Question about certain used keys. Yamaha - Roland

[tedsorvino]

Hi everyone.

After a lot of experimentation around shops and friends places I decided that I would like to add a softer stage piano for vst controller duties (and the odd jam and practice with its own sounds). i already own an M- audio Hammer 88 (and other synth action keys), which is really good for what it is. Medelli K6 action is very versatile, but there are some issues with my playing. I tend to play a lot around the end of the keys (because of finger size and lack of technique) and the action becomes stiffer over there and I think the keys are not long enough for me anyways.

 

To cut a long story short I fell in love with Yamaha CP 73 and I really liked Juno DS88. Nord Stage 73 semi weighted was really good for me too. Even if it's semi weighted it feels great. Better than any other semi I've played. I have to admit I love my action light. But I like the balance and feel that weighted actions give. So a light weighted action is what I love. Or a heavy semi weighted I guess.

And CP 73 is exactly that. 73 weighted keys and not so long ones. But they feel really great if you like a light weighted action. Excellent sounds and a fantastic Nord style of interface (my favorite). Brilliant keyboard altogether.

Juno may not have such a light action but it feels very very good. Sounds good too, but the interface is much more like an electronic toy in my eyes. But the keyboard action for me is better than any FP series I played (FP 90 including). And much more portable and with loads more connectivity for studio work. I didn't try any RD.

 

The thing is that since I haven't got the means to buy something brand new CP 73 is out of the question for the time being, because there is none in the local or european used market. And I doubt it wil become readily available in the next couple of years. But people who know more, say that it has a similar action to S70xs and Mo8 which I can find easily within my price range.

 

So what do I choose for more or less the same price around 500 - 700 euros? A used S70xs, a used Mo8 or a used Juno DS 88?

I have to add that for 900 I can have a Nord Stage 2 73 semi (but I think it's an overkill for the time being since I focus on pianos and I'm not a live musician at all).

 

I also have to admit that having a workstation is absolutely pointless for me and all these old obsolete digital electronic sounds are not my cup of tea - the least I can say. But the key actions are really important and some piano sounds (acoustic and electric help). And since I can only find this magnificent Yamaha Balanced Hammer action - or at least a very similar one - on these workstation keys on the used market....then I have not a lot of choice. Juno also has some "modern" gimmicks I absolutely dislike (batteries, a lot of plastic) and it's also a workstation - good or bad it doesn't matter.

Connectivity is brilliant especially on S70xs. Mo8 and Juno are good too. The thing with 00s keys is that their market value will only descent and maybe non existent soon, juno on the other hand will maintain a decent market value for the next 5-10 years.

 

Any suggestions on choice? What would be an upper price limit you would put for each one of these boards for a really well maintained used one?

 

Thanks in advance

[stoken6]

If you like the Nord 73 action for piano (many don't!) then how about an Electro?

 

Otherwise, for a "light weighted action" look at Kawai ES100 or ES110. That's an entry-level stage piano with a limited sound range, but if you "focus on piano" it might be ideal.

 

I also found the Casio actions to be light and playable. The new PX-S action has a very short key, so hard to play at the back. Think about PX-160/360/560.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[tedsorvino]

Sorry Mike. But I don't ask for any other suggestions. I just need opinions on those particular models I mention on the OP.

Thanks anyways.

 

PS. My opinion on ES 110 is that it's a brilliant action but far from a pro board. No way a good controller. No velocity layers and many other midi capabilities. More of a great plastic toy or student board. Casio PX 5S is the only pro Casio PX and not of my liking. Not a better action than Hammer 88 IMHO. But that's beyond the scope of my post anyways.

[AnotherScott]

If its main use is as a VST controller (with just "the odd jam and practice with its own sounds"), one question is how you intend to call up different VST patches. Do you want the board to have front panel buttons that can send specified Program Changes to your computer? Or are you doing patch selection some other way, such that you don't need that function in the board? Similarly, if your VST patches may include splits/layers, do you want your board to have front panel volume knobs/sliders that will let you independently adjust the levels of the split/layered sounds, or is that not a function you need in the board?

[tedsorvino]

Thanks Scott for your input. Even if I have another dedicated controller for program changes, with loads of sliders, buttons and knobs, I think front panel buttons and sliders is always a good option. But no way my main buying concern.

Nowadays all these are more relevant in a live situation I think, since they can happen inside any modern DAW. As I mentioned before I'm really happy with my Hammer 88. A very simple and very well constructed weighted piano controller.

The only thing I need is an even better, light (weighted) keybed that feels great to me, on a solid board, reliable connectivity, good midi functionality and some really good classic sounds on the side as a plus. Of course a nord style of interface - like the CP 73 or Nord- would be a different story.

[AnotherScott]

Okay, then, since the over-riding thing that matters is the action, and since the only options are S70xs, MO8, or Juno DS 88 (and all are of an acceptable travel weight, and all have workable built-in sounds), the question is, is there any chance you'd have the opportunity to play either of the Yamahas prior to purchase? Because those actions (BHE) are not identical to the CP73 action (BHS) even in nomenclature, and I would by no means assume that your experience with the CP would carry over to how you'd feel about these others. If you can't play them prior to purchase, then by default, I'd go with the Roland, because it is the only one you KNOW you will like the feel of.

[tedsorvino]

Very good thinking Scott.

Unfortunatelly it's quite improbable to be able to play one at least from my group of musician friends. I may find some really experienced pro musicians who may have first hand experience with something from that series of mo-motifs-s 70-90xs with balanced action, from their past decade days.

The only objection I've got is that Roland is my second favorite action and I quite disliked the panel with the pads and the batteries and the plastic construction is not ideal and shouts modern toy. And on the other hand possibly the Yamaha may be

closer to my favorite action, their panel seem way more pro and their stylish metal constructions are pro grade.

Sound wise as far as I've listened all have a ton of useless sounds (especially the yamahas) and few really good classic ones. I was never a fan of their DX 7 piano sounds (and I owned one 20 years ago). By reading all of their manuals the midi capabilities of all are more than decent. Roland has an edge there because it's a more modern machine. But the connectivity and the control capabilities of S70xs is beyond most current controllers. Mo8 can be found easier, so the prices can go quite low.

What is a good current price for each one of these models in the used market?

[AnotherScott]

What is a good current price for each one of these models in the used market?

Check eBay and Reverb's "Sold Items" searches, which will tell you what they have actually gone for lately (which is much more relevant than what people may be asking).

[Ledbetter]

Buy the Nord for $900. No contest. Visit the Nord forum and the factory site. You"ll never be at a loss for the sound you want. Nord has a huge library of downloadable sounds. Even if you don"t need all that keyboard now, you"ll have lots of time before you need another. You"re welcome.

[tedsorvino]

Not a bad suggestion Ledbetter, but I have to admit that I was never attracted to hammond and drawbar organs as a player (I can take my farfisas) - I 've played and recorded with all the original ones. I do prefer electric and upright pianos (not even grands). And that particular Nord, even if I 've played it and feels brilliant for semiweighted action key, is really focused on organ players. Yes the price is good and it's a really pro quality instrument, owned by a fantastic player - close friend of mine, but I think it is more of an "exotic" board for not gigging casual piano players like me.

I mean firstly I need a better solid, light - weighted keyboard with piano feel and sounds ( and as I mentioned before, as many connectivity options as possible for studio use), than the one I already own, then it may be something even closer to a good acoustic piano ( a Kawai style heavier thing) and then may be something "exotic" with semi weighted keys for a different flavor and new sonic experiences - I may even grow liking playing organs till then, since I love listening to them played by fantastic players. But not for now I think.