CyberGene

Here’s a short video I made to demonstrate the high-trigger that is around halfway through the key travel (or maybe slightly further towards the bottom). And a very short demo of the slow/fast Leslie in the 1.20. P.S. recorded on my iPhone through the USB cable for digital audio. There are some occasional pops though although I put the iPhone in flight mode… I have to check why that is. I’m having the same problems when recording my Yamaha N1X. It used to be glitch-free in the past. Maybe an iOS bug.

Just tested it. The organ is triggered exactly at halfway through the key travel. That is already high trigger, because that’s where the first switch is placed. The second is at the bottom. It’s a standard placement for all non-organ sounds since the key-off event should be generated halfway through the key travel on its way back when released. Long story short, nothing can be done, that’s the highest trigger possible with that keyboard.

I think they use it already for high trigger but I have to check it again to be sure, I’m not in front of the YC. I mean the sound starts before bottom. It’s just the trigger isn’t high enough.

If the keyboard doesn’t have proper switch placement high in its travel, it won’t be possible to implement higher trigger through a software change and I believe it currently triggers before bottom, meaning it already has high trigger, which isn’t high enough though 😀 Because the keyboard was not designed to have a very high first switch. Probably because it’s a two-switch keyboard and having high first switch would make pianos behave badly (not releasing sound until you release the key to that point and real pianos and most keyboards have their release set at halfway through the key travel). I really think that they should implement some filter envelope, not just amp envelope. It would allow for creating various analog lead and pad sounds from simple saw and pulse waves. I suggested a VA-synth through the drawbars (similar idea to the repurposing one by anotherscott) which would be much better but if not possible at least they can offer some filter env settings.

@AnotherScott how would you rate the feeling of the BHS keyboard in the YC73 now that you had yours for some time? Is it light enough to be good for organ and synths? They describe it as in between the NWX and the waterfall keys of the YC61. I've been digging my YC61 more and more and thinking of either keeping it or replacing it with a YC73 but I think I would do only if the BHS is really light feeling. Honestly, for me it would be best if there was a 73-key version with the same waterfall keys With that in mind, I would jump to the BHS only if it's very lightweight and non-tiring to play. If it's closer to the heavy NWX, I would pass.

Well, OK, I agree about features added to any instrument if they are needed. I doubt it's difficult for Yamaha to add the ability to set receiving MIDI channels of the three parts (organ, key A, key B). What I meant is there's already a pretty good 4-zone master controller functionality, as well as good functionality to assign one external keyboard to control the three parts. Now, adding a second external keyboard is what would not work but I was wondering how many people use the YC with not one but two external keyboards and why? P.S. Actually I see why. A second waterfall keyboard as a second manual for the organ and a hammer action controller for the piano part. Makes sense. But still, not sure how many people need that but Yamaha are recently listening to their customers, so they may add it.

OK, found it in the user manual. I should go into the mod wheel depth menu and then can change for each section separately. Nice!

I did some more tests, seems like only the first 3 live sets have been updated to the new rotary, i.e. live sets 1-1, 1-2, 1-3. The fourth one is a FM-organ and then some non-organ sounds follow on that page. And then organs on the pages that follow use the Classic one. I went through a few of them, not all of them, but I guess they just updated the main three organs on the default first page to showcase it and that's it. Since the YC73 and 88 have slightly rearranged live sets and pages, I would assume they didn't bother to showcase the new rotary on the organs that are in the first page. That is an odd decision by Yamaha but well, it's Yamaha after all I think I might have read that in the past but I should have read it more recently. As always, your analysis are always very thorough and spot on! BTW, just noticed one other difference. I tried to change the reverb type on the YC and realized it only has send level 😲 No way to change the type or at least time, they probably just hardcoded a "hall" type one with some fixed time. And checking the user manual of CP it has an additional "time" knob. OTOH, I just went through the FM-sounds and some lead sounds are especially nice, the portamento is great. And all the added effects are great for shaping those sounds. I'm really torn between the CP and YC but I'm starting to love the YC61. I created a Rhodes/FM lead2 split that I enjoyed but couldn't find how to disable the mod wheel for the Rhodes sound and it does something pretty weird to it, I switched the effects off but it kept modulating it, I guess a fixed vibrato in the AWM program. Either I am missing something (I disabled sustain pedal for the lead sound but can't see mod wheel menus), or that is an omission.

