CyberGene

Apparently that was me with the Numa X 88 🥳

BTW, they currently have two CP73-s in stock, although at a slightly higher price than Thomann, but then, Thomann says they will be back in stock "after several months" and who knows what the price would be then. BTW, I hesitated a lot between the Numa X Piano 88 for €1250 and the CP73 for €1750 but I think I'm going to give the Numa chance, taking in mind it's much cheaper. Although I initially rejected the notion of purchasing an 88-key piano.

Thanks for the nice words! Regarding the HS action... it's complicated 😀 Take in mind I'm mostly a classical piano aficionado and I dislike even digital piano actions and can only appreciate a fine real grand piano action, I have an AvantGrand N1X (and I have my own DIY project that turned an old grand piano action into a MIDI controller through optical sensors: https://pianoclack.com/forum/d/107-cybrid-a-diy-midi-controller-with-grand-piano-action) With that in mind, I knew it's a synth action and I hate those, so I purchased it only for the polyphonic aftertouch. And also with the intent of using it as a generic MIDI controller for non-piano sounds. And it turned out black keys were WAY MORE velocity sensitive than white ones and I used to complain a lot on the ASM Facebook page but almost nobody paid attention since very few patches on the Hydrasynth are programmed to be velocity-sensitive. Besides, most people there are not piano players, nor used it for controlling MIDI sounds that are velocity sensitive. There were people who said they had the same problem but didn't care. What is more, some people said they tested it and they found it OK. I thought it was mine and so I sent it back to Thomann for a warranty claim and guess what, they returned it saying: we found nothing wrong with it. But I kept complaining on the ASM Facebook page and the unbelievable happened! ASM acknowledged they were aware of the problem (which affects all of the original keyboards, not sure if it was fixed for later batches through...) and released a firmware update that not only fixed the problem but also introduced some menu settings for finer control of velocity curves, etc. Ultimately, it's an OK keyboard. I've played better synth keyboards though, e.g. the Montage keyboard is better. The MODX is in the same ballpark. But that's not important, the aftertouch is very linear and controllable and is light years ahead of anything else I've tried and it's one of the main selling points of the Hydrasynth in the first place, so I can say that: it's a great keyboard action, considering the poly AT and what it can be used for sound engine-wise.

As far as I know it's a Slovakian music store that serves the entire Europe and you can select your own regional website, I access the Bulgarian one on muziker.bg but for example here's the German one (you can change to another region from the top right): https://www.muziker.de

I received an email from Thomann that the availability date for the Numa X Piano 73 shifts with one week... Man, that sucks, it's what happened with my YC73 order that made me switch to the Numa... So, I started looking at what else I could order but nothing interesting was available. And then I opened an online music store that I use from time to time Muziker and there was a Numa X Paino 88 in stock that with a 5% discount. After a short consideration, I decided to order it, along with the matching Studiologic soft-case that costs same as the discount 😀 I could also chose among some gifts and so I selected a (€31 worth) colorful children Melodica 🥳

Found one more. Here's an attempt at recreating a Yamaha CS80 patch I heard on YouTube. I can't find the actual CS80 link, it was from the HS Facebook page, but my attempt at recreating the patch is here: I didn't like how the attack is plucky, so I later modified the patch to soften it and added an aftertouch driven FM modulation in Lyle Mays style, so here it is: I also found that I have created some other CS80 sounding patch but I'm not sure if it was on the Hydrasynth or my Novation Peak (that I sold later):

I haven't recorded many of them. Just two. One is a PWM pad, not imitating anything: The other one is an attempt to recreate the Minimoog patch of Matt Johnson (of Jamiroquai): The original sound of Matt is here: https://youtu.be/yPgct4wpgw0?t=727 I have many other patches I've created, but haven't recorded anything, they are just for my own pleasure As I said, for me it's 99% there. To your questions: yes to everything except for the LFO modulation to audio rates which goes up to 150 Hz, so kind of low-audio rate but not exactly

So, is it safe to say there are many guitarists who picked the bass because they liked how it sounds when played in the upper registers and they never intended to play root notes in the first place, but rather play guitar-like solos, rhythm guitar parts, etc? It's just a bad taste that the instrument is called bass because that's certainly not inclusive and speaks more of the bigoted nature of the one who expresses the assumption a bass is a music function in harmony rather than self-proclaimed identity with no boundaries? 😀

