Sustain 9. Env amount Envelope will be shared between filter and amp. The vibrato/chorus section will become LFO, the various LED combinations will become fixed LFO rates. LFO amount will be linked to the modulation-stick. The on/off button will switch between triangle and square LFO shape. The percussion section buttons can be used for stuff like: - OSC 2 octave: +1, -1, -2 - LFO mod: osc pitch, filter, both - Keyboard tracking: 1/3, 2/3, full - Reuse decay for release: on/off

If they add the newest piano samples from the CP (felt piano, Hamburg, Bosendorfer), I'll be much tempted in a YC73/88 which will then become a very viable Nord Stage alternative now with the added FM-synth-like functionality. I'm wondering if they can also add a basic virtual-analog-lilke mono-synth functionality too. Like, assign a single saw and pulse osc mix to two of the sliders, assign basic EG, filter, portamento, detune to the rest of the sliders. Maybe add a few of those types of patches that will differ in the types of oscillators, the octave difference between them, etc.

How is that better at streaming Apple Music, Spotify, etc. than the iPhone/Android you already have in your pocket?

A German Hydrasynth?

If it was a purely acoustic instrument such as a piano where you can’t cheat and how it sounds is how it sounds, then the high price would be warranted. But it’s a Rhodes after all, a wonderful keyboard instrument indeed, but it’s about electronics, amps, effects and speakers to make it sounding like a Rhodes. In an era where every stage piano, workstation and VST can offer you the full variety of the Rhodes history, I find it ridiculous to pay as much as they ask for, except for prestige. Each to their own.

Thanks, I was stuck between this and a CP73 but you kind of solved my dilemma 👍🏻

The Hydrasynth can do all of them. I love it.

Oh yes, don't forget to include headache of making all the sounds easily available and playable, plus a mixer and a whole lot of cables, power supplies, and an extra shelf to store it all... There's no right and wrong and it depends on the personal preferences. Yes, it's a bit of a headache to have to connect multiple keyboards, mix them and stuff. OTOH, it's much easier for me to have one hammer-action keyboard which has piano and Rhodes switchable, one synth with strings, pads (organs) switchable and one small mini-key keyboard with various mono-leads switchable, rather than having to remember what multi/combo/performance had what exact combination of those three categories, where's the split point, etc. Mind you, I've always been bad with memory and quick thinking ð But having three separate keyboards, each with 5-6 basic sounds that I select from directly, makes it much easier to me, rather than having to program and remember the hundreds of possible combinations when using a single workstation for all of those.

I"ve never been impressed with Nord Piano, Nord Stage and Nord Electro HP when used with piano samples. Something is severely lacking in terms of touch to sound connection and changing velocity curves doesn"t help. I"m not sure the guys are really into acoustic pianos and know how to recreate one well, which has not been their goal anyway. And I doubt with using a regular Kawai digital piano action they would suddenly improve upon that considerably. That being said, I appreciate the appeal of their instruments as gigging boards for live music since their immediacy and ease of use is unparalleled so far.

Indeed, there are now B-stock models at Thomann just a week after they became available and have had arrived at the first customer. This is worrying.

I"ve been researching the YC61 and found the following video that has awesome sounds unlike any other demo I"ve seen. Maybe it"s a creative use of the effects along with the FM-organ synth (it"s like an additive stuff as far as I understand) but it shows how advanced and lush this board can be. It would also apply to YC88. You may need to scroll a bit to find the more esoteric sounds but even the basic piano and Rhodes demos are good.

I owned a MP6 and it was excellent stage piano although not lightweight. I still have my old ES7 (not in my house though) and I love its light and nimble action for non-classical work. However I still think RH-equipped Kawai pianos are rather heavy as total weight. The ES920 is listed as 17kg. I'm after 11kg boards. Wondering how the Medeli actions such as in the Kurzweil PC4 compare to the rest in terms of feel.

I'm wondering if it is inevitable for such a lightweight action (in terms of total weight) to have heavy feeling keys. I mean if it comes from the design. Because the TP100 family of actions seems to be used in keyboards that are not explicitly targeted at hardcore acoustic piano aficionados but are mostly used in multi-purpose keyboards with pianos, Rhodes, organ and synths (Nord Electro for example) and most player would agree that a hammer-action with as light feeling keys as possible is desirable.

Exactly what I've described a few posts earlier, which I described as "high back-pressure pushing against my fingers all the time". I'm not a native English speaker but it's apparent we describe exactly the same issue. If TP110 is at least a partial improvement upon that, then I will be interested in a Numa X 73/88.

This is why I continue to often gig with an old Casio 88. The ones that pre-date the PX-130/PX-330 which introduced the triple sensor but became more sluggish feeling. The later ones got better than those, but still never as good as the earlier ones, IMO. I used to have a Casio CDP-100 (if I'm not mistaken about the exact model) which at the time was not only the cheapest possible digital piano with hammer action but also the lightest one (as total board weight). And yes, I remember having it for a while together with my RD-700SX (whose action IMO had the perfect weighted feel for all type of sounds between pianos, Rhodes and synths but the entire board was ridiculously heavy) and the action in that cheap Casio was not very different feeling than the Roland. The sounds were total cr*p though but they worked for non-pretentious gigs and later on I switched to VST-s.

I"ve never tried a Kurzweil (Medeli sourced) action but they sound like another alternative for creating a very lightweight board. GHS and PHA-4S are also worth mentioning. In the last few weeks I"ve been considering Numa X Piano 73, RD88, CP73 and PC4 but I"ve only tried the CP73 (and liked it), others are not available for testing where I live. My main consideration is double-light, meaning a lightweight board with very light feeling (but still hammer) action. I"ll wait for more reviews of the Numa.

I had a SL73 with the TP100 action and that action was so heavy to play I couldn't get used to it and sold it. It was heavy, sluggish and with a very high back-pressure pushing against my fingers all the time. It was very difficult to play piano and Rhodes stuff on it. The keys felt much heavier and sluggish compared to the grand piano action in my N1X for example and that action isn't known to be very light either. I almost ordered the Numa Piano X 73 a few weeks ago but I was worried the TP110 wouldn't be an improvement, so I put the order on hold. I'd be interested if there has been any improvement though. I asked Studiologic on their Facebook page but they didn't answer and I'm not sure whether they don't want to answer (because nothing changed in terms of weight distribution) or just don't bother replying on Facebook, although they seem to reply to other people.

A Hydrasynth is better. At 1/100 the price ð

I lost interest in those analog synths when I bought Diva and Repro. Yeah, yeah, real knobs and some elusive real warm analog sound, not some cheap VST, whatever ð