CyberGene

If there was a 73-key version, I would be interested and probably choose the CK73 over the Numa X Piano 73, mostly for the organ engine and drawbars, mono synths with portamento, as well as speakers and battery power. However now that I have the Numa, I really love it, especially the excellent external MIDI zone implementation compared to the Yamaha one which is still buried in the menus, so in a retrospective I’m glad I ended up with the Numa. But the new CK61/88 is a nice offering from Yamaha 👍🏻

A positive change is the audio input can have effects and EQ applied.

We started watching it with my wife last night. After half an hour we stopped it, although she says she wants to resume it today. I’m not so sure, not really my thing.

Thank you for the feedback. I understand you’re overly sensitive to people whom you don’t agree with. I appreciate that we’re all different and have varying degree of sensitivity and tolerance for people whose opinion we don’t like but if you mean that I have to change, so that sensitive people start liking me, I’m afraid that’s not the way I see world going forward. I haven’t created PianoClack to be a representation of myself. It’s not a personal website, I don’t need to be liked. It’s just a forum for pianos, nothing special. It’s not for profit, there’s no advertising and I pay the hosting myself. I created it to allow people to say anything they want and I’m proud I didn’t have to ban anybody so far, nor even warn anybody, and many would agree it’s a friendly place. People are not afraid of punishment and my only hard rule there is an absolute freedom of speech. I’m technically its owner but other than that I’m just another user on the forum. If you leave a forum full of people because of one member, that’s OK, but please understand I’m really not seeking any exposure or growth, so I don’t care who stays and who goes and why. Apologies if I may have offended you with what I think. It’s been certainly not a personal attitude towards you.

So, the organ is not the one from YC61/73 but the reface one, AWM-based. There’s a synth control section but it’s AWM2, so it’s similar to the ADSR and the other synth controls in the MODX. In a way it’s kind of YC meets the MX/MODX. Not a bad keyboard but not sure it’s something that interests me.

So, it’s like a watered down YC with AWM organs, drawbars, 300+ sounds (AWM2), three parts, direct controls similar to CP/YC, speakers, battery powered. Kind of we were all right in a way, but @AnotherScott was closest. Reminds me of Roland VR09.

I don't need Google to prove/disprove for me that winners are chosen for wokeness, when I can decide it for myself by just watching the movies. For at least the last 10 years. And why do you have to make it personal? So, I'm lonely and you're not and that's your argument 😀

You don't have to buy them, it's not a conspiracy. Think how easy it is to find millions of woke people in a certain state. And then we're speaking about a subset of only 10k of them. Other than that I agree with everything else you said, so I'm not arguing with you.

Yeah, that's a possibility. But why offer it in a 61-key version if it's a stage piano? And omit the 73-key one? Could be a scaled down YC instead, with similarly lessened features such as e.g. less effects, only one keys section, no fancy LED drawbars, no LED encoders, etc. But I still think the lack of a 73-key version for a supposed stage piano and going either limited 61 or full-blown 88 is not very typical and I would bet a beer on a MX-successor.

As we already discussed: these are most probably the replacement for the MX-keyboards. Something like a MODX "light": same engine, all the sounds and presets but no deep editing, probably no touch screen either. Easier to make splits and layers, considering the MODX requires a PHD. And of course no AN-X, or Montage/MODX users would feel screwed otherwise. Basically a nice lightweight, portable rompler with all the latest sounds. I'm not even sure it will include the FM-X engine. Or maybe a lesser one as in the reface DX, a 4-operator engine.

That slap was as true as professional wrestling is real fight. As to Oscars, it's become really easy to predict nominations and winners even without watching them but I won't disclose my methodology because... you know why 😉

@analogika I’m still halfway through it but I already love it 👏🏻 Fantastic job! Blends perfectly with my afternoon coffee. Cheers!

