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Short form: If I get a cold, I can pretend I'm okay, tough it out, keep working, and have it drag on for a couple weeks.

Or, I can spend two days in bed, do nothing, take care of myself, and have my energy back in a couple days.

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if you have a bad cold, stay home for a day or 2, vs spreading it around to who ever.

By day 3 or 4, your cold should not be infectious.

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My Vaccine Experience

I got my vaccine at the Music City Center (home of Summer NAMM). I have to say it was incredibly well-run, and highly efficient. Everyone was friendly. There was free parking if you were getting a vaccine, plenty of signage to get you where you needed to go, minimal paperwork (9 yes/no check boxes, if I recall correctly). Everyone wearing a mask, and social distancing.

The shot did not hurt at all, to the point where I was just sitting there after it was done because I thought there was going to be more to it. The lady said "that's it." She used an alcohol swab with built-in numbing, which she claimed made the difference. She did say it takes a day or two for reactions to appear, but the more I work my arm, the sooner it will get over any soreness.

And of course, being Nashville, there was a musician in front of me in line. Although the vaccine was for older people, she looked like a model, and was in her 20s, so I couldn't help but think that maybe she "knew someone." It turned out she had gotten Covid in November because she worked in an ICU. So she was entitled to get the shot, and was doing the second one. I asked if the side effects from the shot were bad. She said her arm got a little sore, but that she would go through ANYTHING (emphasis hers) not to get Covid again. She said it was a terrifying experience, but I didn't ask her to elaborate because she obviously didn't want to relive it. She also said Covid cases are trending younger. I checked into this, and found the following in Science News: "Of roughly 3,200 people ages 18 to 34 who were admitted to 419 U.S. hospitals from early April to the end of June, 21 percent, or 684 people, landed in intensive care and 10 percent, or 331 patients, ended up on ventilators. Almost 3 percent, or nearly 90 people, died."

She also said that her band has been offered some gigs, but she didn't feel right accepting them because she said it's so easy for infections to happen in the context of concerts (being in ICU, she's seen her share of dead bodies and suffering from Covid. Apparently people freak out when they can't breathe). I mentioned the various stories in some of these forums of bands having bad experiences where one person in the band gets it, then the other people, then the wives...she said she might do some outdoor gigs in the summer, depending on the state of the pandemic.

And then while I was spending my obligatory 15 minutes of not going anywhere after the shot in case I had an allergic reaction, being Nashville, someone came up to me and said "Are you Craig Anderton"? (Hi, Bill!) Turned out we had met at a Studio One meetup last year

It's hard to imagine a more ideal vaccination scenario. Gotta hand it to the people in charge in Nashville, they did good by their citizens.

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I just found out my dentist got COVID. He had only one symptom, he woke up and couldn't breathe. Three weeks in the hospital. They doctors thought he wasn't going to make it. He's glad to be alive but has severe lung damage. He is also a trombone player, and will probably not play again.

IMO the people who skew the statistics to minimize this in their minds are being very, very foolish.

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Originally Posted by PrairieGuy
Quarantine the at risk people. Let everyone else decide how they want to live their life.


Spreading a disease because you're ignorant of asymptomatic infection isn't "living your life".


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But healthy people shouldn't be punished.


Selfish.


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with no end in sight. It's not about science anymore.


So, all of the SCIENTISTS, virologists, epidemiologist and doctors that disagree with you are wrong? Or is it a plot? They're just scare mongering, right?

Last edited by Chip McDonald; 03/05/21 01:20 PM.

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All of the doctors and scientist don't agree. Not even close. I could post dozens/hundreds of examples from highly regarded experts around the world but it's probably a waste of time.

I apologize for being disruptive and will no longer comment on this topic.

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Originally Posted by PrairieGuy
All of the doctors and scientist don't agree. Not even close. I could post dozens/hundreds of examples from highly regarded experts around the world but it's probably a waste of time.

I apologize for being disruptive and will no longer comment on this topic.

If folks were to stop and think about it, we're actually quite fortunate that people can sit around arguing about masks, selfishness, being civilized and so forth on and on for months.
In a true catastrophic event the supply chain would have gone down, stores would have been emptied and regular folks would have been hunting for rabbits and scrounging for grubs in their back yards. You would fear leaving your house but not because of a virus, you'd be terrified of being shot in the street by marauding gangs of thugs seeking to survive by taking what you have.
The struggle just to survive through a winter is a long forgotten memory for modern people and with any luck we'll never have to experience it.