Received my YC61 from Thomann today. It's a B-Stock which was €150 off but it seems pristine, no traces of use whatsoever. It came with 1.02 which I guess is the initial firmware and I'm wondering if it was actually an old showroom model and not a user return. Anyway, I updated it to 1.20. BTW, @AnotherScott, the default presets are updated to use the Studio rotary speaker, at least the main one is updated, haven't checked the rest. Wondering if they weren't updated on the YC73 since you said they stayed with the Classic one. That's odd. I'm not a Hammond user, never played a real one nor have been too interested or familiar with the Hammond organ or the Leslie speakers, so I can't comment on the improvement but I checked between the two and I think it's very apparent that the Studio (the new one) sound better than the Classic one. I like the keyboard, it's pretty good for pianos and Rhodes. But I started wondering if I should have gotten the 73 instead since I'm a pianist after all. Anyway, I have 30 days to decide whether to return this and replace it with a YC73 (which will be available after 2-3 months according to Thomann). A few things that I don't like: - I'm not sure I'm very fond of having to switch between Key A and B. It would be much better to have them separately but there's no space for that. It makes me think whether I should actually take the CP73 instead (immediately available at Thomann) since I'm not sure how much I will play Hammond organs although I like them and we plan on doing some classic rock and progressive stuff but still. - The selector for category (piano, e.piano, synth, other) is one with 4 fixed positions, not an endless encoder. If you are, say, on the last one, i.e. "Other" for key A and the selector is physically there, then switch to B which is on the first position "Piano" and you decide to move to another category, you would intuitively try to turn towards the next category but it would be stuck since physically the knob is already at its last position. I hate this type of things. Wondering why they didn't replace it with endless knobs. - I like that there's portamento for the mono synths, however if you remove all the effects and listen to the raw sound of an AWM2 program, say the Moog lead, the portamento is stepped and sound pretty awkward. I guess that's inevitable with sampled engines trying to do a portamento but as an owner of a Boog Model D and a Hydrasynth, it's a bit disappointing to have to listen to such a lame portamento. - No way I can remember and decode the two-letter effect meaning. With all these things in mind, I'm wondering if I should actually replace this with a CP73, or at least a YC73. I think the ergonomic of the CP73 is better with more immediate knobs and switches (no need to switch between A/B that are reusing the same knobs and switches). Well, no organs, no FM and no portamento, but I have the Hydrasynth for that. Or if I stick to the YC, maybe still switch to the YC73 for its hammer action and full Rhodes register...

The YC isn't a workstation. I've had a MODX and absolutely hated it for its overcomplicated architecture. One buys the YC for simplicity and direct control. Two external keyboards, different MIDI channels and stuff, who cares? There are workstations for that or even better: computers.

Has anyone used a Roland DP10 damper pedal with the YC? I have one that I use with my MODX6 and surprisingly it works fine when put in switch mode (and expectedly half-pedaling mode doesn’t work). I love the pedal for its non-slip rubber tongue and it would be good if I can reuse it for the YC61. What’s really odd is Roland pedals are reverse polarity to Yamaha yet the MODX works fine, however the sustain is reversed with the Studiologic switch-pedal. How come the MODX can cope with one reverse polarity pedal (Roland) and not with another (Studiologic)? 🧐

For me the Cobalt has this problem of being a VA-synth without actually emulating real analog synths. So, it's not virtual ANALOG but is rather VIRTUAL analog-like synth. It just sounds generic and bland. With that in mind, I really love my Hydrasynth since it's not even marketed as VA (and is a proud digital synth) but there are parameters meant to make it sound like an imperfect analog synth. Indeed, I can make it sound like a Moog, warm and really imperfect. I love how small and compact this Cobalt is though. But I'd take a Hydrasynth Explorer over it.