Seems I was not right in my thinking that muted external zones should not send control changes. Actually a muted zone on the Numa (unlike the Yamaha) doesn't cut the sound when you mute it. So, I can hold a chord on a zone and then mute it and it will keep sounding, and I can play other zones with my other hand but still use the expression pedal (or pitch bend and modulation) to control parameters on the the held chord (the muted zone)! I can also send volume control through the zone knob while it's muted. Basically a muted zone on the Numa is a zone with no keyboard control. It's not "muted" literally. That's so absolutely awesome I can't believe they thought of it. I'm already turning into a Studiologic fanboy ❤️

I think the E-E layout comes from the original Rhodes pianos. However I would also prefer having a bit more in the bass at the cost of the highest keys, so C-C would be ideal. And would be easier to orient myself visually. I'm still struggling figuring out the lowest and the highest keys on a E-E keyboard and sometimes I play the wrong keys.

I just returned from my first rehearsal with the Numa X Piano 73 where I used a Rhodes piano that I dialed on the spot (I tweaked the Stage 1 model and added warm drive + Rotary + Delay + Reverb) and two external zones on different MIDI channels hooked to two Diva instances in Logic Pro X. I used a lot the function of switching on/off all three zones (the internal Rhodes and the two external zones). All was great. I also used the aftertouch for the synths. The Numa X 73 could fit exactly in my car trunk and not a centimeter more would fit. And I have no pain from moving it around. Absolutely brilliant instrument for the money and I'm already determined I will keep it. Apparently it's not a perfect instrument and there are the quality issues and quirks but when you consider the cons and pros it's a winner after all.

So, what are they, controllers, stage pianos, synths, something else? P.S. OK, found some links on some forums, the Mexican site describes them as "Stage Synthesizers". Since the price is MODX level, I think my initial prediction that they are CP/YC based with AN-X added might be wrong. I think they are most probably the replacement for the aging MX-keyboards. Probably a lightweight MODX with no deep control and no touch screen, just presets that you can split/layer. I wonder if they will also include the AN-X technology but I doubt an entry-level keyboards like that would include a VA that is missing in the MODX and Montage. And I believe they reserved the AN-X for a new Montage.

I think there might be a certain variability to their switch scanning logic because I don't remember having any problems whatsoever with the Numa X Piano 88 when I had it for a while. However with my Numa X Piano 73 unit I really thought it was defective or the power adapter was faulty, since I couldn't boot the piano. I even opened the manual to see whether I was missing something obvious such as e.g. double-click and hold or whoever knows what 😀 But there was nothing in the manual. After a few minutes of experimentations I finally managed to turn it on by pressing it very slowly but I am a software engineer and I'm used to testing every possible scenario and combination. I can easily imagine people who might not even think of pressing it slowly and would return the instrument instead, thinking it is faulty.

I reported a few of the problems to Studiologic and received a very quick response from Gianni. Here's my email: He responded that the switch button is designed to not be easy to manipulate, it's a soft button (i.e. not a hardware button with two positions but instead just a simple switch and there's electronics that scan it). I'm not really convinced by that since turning the Numa off is *very* easy: regardless of how quick I press it, it will immediately shut it off halfway through the press. Maybe something is reversed there since I believe when you create protection logic, it should be difficult to shut it off and easy to turn it on, not the other way around 😀 Anyway, I don't mind, I already learned how to turn it on slowly. Regarding the highest key thump he believes it might have happened due to a transportation shock or a drop and that the instruments are checked for such problems at the factory. Anyway, I am OK with one of the screws slightly unscrewed 😀 He agrees that the default binary switch sustain pedal causes unnaturally loud pedal noises and they may consider a global setting that can disable or tweak the level. Finally, he confirms it's OK that when an external zone is muted only the note events are stopped, whereas control events (pedal, wheels) are still being transmitted and the zone has to be disabled (not just muted) to stop it completely. I verified that indeed all MIDI communication from the zone is fully disabled when the zone is disabled but I still think muting a zone should mute all MIDI events, not just the note ones. Besides, muting a zone can be done from the home screen by pressing the corresponding zone encoder which is one of the great advantages of the new interface. Disabling the zone requires menu diving though. Indeed, not sure why Yamaha can't understand the need for better live control over the MIDI zones. I'm wondering if it's a deliberate decision to not make it appear as though their internal sounds are not good enough and people need to add external ones. In any case, I'm pretty certain they can easily fix it through a firmware update, so hopefully they will do it.