@HammondDave that is where dynamic weight comes into play. A waterfall action is spring-driven and these weights you measured only overcome the spring tension. However once your fingers overcome that force, there is no hammer or weight that has inertia and you won’t feel you need to apply additional force to accelerate the key. In contrast, the piano action might have lower static weight (the nickel test) but high dynamic weight, i.e. sluggish and with high inertia. Imagine the following experiment. You have a lever with two equal length arms and you attach one ton on each side. Then put one additional gram on the rear arm. The static weight of the lever is only one gram, i.e. you need to put slightly more than 1 gram on the front arm for it to start moving towards the bottom. But due to the enormous weights attached to each arm, you will have to exert enormous hand force to accelerate the lever due to the high inertia. Remove the weights and it becomes much more nimble and light feeling. So, static weight is the balance weight, the one you feel if you move the key very slowly. Dynamic weight is the one you feel when playing as sluggishness and is dependent on the underlying mass/weights.

Thanks! That's not bad at all and you should put the coins as much as possible towards the front of the key, so the actual weights should be even lower there. And I agree with anotherscott the test is not perfect but yeah, still better than nothing. I think some people measure what weight is needed for the keyboard to start generating velocities > 1, or even what weight is needed to generate MIDI velocity of 100 but that's too vague and I don't think it makes a lot of sense until compared against other boards. I think there was some screenshot here on this forum comparing various boards but I'm not sure about the methodology used.

Any chance some of you who own the TP/110 Numa piano can measure the static weight of a key through coins or something like that? 😀 Basically you put coins on top of each other in the front part of a key (I guess they are non-graded, so it doesn't matter which one) until it goes down from the weight. Then measure the weight. On many acoustic pianos this is usually 50g.

Thank you, David! I think I will wait for the Numa X Piano 73 from Thomann anyway, just because it's very lightweight, half the price of the YC73 and I really like the YouTube demos. Even if it's only a slight improvement over the SL73 (and even if it is not as smooth and light feeling as the BHS action in the YC73) I'd still keep it. I will know in two weeks.

This is probably more for the other thread about keyboardists playing bass notes along with the bassist but I've had a bassist once who just refused playing what was expected from him and the harmonies didn't sound right since I played rootless (it was a jazz/fusion band) and he played anything else but the root. Ultimately I had to play root notes and leave him "solo" all the time for a week and then we "fired" him. I guess there are many talented folks who can create a solo album with just a bass guitar and I actually know one local guy who overdubbed himself with a lot of wonderful bass guitars to create an OK-ish (smoothish) jazz album which I would never listen to but is still something that deserves respect for the sheer creativity and virtuosity. But outside of those super talented bassist virtuoso influencers, bass should play bass 😀 As simple as that.

So, how many people here own a Numa X Piano with TP/110 action? @thomsurf, is yours a GT or a 73/88? What I'm really interested in is whether they managed to reduce the perceived heaviness of the TP/100LR action. On my SL73 the keys had both an unusually high static weight (I don't remember exactly although I have specialized piano regulation weights and measured it, might have been in excess of 70g when the standard is around 50g, for instance my AvantGrand N1X is 50g in the middle octave) and high dynamic weight. The latter is difficult to measure but is felt when playing it for some time (in particular with fast lines) and you feel the keys have high inertia that quickly leads to fatigue in the hands.

Not sure how politically (in)correct this is but bass should play bass. No solo albums, please!

This is even more worrying for me now 😀 I'm wondering if I should cancel the order. The only two other stage pianos that will be available in 1-2 weeks in Thomann are the CP88 and the YC88. Since I loved the YC73 but they told me it would be 2 more months to wait and I need it now, I'm wondering whether I should just accept I will have to pay even more and order the YC88 and try to cope with the large and heavy board. Or give up the organ and FM and go for the CP88. Or keep on waiting for the pretty inexpensive Numa X 73 but honestly I'm not convinced, remembering how much I hated the SL73 since that action was a burden to play. It was a damage for my hands and I own a Yamaha AvantGrand N1X, so I know what a real grand piano action is

Indeed, it's a shame they have abandoned the idea. And it's a shame nobody else makes similar stuff. Wondering why that is though.