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Originally Posted by PrairieGuy
All of the doctors and scientist don't agree. Not even close. I could post dozens/hundreds of examples from highly regarded experts around the world but it's probably a waste of time.

That's to be expected with something that had no precedent within most peoples' lifetimes. It's called the NOVEL corona virus for a reason! However, as time progresses, certain theories fall out of favor, and certain ones are shown to have a better likelihood of being correct. The flip-flopping on masks is a good example. A year into this thing, there's more evidence that wearing masks reduces spreading. However, it's not yet certain whether this is due to the somewhat additional protection to people from getting it, or preventing asymptomatic people from spreading unknowingly.

Or...the last two times Texas opened up prematurely, it went from a state that had infections under control to a major hot spot, the second time with incredibly with serious consequences. But, this time there's a vaccine. Let's hope history doesn't repeat itself for a third time.

PrairieGuy, I think everyone hopes you're right. But I don't think it should be surprising that based on what's happened so far, optimism is still in short supply.

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Update on my vaccine experience...

Arm sore today, but nothing that interferes with being able to type. Apparently playing guitar follows the advice to "work your arm and keep it moving." Side benefit!

Interestingly, there's a mild high...tough to describe. I thought I was imagining things, but talked with a friend who also got a shot yesterday, and she experienced the same thing.

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One thing that Chip's scenario leaves out is that some scientists believe that SARS-CoV2 will become less virulent over time and become more like its cousins, the common cold coronaviruses. Or, maybe like the flu, where it makes most people sick but doesn't kill most of those. Think about it. If this virus wants to survive, killing the hosts as well as causing them to isolate (at home or in hospitals) doesn't help it spread. Admittedly, it was already good at asymptomatic spreading, but overall, the milder the symptoms the more likely it gets spread. In this scenario we will have to live with it, but the good news if it's true is that we can live with it.

Here's hoping to evolution! wink

In related news, I saw a headline the other day where they were talking about mRNA vaccines could be used for lots of viruses that we don't have them for yet, such as HIV. That would be great. Another thing that's happening with the COVID vaccines is they seem to be helping people who had "long covid". It might be that the vaccines teach their immune systems how to fight remnants of the virus that were still affecting them. If this turns out to be true, that would be great as well.


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The problem isn't that the virus wants to survive. The virus doesn't "want" to do anything but replicate.

Rabies has a 99% mortality rate, and it's been around forever, killing its hosts. As long as it can spread to another (replicate), it will remain a threat.

Thankfully humans have learned how to treat it and save our lives if we catch it in time.

It's difficult to predict how COVID will evolve.

I believe mask wearing is important.

If a person has an asymptomatic case and yet is able to infect others, does that person have the right to go without a mask and possibly kill or permanently damage another human?

There are laws against shooting guns into the air in populated areas. The chances are slim that a bullet might land on a human in suburbia, but it can happen. Isn't that a bit like not wearing a mask?

Just thinking out loud here.

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I had my first vaccination early this morning (next one's in May). My age-group isn't due to be vaccinated just yet, but since I now work in social care I was able to jump the queue, as it were

I had it done at Bolton Wanderers' football stadium. It was very well-organised. There were plenty of stewards telling everyone what to do and where to go etc. It was impressive

The vaccination was painless. I didn't feel a thing, actually. No side-effects as yet. My wife and I (and our dog) went for a 5-mile walk immediately afterwards


Loving the new job, by the way. Driving a visually-impaired, professional piano tuner around is very enjoyable

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Originally Posted by BMD
I had my first vaccination early this morning (next one's in May). My age-group isn't due to be vaccinated just yet, but since I now work in social care I was able to jump the queue, as it were

I had it done at Bolton Wanderers' football stadium. It was very well-organised. There were plenty of stewards telling everyone what to do and where to go etc. It was impressive

Sounds like the experience I had in Nashville. Maybe we should let whoever runs vaccination programs run the government smile

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The vaccination was painless. I didn't feel a thing, actually. No side-effects as yet. My wife and I (and our dog) went for a 5-mile walk immediately afterwards

I've heard of several people who didn't have side effects the first day, but it hit them the second. I'm still doing fine, a bit tired...and with typing and playing guitar, my arm is hardly sore at all.

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Loving the new job, by the way. Driving a visually-impaired, professional piano tuner around is very enjoyable

So glad to hear that!!