@Dockeys I kind of agree with you. If it wasn’t for a few small important things, I would have replaced my CP88 with a CP73 instead: - I needed a hammer action keyboard with the absolute minimum travel weight because I have a herniated disc and the CP88 caused me a lot of pain. Numa X 73 is 11.7kg vs 13.1kg for the CP73. A small difference indeed but every gram counts 😀 - I remember when I had the Studiologic SL73 I was able to just fit it in my car trunk diagonally but it was a tight fit. Numa X 73 is the same casing and dimensions. Again, a very small advantage of 105cm vs 109cm but the CP73 is also slightly bulkier and there would be a great chance that it wouldn’t fit in the trunk - Better MIDI implementation on the Numa. For instance I can easily turn external zones on and off from the 4 encoder/buttons whereas on the Yamaha you have to go into the advanced master control menus to do so. I even suggested it to Yamaha on the IdeaScale and was answered to instead prepare different performances with different zone combinations in advance. - Aftertouch. As I said it’s really usable on the Numa, tested it with my Diva patches on the Mac - Audio inputs can be sent to master reverb and delay. On the CP that’s not possible. I use a Behringer Model D sometimes and it lacks effects.

The Yamaha YC61 fits this description. I was pretty happy with its action even for piano playing. And all its samples sounded great, next to the organ simulation and the real FM-synth sounds (although you can't create your own FM-sounds besides the rather rudimentary FM-organ models with some drawbar assigned partials).

Frankly, I'm not bothered if I have to press the switch more slowly unless it's an indication of an underlying problem. I'll prefer keeping the board rather than exchanging it. But I'll see what Gianni would advise me. BTW, I realize my post above may sound kind of harsh, however despite the criticism and the few issues, I still find the board very cleverly made and full of excellent features. Even the 4-zone MIDI implementation along with the USB interface and 4 audio ins is enough for me to keep it and love it. The added sounds are a nice bonus. I had another hour with it and this time I concentrated on the Rhodes sound and the modeled parameters. IMO the default presets are a bit exaggerated and in your face, but tweaking the hammer, offset and tine parameters gives a lot of headroom for experimentation and I was able to dial in a Rhodes I like. Besides, the effects are top notch, certainly comparable to the ones in the CP88 and I think I can safely say they elevate the Rhodes experience to a higher level. There are some sounds that shouldn't be there though, some of the hybrid FM pianos sound like coming from a cheap toy keyboard and that kind of spoils it. On the CP88 every single sound there was fantastic, no lame stuff, they chose those sounds very carefully and I think that's a good strategy for impressing the customers. Studiologic should do the same, go through the sounds and just delete those that are mediocre, nobody would use them for certain, especially in these times of top-notch plugins. BTW, the additional pianos that can be downloaded from the website are IMO better than the stock ones. I am especially impressed with the Yamaha C-something and the Steinway B. The default Steinway that is stored in performance 1 is probably one of the dullest pianos and shouldn't be the showcase model when one turns the piano on. P.S. And just a heads-up. I purchased the Gator GKB-61 Slim soft bag from Thomann. It was listed as having the exact same internal dimensions as the Numa X 73. Well, it's a very tight fit which might be uncomfortable since it's tricky to squeeze the piano inside. I'm OK with that and I hope it will loosen with time.

Hard to argue with that 👍🏻 I'll mail Giani Giudici who already answered some of my general questions while I was waiting for the piano to arrive. He's very responsive. Hopefully, the switch issue is not actually an issue but just a peculiarity that will be consistent and just need that I always press it slowly.

