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Re: 7ths Chords [Re: DocPate] #2986962
04/26/19 12:46 PM
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Hey, it's your money.


If you play cool, you are cool.
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Re: 7ths Chords [Re: Fred_C] #2987090
04/27/19 07:49 AM
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OK, so let's say...

I wish to buy an LP, but don't wish to pay thousands of dollars for the supposedly "poor quality" newer instruments, so which year would any consider a good "cut-off" year for purchasing a "previously owned" model? idk
Whitefang


I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
Re: 7ths Chords [Re: whitefang] #2987127
04/27/19 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted By: whitefang
OK, so let's say...

I wish to buy an LP, but don't wish to pay thousands of dollars for the supposedly "poor quality" newer instruments, so which year would any consider a good "cut-off" year for purchasing a "previously owned" model? idk
Whitefang


I think Gibson began to have quality issues around 2010. In 2009 or thereabouts, they had the "wood" issue and spent a lot of bucks to try to defend their position. It was around this time that they began to have financial problems and as a result traded the typical Gibson quality for more profits. So, I probably would opt for a pre-2010 guitar if I were to look for a used one.

Re: 7ths Chords [Re: DocPate] #2987184
04/28/19 01:37 AM
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Originally Posted By: DocPate
I think Gibson began to have quality issues around 2010. In 2009 or thereabouts, they had the "wood" issue and spent a lot of bucks to try to defend their position. It was around this time that they began to have financial problems and as a result traded the typical Gibson quality for more profits. So, I probably would opt for a pre-2010 guitar if I were to look for a used one.


Try long before that. My 1996 Les Paul had some SERIOUS quality issues and never should have left the factory the way it was, but I got it effectively brand-new for a used price considerably less than a third of its list-price at the time and I got most of what I wanted in a Les Paul.

But decades before that, a company called Norlin had acquired the Gibson brand, and wreaked all manner of crap substandard quality on Gibson's materials and design in their flagship lines... I thought that this was well known...


Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

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Re: 7ths Chords [Re: Caevan O'Shite] #2987204
04/28/19 08:03 AM
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OK. Thanks, I think....
hitt
wink
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Re: 7ths Chords [Re: Caevan O'Shite] #2987242
04/28/19 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: Caevan O'Shite
But decades before that, a company called Norlin had acquired the Gibson brand, and wreaked all manner of crap substandard quality on Gibson's materials and design in their flagship lines...


Quite analogous to Fender's CBS period.


Scott Fraser
Re: 7ths Chords [Re: whitefang] #2987243
04/28/19 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted By: whitefang
OK, so let's say...
I wish to buy an LP, but don't wish to pay thousands of dollars for the supposedly "poor quality" newer instruments, so which year would any consider a good "cut-off" year for purchasing a "previously owned" model? idk
Whitefang


What I would recommend would be getting a PRS, since I feel they've perfected what Gibson started, design-wise. And apparently Gibson felt threatened enough by PRS's competition that they sued when PRS came out with a single cutaway LP-like design.
Also Eastman has an LP design guitar, which I haven't played, but if everything else which Eastman has made holds true, it will be a superior alternative to the Gibson. Ditto Heritage.


Scott Fraser
Re: 7ths Chords [Re: Scott Fraser] #2987427
04/30/19 07:59 AM
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All fine ideas, sure, but.....

"LP like" isn't really an "LP". wink
Whitefang


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Re: 7ths Chords [Re: whitefang] #2987452
04/30/19 10:39 AM
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I owned a Guild Bluesbird AAA for a couple of years. It was designed on the LP formula of a solid maple top on a mahogany body. Somewhat different in that the body was "chambered" rather than solid. So, it was considered a "semi-hollow" design. Ditto the Carvin Sh550 I owned. Both guitars were essentially shaped like a LP. Both were gorgeous instruments
And both were under $2K.

If I were interested in a Les Paul, I would probably buy an Epiphone for around $700, upgrade the pickups for around $250 and wind up with a nice LP for around $1K.

On a related topic, there are several videos on YouTube which compare an Epi Sheraton II with an ES335 and videos detailing the Epi ES335 PRO. It looks and sounds really nice.

I have no interest in owning a $4K+ Gibson.


If you play cool, you are cool.
Re: 7ths Chords [Re: Fred_C] #2987473
04/30/19 12:08 PM
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I have only owned 2 LP's. The LP Deluxe I bought in 72 and wish I had never sold back around '84. And, the LP Classic I own now that I bought about 2 years ago to finally replace the one I sold. I am more than happy with the one I own now and it cost me $1,600 new. It did have a quality control issue with the output jack as did my Epiphone ES-175. I had both of them fixed by my tech for $40 bucks. cool

Last edited by Larryz; 04/30/19 12:25 PM.

Take care, Larryz
Re: 7ths Chords [Re: Larryz] #2987639
05/01/19 08:46 AM
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If the only quality issues with the newer LPs is electronics, that sounds like an easy( albeit not really all that cheap) fix. Then the problem becomes finding a good enough and reliable enough tech to help with it? wink
Whitefang


I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
Re: 7ths Chords [Re: whitefang] #2987644
05/01/19 09:22 AM
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Re the apparent shift here from discussion of musical interval effects, all companies can have quality control issues at any time.
This relates a bit to the concurrent "boutique or brand" thread.

In the (actually increasing) range of product, uh, producers in the modern world there's in fact less diff between some items (So, yes, "LP-like can be more LP than an LP") but still a flawed item can occur.
My perennial advice on acquisitions applies.