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Craig said: 'Sounds like the experience I had in Nashville. Maybe we should let whoever runs vaccination programs run the government :)'

I couldn't agree with you more!!

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By the time I got my second shot in early February it was well-oiled. Almost an assembly line.

In the total of 25 minutes I was there (including the 15 minutes safety after shot wait) I must have seen over 100 people get vaccinated.

In the after-wait room we chatted with a nurse who was there in case someone went into anaphylactic shock, she said that they learn every day how to make it better for the next day.

Things get better with practice.

I'm glad I had my two shots. If Moderna comes out with a booster for the new mutations, I'll be in line.

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I have my first shot Monday. Going the small town drug store route. It is a large national chain with a crappy online system that is down most of the time, but they schedule 1 person every 15 minutes so you don't have to be in a crowd. Some of the large hospitals in my state have been heavily criticized for herding people in long lines with no spacing and no masks. I've seen those sites on the news and would seriously be more worried about catching the virus while in line for my shot than somewhere like a store where you can at least distance yourself from others.

Ran into the singer from the first band I was in back in the late 1970's. He is in a band and said all their winter gigs have all been canceled but starting the end of April they have a string of outdoor gigs that will satisfy their need to play. He asked me to join the band and it is very tempting, but my sister has an extremely low white blood count and is afraid that if she catches Covid it could kill her. I don't think I will add to her anxiety by joining a band at this time.


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I was talking to someone yesterday who was talking about how getting his shot was so well done. I replied, "imagine if it were that easy and efficient to vote!" laugh

Another person told me that a nearby county (Waller County) has enough shots for 50% of their population, but only 30% want it, so they've opened it up to anyone. People from Houston (Harris County)are lining up the remaining appointments. There are other cases where people who aren't in the early groups can get their shots so they don't go to waste. Good for those of us who want the shot.


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Originally Posted by PrairieGuy
All of the doctors and scientist don't agree. Not even close. I could post dozens/hundreds of examples from highly regarded experts around the world but it's probably a waste of time.

A dozen idiots? Maybe. Hundreds? No. And how many doctors on the planet agree?

This is rubbish.


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Originally Posted by Joe Muscara
One thing that Chip's scenario leaves out is that some scientists believe that SARS-CoV2 will become less virulent over time

That's hypothetical. Viruses trend towards an optimal expression, which in this case means a longer asymptomatic period and less obvious complications. "Less virulent" is hard to prove if people don't appear to be getting sick, but then 10 years later die of coronary problems, or dementia. That's a more likely hypothetical than it's going to hopefully mutate into something harmless, when there is no evidence to indicate that's the likely outcome.

The true danger of covid is not yet apparent. Everybody that thinks they're off the hook because they got it and recovered - we're going to see them showing up in the healthcare system years from now with organ problems that were pragmatically invisible now.

If for anything else, people better start thinking about their future medical insurance situation. Because I'm going to make another "crazy Chip" prediction: at some point a few years from now if you've had covid, your insurance rate is going to be astronomical. So anybody downplaying it's harm, it's present contagiousness, masks effectiveness in reducing the spread, had better think long and hard about that. There's a reason they ask "are you a smoker?", and there will be an equally good reason for them to ask "have you ever tested postive for SARS-COV2?".


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Originally Posted by RABid
Some of the large hospitals in my state have been heavily criticized for herding people in long lines with no spacing and no masks

The VA ran out of vaccine before they could get to my 87 year old father, but talking to them I discovered they wanted him to go in the hospital, up an elevator (???????????) and sit in a waiting room breathing the air with everybody else. Complete nonsense.

I'm quite sure there have been people infected while waiting in line for the shot.


I've seen those sites on the news and would seriously be more worried about catching the virus while in line for my shot than somewhere like a store where you can at least distance yourself from others.


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I've read reports of people who have had mild or even asymptomatic cases and ended up with permanent lung, heart, kidney, liver, and/or brain damage.

My dentist, who is a trombone player, will probably never have enough lung capacity to play trombone again.

With COVID there is sudden death, and also shortened life span (delayed sudden death).

It's a gamble if you get vaccinated and a gamble if you don't. IMO the pros, cons, knowns, and unknowns of each lead me to believe vaccination is the better bet.

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Straight from the CDC:

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What’s Changed
If you’ve been fully vaccinated:

You can gather indoors with fully vaccinated people without wearing a mask.

You can gather indoors with unvaccinated people from one other household (for example, visiting with relatives who all live together) without masks, unless any of those people or anyone they live with has an increased risk for severe illness from COVID-19.