I think the sound in that video is typical for a Rhodes that has no effects applied to it, so that you can hear all these small squeaks and dings that scream "I'm a real Rhodes". OK, that's good but very few actual great Rhodes players from the past used that virgin sound and instead applied effects to beef the sound up and make it meatier. And then you realize in the process you just lose all the peculiarities and would be good with any good Rhodes emulation. So, once again, this is a prestige thing. But I doubt there's any other advantage to spend so much for this, unless money is not an issue of course.

@AnotherScottplease keep us posted about how you find the keyboard, especially for controlling Rhodes and acoustic pianos. I’m interested in the YC73 but it will be available only after 2-3 months at Thomann 😕 Which is why I ordered the YC61 instead but I may return it and replace with a YC73 and wait for it, I’m not in a hurry anyway.

There’s also the Studiologic SL73/88 Studio controllers which are cheap and lightweight but I had a SL73 and hated its overly heavy Fatar TP100/LR action, so I sold it.

@ludo seems like the P125 and S110 won’t work since they only have USB MIDI and the YC61 can’t work as a USB MIDI host, so that leaves only pianos with DIN MIDI out as possible controllers. Only the Kawai ES110 and the Korg D1 have one from the entry level pianos There are also some Thomann branded pianos (with Medelli action AFAIK) but I wouldn’t trust them. The Kawai is pretty nice BTW.

I also think I may add a weighted controller to the YC61. If I do, it should be something that is as light as possible, probably a Casio or the lower end Yamaha P-pianos.

Yes, it’s possible. It’s a page in the settings called “External keyboard” and you can select for each of organ, key A and key B whether (and how) the YC61 keyboard and an external keyboard control that part. It’s very flexible. I’m actively reading the manual while waiting for my YC61 to arrive 😀

P.S. Just saw there’s a B-stock YC61 at Thomann for €150 less than regular and couldn’t resist 😀 Hopefully it was returned because somebody didn’t like the rotary and missed the new update for a few days 🤣 Thomann offer 30-day return and full 3-year warranty on b-stock items, so hopefully it’s OK, I never purchased b-stock so far.

Well, I used the MODX6 for only a Rhodes and piano (and very rarely for organs). The idea is to start using organs more since I will be switching also to more rock oriented band too. Besides, I really like the audio interface which I plan to utilize for connecting a laptop with some VA synths (until Yamaha does the unimaginable and implement my idea about a rudimentary VA through drawbars 😀) BTW I think you previously made some Rhodes comparison of various boards on PW and I didn’t quite like the Vox ones. Unless I’m thinking of some other board. If I’m not mistaken it uses modeled Rhodes sounds that were a bit too rubbery and synthetic for my taste although I really like the Vox design and features. I’ll be complementing the YC with my Hydrasynth (when not bringing a laptop), so the synth and VA part will be covered. But I’m planning mostly a single 5-octave board and nothing else for the music we’re doing, so the YC61 for the moment seems good.

I’m very GAS-ed on a YC61 right now. Available at Thomann, waiting for me! 😀 But if I do it, I think I’d sell the MODX6, I’m in a love/hate with that thing but lately I’ve been using it for Rhodes and piano only and it’s just not worth it and the programmability is so twisted and counter-intuitive I don’t see why I should waste its potential to use it only as a (two) preset rompler…

@AnotherScott yep, you beat me to it. Besides, there’s one more in the YC as I see from the addendum manual.

I think I just found the answer, they are differently named on the YC and CP (and they are 7 vs 6 respectively), so most probably the YC ones are real FM.

I’m wondering if the FM pianos in the YC are sampled and thus the same as the ones on the CP or they utilize the FM-engine which would be much better, let alone leave some sample memory for other sounds.

Does Cherry Audio support aftertouch?