Need help improving my Crumar Mojo sound

[cedar]

I have been increasingly unhappy with my sound and not sure if the answer is changing settings with my current gear or just getting different gear.

 

Specifically, I play the 2-manual Mojo generally in small clubs/bars (capacity anywhere from 25-200). Most of the time, I am kicking bass in a traditional jazz organ trio format. Sometimes, these groups may veer a little into funk territory, but usually we are playing Jimmy Smith/Wes Montgomery kind of material.

 

My amplification is the Space Station V3 and Behringer sub.

 

My main complaint right now is that I can't achieve enough "clarity" when playing the mid-register on the upper manual. I find the sound overall muddy, to the point where I even have trouble distinguishing notes. I find myself turning up the overall volume to compensate, but that just makes things louder without additional clarity. In fact, reducing the volume a lot (like on ballads) actually enhances clarity, but that's not an option on most tunes.

 

One potential answer is to pull back the drawbars on the lower manual, thereby reducing the bass. But then I fear I'll miss the bottom. Or I suppose I could pull out some more drawbars on the upper manual; but I really like using the standard Jimmy Smith setting.

 

The other answer, I fear, is that I just need to give in finally and purchase a vintage Leslie amp. For all I know, the same issue will happen with the genuine article. I've never heard a clone through a vintage Leslie amp and would love to hear that, if anyone happens to have any recordings.

 

All advice appreciated,

[jamienewman]

I had similar issues with my Mojo dual. I also found that the relative clarity of various registers on the organ was often different from venue to venue, and that the on-board EQ controls on the Mojo were not nearly sufficient to get the thing to sound the way I wanted it to sound. Got myself this inexpensive Behringer 9-band equalizer, and found that it really helped make the board a lot more tweakable:

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/FBQ800--behringer-minifbq-fbq800?&mrkgcl=28&mrkgadid=3308753025&product_id=FBQ800&campaigntype=shopping&campaign=aaShopping%2520-%2520SKU%2520-%2520Studio%2520%26%2520Recording&adgroup=Signal%2520Processing%2520%26%2520500%2520Series%2520-%2520Behringer%2520-%2520fbq800&placement=google&creative=290335234556&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=Cj0KCQiAmZDxBRDIARIsABnkbYSChQZIX29WuY1OgW8wMJCC3WGnsQJ5R-2_AEsyBdD0xd1HSLAolZ8aAoi7EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

It weights next to nothing, and though it feels really cheaply made, it's dirt cheap and get's the job done.

 

I've never played the Mojo with a Leslie, but YouTube has videos of people doing just that:

 

 

 

 

[SamuelBLupowitz]

How much have you played with the generator shape parameter in the deep editor? I"ve found that the difference is subtle in a controlled environment or on headphones, but can make a really big difference in what frequencies are cutting through in a gig environment.

 

I suppose there"s the midrange EQ in the deep editor as well.

[cedar]

How much have you played with the generator shape parameter in the deep editor? I"ve found that the difference is subtle in a controlled environment or on headphones, but can make a really big difference in what frequencies are cutting through in a gig environment.

 

I suppose there"s the midrange EQ in the deep editor as well.

 

Not played with the deep editor at all. I don't really trust myself to do any such tweaking, but maybe I should get over that.

 

[Delaware Dave]

It could be your ampification. Do you use a crossover with the SSV3? If not then you have bass going through the sub and bass going through the SSV3 as well. This could cause perceived muddiness in the midrange. Temporarily remove the sub from the equation and see if the muddiness in the midrange clears up. Yes you wont get the bass you need to kick pedals but the experiment is to understand if the sub setup is causing the clarity issue. The other options are the generator curve, and the 22 organs in the mojo. The 22 organs are all different sounding, start going through the different organs, you'll find that they indeed all sound different. I'n not sure which one I'm using but I think it may be the 1961 A101 model. Also try different amplification. A leslie speaker is a lo-fi speaker and I find that the organ sounds best through an old keyboard amp (Peavey KB300) than it does going through my EV ELX112P. The KB300 is not as bright and makes the organ sound more like an organ than the EV does.

[Mitch Towne]

The different organ models make a TON of difference. Have you tried any of the others?

[timwat]

It could be your ampification.

 

+1.

 

While the SSv3 does the spatial thing that nothing else does, it's not FRFR. I've never owned a Mojo, but if you have add'l amplification to play with, you might try using a powered PA speaker (or similar) in conjunction with the SSv3 and see if you like the results.

 

My best results were yielded by pairing my DXR8 and the SSv3 - stacked them with the front baffles aligned, fed the full-range "sub out" into the DXR and balanced volume to taste.

 

You might like the results.

 

 

[John Tweed]

I had similar problems. Solved them by flipping the Mojo and going to a Legend Live. To my ears the Mojo"s rotary and overdrive are slightly better. OTOH by the time I"ve spent as much time tweaking the Legend as I did with the Mojo it"ll probably come out even. In the meantime the Legend just sounds clearer to me and its onboard eq, especially the mids knob which the Mojo doesn"t have, means I can always dial up a good sound.

[cedar]

To answer a few questions above:

 

I have not tried the different organ models, but I suppose I should (especially if anyone has a suggestion for a particular model that might improve this issue). Also, the chain is this way: Mojo into a small mixer; then into the SS3, and then into the sub.

 

I'll start doing some experimenting, taking the sub out of the equation, etc. I have some PA speakers I can try and do a comparison with.

 

Thanks all.

[Jazz+]

The MT B3 organ model is the best, imo. I use a pair of Fender amps, a Fender tube amp for the right channel and a Fender solid state bass amp for the left. I am not sure a space station is ideal. I dial back the Percussion level, C3 level and especially the rotary levels to improve clarity.

[SamuelBLupowitz]

There are some really useful, in-depth explanations of how to maximize the use of the deep editing features in the Mojo without mucking up the sound over in the GSi/DMC/Crumar Facebook group. Stuff like that is the only reason I continue to tolerate Facebook...

 

That said, I"d say experiment with different organ models before any tweaking further down the chain. People tend to gravitate toward the B3 and A100 'MT' models (named for, and measured by, our own Mitch Towne, of course). I"ve been using his A100 myself, after gigging and recording with a few of the others since I got the Mojo last fall.

 

I won"t discount any of the comments about amplification either, especially if that"s less of a headache for you to play with.

[TomKittel]

I have been increasingly unhappy with my sound and not sure if the answer is changing settings with my current gear or just getting different gear.

 

 

My main complaint right now is that I can't achieve enough "clarity" when playing the mid-register on the upper manual. I find the sound overall muddy, to the point where I even have trouble distinguishing notes.

 

 

I never played a Mojo. But I hear that the Mojo engine is based on the same software as VB3 II which sounds somewhat muddy too. Just recently I compared the VB3 II with the IK B3-X. What a difference! Just grab the free demo version and compare yourself. If you like it you could easily use your Mojo as a organ masterkeyboard for the IOS version of B3-X.

 

JMTC

 

[Adan]

I played many gigs through a Motion Sound KP500SN and never found the mid-range lacking in clarity. I'm the farthest thing from an amplication expert, but maybe the SSN+sub arrangement be the source of your discontent? What if instead of the Berhinger you used a more full range speaker, like the Yamaha so many people seem to like. You'd lose some bass, so maybe in an organ trio that's not an option.

 

The KP500SN finally proved too heavy for me. I'm still thinking about how to replace it but my gigs lately haven't required more than a stage monitor, so I'm taking my time. Another Motion Sound seems likely.