I hated the TP100 in my SL73. What you say worries me a little… But I have no choice right now, the CP73 will be available “in a few months” on Thomann 😢 The CP88 is listed as available in 2-3 weeks but I’m not sure I can accommodate a heavy 88-key board. I’ve returned two B-stock items to Thomann in the last 2 months and I’m wondering where their acceptable limit is…

Am I the only one who is bothered by all the vintage or modern synths that have so many real pots and sliders and when you load a patch they are all over the place and you don’t see the actual patch? I owned a Peak for a while and it sounded great but comparing it to my Hydrasynth it was just too awkward to program due to the real pots and sliders not representing their actual position. Having endless encoders aid LED rings and screens next to them is so much better. And there are still a few real trimpots for the filter section, so that you can tweak them nicely (but those are also doubled in the encoder section for the filter module).

DeepMind 12 is less than 1/3 the price and is pure analog, while this isn’t even ACB (analog circuit behavior) but just the “mass-market” Zen-core digital engine. I’m not saying it looks like a bad instrument though. I just don’t see what it brings besides the name. P.S. I see it has multiple models, including a piano and XV, so probably a lot of PCM sounds. So, it’s more than a DeepMind. Although I don’t understand how it relates to its bigger (?) brother, the Jupiter X.

I’ll be waiting for 2-3 weeks before I get mine but in the meanwhile I went through the (rather chaotic) manual multiple times and watched the few videos Studiologic posted and I have to applaud them for creating a very intuitive UI. Hopefully it feels like that in real life too. On an unrelated note, I’m wondering if the synth sounds support mono mode with portamento. I guess not but since the manual omits some information, I hope that’s possible. Hopefully they can add it in a future firmware update along with rudimentary filter ADSR control although if aftertouch is good enough, it can be linked to filter and work around that.

How do you play rootless chords in a hard rock or heavy metal band? For instance, if we’re on the C power chord, should I only play G?

I posted this on another forum: My epic journey has no end. So far I purchased a Yamaha YC61 that I loved but returned because I wanted a 73-key hammer action. I then ordered a Yamaha YC73 B-stock which was great but it had a faulty encoder knob. I returned it and ordered a brand new one which was backordered and I was initially promised May 31st but Thomann informed me it would slide one more month and will be available in July 😢 So, I just canceled it and ordered a Studiologic Numa X Piano 73. It has the Fatar TP/110 action which this very discussion is about. It will be in stock on May 6th and should be then shipped to me. Hopefully I will like it 😀 https://pianoclack.com/forum/d/227-studiologic-numa-x-piano-fatar-tp110

Yes, exactly what I've done. Speaking of which, there's some silliness with the Hydra that I never liked: there's no way to "reset" a stored patch. You can of course initialize a patch and then go through Save (to override it with the initialized one) but you will have to also rename it since it will stay with the name of the patch. Or in other words, there's no such thing as "empty" patch position. In the past they used to ship the instrument with some banks being "empty" which in fact means they are named "INIT" and contain an initialized patch. This leads to a lot of confusion and many people use the patch manager to fill in all the banks and then ask: how to delete a patch (and revert to INITI) 😀 Turns out it requires some tedious manual steps, as I explained. Which is why I created a bank with all "INIT" patches (luckily you can spawn then through copy-paste in the software manager, I didn't manually cleared 128 positions) and it was a very popular bank on the Hydrasynth Facebook page 😀 Not sure how many people can actually imagine that in their head: you download a bank of patches to install it in your Hydra. A bank of all empty patches 🤣

I’ve owned my Hydrasynth for more than a year and I have to admit I’ve had my fair share of hesitations about it. I considered selling it in the first months. One reason being it can indeed sound harsh and digital. But I realized it can also be very warm and analog. It can do many things and understandably most patches endorse its proud digital nature which can mislead you into thinking it’s only a cold digital synth. Not really helping is the fact the init patch is the deadest coldest thing on earth ❄️ It’s a perfect saw wave with a zero attack and no reverb, effects or modulation, hence no imperfections added to it. But once you start modding it properly, it can be lushly warm and analog. A few advices here: - Set “analog feel” in the voice section to at least 20 - Enable warm mode - Enable random phase - Roll-off the filter slightly - (very important) Add filter drive - Use the 24dB or 24dB Fat filter - Add at least 5ms of attack - Change envelope curves, for instance 25 has been suggested by Glenn Darcey to resemble Minimoog curves - If you need a triangle wave to be minimoogish, blend it slightly with a sine wave in the wavescan mode - Use cloud reverb to resemble spring reverb I've suggested to them to make it possible to initialize a patch to these alternative (analogish) settings instead of the dead one that is the default.