If you’ve been around someone who has COVID-19, you do not need to stay away from others or get tested unless you have symptoms.
However, if you live in a group setting (like a correctional or detention facility or group home) and are around someone who has COVID-19, you should still stay away from others for 14 days and get tested, even if you don’t have symptoms.

This is what the light at the end of the tunnel looks like. Let's hope people continue to get vaccinated.


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Originally Posted by Chip McDonald
Originally Posted by Joe Muscara
One thing that Chip's scenario leaves out is that some scientists believe that SARS-CoV2 will become less virulent over time

That's hypothetical. Viruses trend towards an optimal expression, which in this case means a longer asymptomatic period and less obvious complications. "Less virulent" is hard to prove if people don't appear to be getting sick, but then 10 years later die of coronary problems, or dementia. That's a more likely hypothetical than it's going to hopefully mutate into something harmless, when there is no evidence to indicate that's the likely outcome.
It is? I don't see my optimistic hypothetical as any more or less likely than your pessimistic one. The hypothetical that "mine" is based upon is that scientists believe that several other viruses that are floating around now were at one point pretty virulent and caused pandemics in human history. No, it's not evidence, it's a possibility based on that it may have happened several times before.

All that being said, I agree we should all get vaccinated, wear masks, not congregate indoors nor in close proximity, etc.. I just want to make it really fucking clear that I'm not advocating waiting for this POS virus to mutate itself into a runny nose. I'm just discussing the possibilities here. If we can get away from having to get vaccinated from this stupid thing, that would be better, but only time will tell.


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Originally Posted by Chip McDonald
Originally Posted by PrairieGuy
All of the doctors and scientist don't agree. Not even close. I could post dozens/hundreds of examples from highly regarded experts around the world but it's probably a waste of time.

A dozen idiots? Maybe. Hundreds? No. And how many doctors on the planet agree?

This is rubbish.
No, it's not rubbish. But I'm not going to argue with someone calls doctors idiots. But maybe I'm wrong and you're a doctor and know better.

Or maybe I was right and it was a waste of time. Have a nice day. I'm outta here...

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I
Originally Posted by PrairieGuy
Originally Posted by Chip McDonald
Originally Posted by PrairieGuy
All of the doctors and scientist don't agree. Not even close. I could post dozens/hundreds of examples from highly regarded experts around the world but it's probably a waste of time.

A dozen idiots? Maybe. Hundreds? No. And how many doctors on the planet agree?

This is rubbish.
No, it's not rubbish. But I'm not going to argue with someone calls doctors idiots. But maybe I'm wrong and you're a doctor and know better.

Or maybe I was right and it was a waste of time. Have a nice day. I'm outta here...

And this is why we're in trouble...no one seems willing to admit that what we know about this virus changes every week. There is now contradictory evidence about the efficacy of vaccines with the variants. Florida, which didn't lock down, isn't as bad off as some other states that did.

I CAN TELL YOU RIGHT NOW IT'S NOT BECAUSE OF FLORIDA'S POLITICS. The sooner people find a rational, repeatable reason why this is so, if in fact it's so and not some kind of statistical anomaly or cover-up, the better off we'll be. Humidity? Heat? Fire ants eat Covid? So many young people it skews the stats? Older, wealthier people got vaccinated first because of campaign contributions? Vitamin D from the sun in plentiful supply? Afro-Cuban music and salsa is awesome?

I don't know. Apparently, neither does anyone else, because they want research to be agenda-driven, not data-driven. Personally, I prefer the Afro-Cuban and salsa music theory.

I'll give you a real good example of why this is so complicated. It took almost a year before researchers knew, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that hydroxychloroquine didn't mitigate Covid-19. The reason that theory started was two-fold: Countries that had used it as a preventative for malaria had lower incidents of Covid-19, and also, the placebo effect seemed to make some people better. Only a year later was it understood they would have gotten better anyway, and the people who took hydroxychloroquine and died would have died anyway.

What seems to be the case is that the populations that needed malaria vaccines skewed younger, and that's why they weren't as affected by Covid.

There's so much we don't know.

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I think that if you read news that features investigative journalism, you might find that they feature articles about scientists who are wary because they don't know....because the virus keeps changing. They're nervous. They're concerned.

But they're up against a lot of people who think they know better than them, who don't trust them, who think believe some idiot on YouTube, who trust conspiracy theories, and people who just plain ol' don't trust anyone.