Further (& a bit controversially) I'll assert that between what are viewed a totally diff types of instruments, those diffs are often psychological as much as actual.
There are ways to make very diverse gear combinations sound like each other.


d=halfnote
Re: 7ths Chords [Re: d / halfnote] #2992929
06/06/19 04:13 PM
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-| - | - | - | - 1st string
-| 0 | - | - | -
-| - | - | 0 | -
-| - | 0 | - | -
-| - | - | 0 | -
-| - | - | - | - 6th string


-| - | - | 0 | - 1st string
-| 0 | - | - | -
-| - | - | 0 | -
-| - | 0 | - | -
-| - | - | - | -
-| - | - | - | - 6th string

Back to 7th chords...here's something I discovered yesterday while fooling around with some lyrics and chords to an old 1929 Fats Waller tune. The top formation is one everyone is familiar with. The bottom one is located within the same 4 frets and can be used interchangeably with the top one. You can use it to get more of the treble string sound when using 4 note chords. You could go with a 9th chord instead of the bottom one, but I kind of like the sound...I haven't been using the bottom one, but I can tell it is now going to be part of my chord repertoire...you can also switch back and forth between the two formations by just moving two of your fingers (i.e. ring and pinky). The root is found on the 2nd and 5th strings... cool

Last edited by Larryz; 06/06/19 04:28 PM.

Take care, Larryz
Re: 7ths Chords [Re: Larryz] #2992964
06/06/19 07:39 PM
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Yeah, adds back the missing 5th in that voicing. More interesting than having a 5th in there is the possibility of grabbing a flat 5 or flat 13 by moving up or down a fret on the E string. I'll have to try that grip when I get home to a guitar.


Scott Fraser
Re: 7ths Chords [Re: Scott Fraser] #2992990
06/06/19 09:35 PM
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Yeah Scott, let me know what you think when you get home...can be used in some tasty chord leads too. I'm thinking Brother Fred is already on top of the idea... thu


Take care, Larryz
Re: 7ths Chords [Re: Larryz] #2993033
06/07/19 01:12 AM
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I like it. It lets you get a higher voice in the chord without having to move up the neck. And moving up a fret on that voice gets you an augmented chord, so it's kind of two for the price of one.


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Re: 7ths Chords [Re: Scott Fraser] #2993069
06/07/19 09:39 AM
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Additionally, if you lower any note in a diminished 7th shape, you get a dominant 7th shape.


If you play cool, you are cool.
Re: 7ths Chords [Re: Fred_C] #2993088
06/07/19 11:32 AM
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@ Scott, +1 on the higher voice and at my age it's easy to remember, find and play anywhere on the fret board LOL! It makes a nice replacement for that open D7 chord too! cool

@ Fred, thanks for that tip! I find myself using more diminished and augmented chords these days... cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: 7ths Chords [Re: Larryz] #2993114
06/07/19 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted By: Larryz
@ Scott, +1 on the higher voice and at my age it's easy to remember, find and play anywhere on the fret board LOL! It makes a nice replacement for that open D7 chord too! cool

@ Fred, thanks for that tip! I find myself using more diminished and augmented chords these days... cool



@Bro. Larry,

They're handy little buggers. Dim7 chord inverts every 3 frets. Aug chord inverts every 5 frets. Opens up lots of possibilities


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Re: 7ths Chords [Re: Fred_C] #2993121
06/07/19 01:54 PM
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Thanks Bro Fred, Yes I knew about the repeats on the Dim's and I'm just now starting to use the concept when picking out some little leads using these along with other chords at the different fretboard positions. I haven't moved the Augs around as much as I have just used them in relation to the charted chords I'm using in certain songs. Will give it a try! thu


Take care, Larryz
Re: 7ths Chords [Re: Fred_C] #2993124
06/07/19 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: Fred_C
They're handy little buggers. Dim7 chord inverts every 3 frets. Aug chord inverts every 5 frets. Opens up lots of possibilities


So, the same Dim7 fingering/voicing/grip moved-up a 'Step-and-a-Half' becomes an inversion of the first... ? And the same Augmented fingering/voicing/grip moved-up a 'Two-and-a-Half-Steps' becomes an inversion of the first... ?


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Re: 7ths Chords [Re: Caevan O'Shite] #2993126
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@Caev,

That'correct.


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Re: 7ths Chords [Re: Fred_C] #2993149
06/07/19 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted By: Fred_C
@Caev,

That'correct.


(Fred- Please note, my previous post has been edited)

Cool. I'll hafta fiddle around widdatt. cool


Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

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Re: 7ths Chords [Re: Caevan O'Shite] #2993151
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The dim7 chord is "magical". Since it is built on "stacked" minor thirds (1,b3,b5,bb7), any note in the chord can be considered the "root". Hence, each diminished 7th chord has 4 different names. In addition, each dim7 chord generates 4 Dominant7b9 chords and each Dominant7b9 chord generates 4 dim7 chords.

Pretty cool stuff!


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Re: 7ths Chords [Re: Fred_C] #2993165
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Originally Posted By: Fred_C
The dim7 chord is "magical". Since it is built on "stacked" minor thirds (1,b3,b5,bb7), any note in the chord can be considered the "root". Hence, each diminished 7th chord has 4 different names. In addition, each dim7 chord generates 4 Dominant7b9 chords and each Dominant7b9 chord generates 4 dim7 chords.

Pretty cool stuff!


I do believe that I'd essentially accidentally run across that phenomenon 'by ear' without realizing the mechanics of it, running sequences of dim7 grips skipping up the neck. I'd tell people that I was playing "The Warner Brothers' Riff", and that it was a theme for Wile E. Coyote going farther and farther up a steep grade or the like till he fell off a cliff or was sling-shot into the sky over a canyon (at which point I'd rapidly slide all the back down the fretboard and make a sort of a percussive crashing noise). I think.


Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

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Re: 7ths Chords [Re: Caevan O'Shite] #2993221
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Sounds like fun, Caev.


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