In my case if I press the switch quickly it just doesn't work, regardless of whether I hold it or not. The only way to turn the piano on is to press the power button very slowly. It's interesting that when I press it quickly I hear some clicks and noises in my headphones, so something is going on but the piano won't turn on, nothing appears on the display. P.S. Just tested another way to turn it on, that's a variation of the above. So, I press it quickly and hold it but nothing happens. If I release it quickly again nothing happens. But if I start releasing it slowly it would switch on 😀 The piano is apparently quirky as is everything Italian😀 BTW, I love Italy and everything Italian 🇮🇹❤️ So, it's not a critique, just an observation.

I received my Numa X Piano 73 today. I'll probably write a more detailed review later, however here are some first impressions. (I owned a Numa X Piano 88 with the initial firmware for some time and posted some impressions in this thread earlier). It seems very compact and small. At a first glance I thought it was 5-octaves. They managed to squeeze 73-keys in the absolute minimum space. It's also very light at 11.7kg. Size and weight were the main reasons to downgrade from the CP88 to it, so not disappointed here. The keyboard action is OK. Not as good as the one in the CP88 but I guess that's expected for half the price. It's better than the TP-100LR in my SL73 though that I hated so much. It's very playable and is not tiring. It came with firmware 2.0 but I installed 2.10 and all the additional sounds. I still have complaints with all the acoustic pianos being kind of dull when played pianissimo. The touch response is better than what I remember from firmware 1.10, however the general piano character is somehow strange. Playing pianissimo bass notes sounds as though they just got a regular mp sample and lowered the volume. I miss the soft character of real pianissimo. It kind of depends on the actual piano model and is more/less pronounced depending on the samples. However it's always there. Then, pianissimos in the middle and upper regions are synthetic and non-piano-like. It's not the end of the world and since I don't need this as my main piano, nor for solo piano, I'm OK. But it's certainly a compromise, compared to the CP88. However I find the variety of all the piano samples really good, there are darker ones, bright ones, more intimate, more direct, etc. For a stage instrument it offers a lot. The Rhodes sounds are above average although still lagging behind CP88. The highest E key creates a loud thump on release. Funnily enough, I unscrewed slightly one of the screws in the side panel (the one that sits below the Studiologic rotated V-sign) and that solved it. I guess the hammer touches the screw when fully screwed 😀 But I am OK with the workaround. However something is wrong either by design, or with this particular unit. Not the end of the world. I had difficulties turning the instrument on. I even thought it was defective. Turns out I have to press it very slowly and there's some detection logic in the middle of the button travel that detects it. If I press it quickly and hold it pressed, nothing would happen. Pretty weird and I'm wondering if it's by design or defective. I noticed that from time to time when turning the main knob to change sounds, it wouldn't advance to the next sound but would go back to the previous and then advance to the current which is visible on the screen but I end up staying on the same sound. Doesn't happen always but still happens from time to time. I've seen other people mentioning the same problem. Anyway, I think those are minor problems and for now it's a keeper at least for my needs. BTW, the aftertouch is really good for a hammer action. I could easily activate vibrato on synth sounds by pressing the key further and I didn't have to break my fingers to activate it. It's very nice that such an inexpensive piano with hammer actions can send channel aftertouch. I think I will use it a lot with virtual instruments on my Mac

@summerinstereo that's a lot of interesting and useful info, thanks for all these hints 👍🏻 BTW, the bassist also plays guitar, apparently not on the uber-shredder level but I think in the genres I'm interested in the guitar can be used mostly for its specific sound with various effects and for short riffs. I'm still thinking how I can actually integrate some of my keyboard skills into such type of music because I would quickly become bored if I am to program something and not play at all. I think we may also broaden into more genres after all, not just the the various wave subtypes and EDM, but also any experimental/alternative type of music, including stuff like David Bowie, or even heavier music such as Rammstein, etc. I guess we will eventually settle on what works best. BTW, following some advice from the previous posters, I started listening to where Depeche Mode are coming from, namely their first albums which I've never considered so far, I only like what they do after Violator. Their early attempts are almost what you describe, pretty simple rhythm from a drum machine, some childish synth lines/riffs and you call it a song 😀 It's funny how they progressed into their later work which is very well crafted in every possible way, including with a rich harmonic language and non-standard progressions, string arrangements, etc.