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Well, I read on the internet that fire ants eat Covid. It's written in the post above you. And since it's on the internet, it must be true.

So, I'm starting a GoFundMe page to import 5 million fire ants into Covid hot spots. We're starting with California and New York. Oh, and you can make the check out directly to me. Minimum contribution is $5,000. Our first $200,000 went to the Craig Anderton Agency for a catchy tagline: "Let's get antsy about Covid!" That was money well spent, in my opinion smile

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But seriously...the latest disturbing news is a study of people who were asymptomatic, and weeks and even months later, started showing major covid systems. This included kids (a third of the kids in the survey). It just gets better, doesn't it? And now we can look forward to a new surge, as people throw caution to the winds.

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I got rid of the fire ants in my yard when I decided to turn my lawn into a meadow. Too bad, I could be filthy rich in fire-ant anti-COVID venom.

I'm not a scientist and everything I say in the next paragraph is complete guesswork inspired by what I personally read on the infallible, always-truthful Internet.

I live in Florida, we were the hot spot in the nation last summer. When we first opened up, which was earlier than most of the rest of the country, we were #1 in cases per population (not bragging). When winter came, other states took our crown away. I believe it's the humidity, the temperature and the available natural vitamin D. But like I said, that is only an opinion from someone who is not a scientist.

Back to the fire ants. They did cause mild anaphylaxis to me once. I had been bitten by these demons for years. One day I was mowing the lawn, someone had tossed a beer bottle out on the road's right-of-way. When I stopped to move it for later recycling, I didn't realize I was standing on a nest. True to their nature, about a zillion (exaggerated) ants crawled on my leg and the foreman (fore-ant?) said (in ant language of course) "Everybody ready? I - 2 - 3 - BITE!"

The immunologist explained that similar to a beekeeper who has been stung all his/her life, all of a sudden my immune system had enough and went on the full attack mode. So what was the cure? Weekly injections of more ant venom. Go figure.

I no longer have a lawn on my half acre except for the almost 300' right-of-way and a small path around the house. I planted ferns under all the trees, and native vegetation elsewhere. It's xeriscape and needs no watering, fertilizing, mowing, or anything else other than what mother nature provides. The bees, rabbits, squirrels, birds, snakes and lizards seem to like it quite a bit. And I feel good knowing I'm helping the ecology.

I planted over 2 dozen trees on the lot, which was bare when I bought the house. 30 years later they are quite large and I've got bird and squirrel nests in the trees. The bonus is I no longer have fire ants (or fire uncles).

Notes ♫


Bob "Notes" Norton
Owner, Norton Music http://www.nortonmusic.com
Style and Fake disks for Band-in-a-Box
The Sophisticats http://www.s-cats.com >^. .^< >^. .^<
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Originally Posted by PrairieGuy
Originally Posted by Chip McDonald
Originally Posted by PrairieGuy
All of the doctors and scientist don't agree. Not even close. I could post dozens/hundreds of examples from highly regarded experts around the world but it's probably a waste of time.

A dozen idiots? Maybe. Hundreds? No. And how many doctors on the planet agree?

This is rubbish.
No, it's not rubbish. But I'm not going to argue with someone calls doctors idiots. But maybe I'm wrong and you're a doctor and know better.

Or maybe I was right and it was a waste of time. Have a nice day. I'm outta here...
I know he's gone but I want to say something in reply anyway.

With no disrespect to medical doctors in general, there are plenty of medical doctors (hereinafter referred to as "doctors") who are not scientists/researchers nor do they seem to understand how science works. I call these kinds of doctors "quacks" when they espouse their theories about how things work based on at best anecdotal "evidence" from their patients ("my patients get better when I give them X") or their own beliefs. Dr. Oz, Dr. Mercola, and Houston's own Dr. Steven Hotze are just a few of these quacks you might encounter.

Scientific research is hard, doing medical research on humans is even harder. You can't subject people to things and confine them to a lab, control every thing they do, etc. There are lots and lots of variables. So, anyone that gives you a simple solution based on something they tried once or a couple of times or "they just don't believe it" should be taken with a big, big grain of salt. All of the scientists (including doctors who do and understand research) know this. They don't hide it. They often say things like, "based on what we know so far." Listen to the way Dr. Fauci often couches what he says in terms like this. He knows how this works, how things can change as we learn more, and he doesn't hide it.


​"How long will it take me to master Aikido piano?" a prospective student asks.

"How long do you expect to live?" is the only respectable response.
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