How limited am I by my genes?

[Gruupi]

Very good topic Doctor.

 

I feel that everything we do we are going to have certain limitations. If its speed or dexterity, some people just have more ability than others. If its musical ear, then some people just don't have it, similar to some poeple just flat out not being as smart as others.

 

Maybe not everyone can be a musician, even though I would like to think so. I have friends that have played for years but can not play anything in time or in tune or really even have a concept for what that means. Of course I also know many people who give up after a month, a year or five years because they don't think they are the worlds greatest guitarist. Some people think of playing the best like winning something, but in reality all art and intellectual endeavors can't be measured like that.

 

I feel that most musicians are alot like me. They have a lifelong strong desire to listen to and play music. If your in it to get famous or get chicks, that certainly can be a motivation, but most of us just love music. We don't have the most dexterity altough it would have been nice to have that naturally. In most other things I am a bit of a klutz. But I work hard and work smart to be better.

 

So to me desire is as important or more than raw talent. But you have to have some of both like Guitarzan said. You have to be able to do some things with your fingers and that does require a decent amount of dexterity. You then have to develop the technical skills by practicing. You also have to develop your ear by listening and studying.

 

I am sure there are some prodigies out there that will have it easier than others, but even they have to work at it. But if everyone had Mozart's genes then it would be easy to compare. I don't think it would be physically possible for everyone to play as fast as say Malmsteen, he is gifted in that regard. I know he had to work at it, but he has the genetics. So even though I don't have Mozart's or Malsteen's gifts, that doesn't mean I can't be a fine guitar player. Not everyone can be the "best". Not everyone can play at all. But if you have some talent then the more desire you have the better.

[henrysb3]

Ted summed up most of my thoughts - you should listen, listen, listen. Are you taking lessons? I took from a jazz guy for just a couple of months - all I could afford at the time - but those lessons added the flat pick dimension to my playing. I still mostly fingerpick, but those lessons gave me the key to that skill. A few years ago, I spotted an 8 X 12 ad for a piano and/or vocal teacher on the gym's bulletin board. I had decided to save space in my spending to take lessons for a year, but it was well spent for many reasons. It helps to have other ears analyse what you're doing.

 

One big thing I learned from practice was to get it right before you get it fast. Make sure your phrases contain music, not just notes. My trumpet teacher, a big band kind of player (compete with pencil-thin moustache) was big on tone and I continue to thank him. Music is a series of tones and no matter how fast you play them, make sure they are the tones you want to hear. We've been playing "Comfortably Numb" for quite a while now, and our lead guitarist has found that beautiful crying sound that David Gilmour wrings out in the first solo (behind D and A major). It's not a machine gun of notes, it's a flowing rush of emotion. The second (Bm) solo, has a darker quality.

 

For further thought, go to Neil Young's famous one-note solo from "Cinnamon Girl". I loved that song for a long time before I realized the solo had a very long space of one note picked at varying rates.

 

As fast as genetics is progressing, we may know whether nature or nurture makes the biggest difference in our abilities. Oh, man, my apologies to some of the Kansas school board, we all know you must have intelligent digits to create complex music. I have an idea: The Intelligent Digits Network - promoting the idea that music is so beautiful and complex, it must have been created by Intelligent Digits.

[Dr. Ellwood]

Right Neil, I guess I was just talking about his wider public notoriety much the same as Glen Campbell.

[Dr. Ellwood]

QUOTE: by FantasticSound: " but I bet some of the players you mention would hold both of them in high regard as players.

 

I KNOW I sure do!!

[PBBPaul]

My belief is that the only thing limiting any of us is desire - or lack thereof - and how we prioritize that desire. I'm reminded of a show that's have been on TLC lately. It features a woman with half a body leading a fully functional life. Or a video that made its way around email recently of a woman with no arms leading a fully normal life. These women want - no, need to live life. When one has the need to play a certain way, they do.

 

Personally, I'd love to be able to play like Joe Pass, Robben Ford, Jimi Hendrix, SRV, EVH, Alvin Lee, Andres Segovia, Dick Dale and Junior Brown all rolled into one. Given enough time and ambition, I have no doubt that I could do it. But life is full of balances and my top priority is my family and becoming a better player is down the list. I'm fairly comfortable with how I play and my ability to communicate through my guitar so I have no real need to be better.

[skipclone 1]

Well it`s great to have a positive outlook but-I`m sure you`ve seen movies with Milla Jovovich or Kiera Knightly knocking the stuffing out of 200 pound brigands. That`s why we have movies, because positivity will take you so far and then biology has a say in it too. Is that more important than desire, no I don`t think it is but that doesn`t change the laws of physics.

[Gifthorse]

how are you limited by your genius? I dunno, but you have alot of nerve talkin about how smart you are...

[Gifthorse]

just kiddin. heh

[Eric Iverson]

I think of Jim Hall - he realized he'd never play like Wes or Tal Farlow, so he forged a beautiful style of his own!

 

Or Miles when he was young didn't have the dexterity or range of some other trumpeters, so he did the same!

 

More than one way to skin a cat... of course, skinning cats doesn't have a lot to do with guitar playing, at least where I come from!

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Originally posted by Eric Iverson:

More than one way to skin a cat... of course, skinning cats doesn't have a lot to do with guitar playing, at least where I come from!

You can make classical guitar strings out of 'em.

[picker]

Tedly, guitar ain't golf or basketball, and the things you have to be able to for it don't require exceptional athleticism. Enough of a musical ear to know one note from another, enough fingers to hold a pick in one hand (or strum without a pick) and push strings against frets with the other (or both) and enough hard-edged desire to play well that sacrificing a lot of time to it doesn't seem like a sacrifice, and you will get as good as or better than most of the folks you see playing.

[The Doctor]

To fantasticsound and all:

 

Thanks for all the input on this topic.

 

Simon & Lightfoot - "They may not be the pinnacle of technical virtuosity, but I bet some of the players you mention would hold both of them in high regard as players."

 

They both do very well on the rhythm side of course, and since they use their guitars when they write their beautiful compositions, they are obviously adept to a level which sounds good to them. The "best" player at my HS could do Smoke on The Water and Classical Gas (dating myself here), but ask him to sit in with a mandoliner and a banjo picker and he was lost, whereas I could make myself presentable.

 

But I am thinking more of trying to improve on the "lead" or "side" side if you will. I wanna play the guitar breaks on One Time One Night, AND Herschel's part on South Of The Border AND Black Mountain Rag AND Oklahoma Borderline.

 

WHich leads me into the next question. How much of my progress will actually be progression? Once I can do a couple of Herschel's riffs, will Hidalgo's be easier to learn? Can David listen to a new selection from Albert Lee at noon and be playing it by sundown? I guess I would like to be able to answer a local cover band's ad for "lead guitarist wanted". As it stands, I can listen to pretty much anything and pick up the chords and strum along and do little tiny fills, but when time comes for the guitar break, silence fills the air.

 

Whadya think?

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by rw2003:

Regarding the John Jorgensen comment that he "makes his axe ring like a bell and there are many like him." GP had a recent write-up on him (discussing his Django influence). I have to think that he is blessed with a bit more talent than the avg guitar player and has put in a very significant amount of effort/work to develop it. Yes there are numerous other guitar players with similar abilities but I don't think there are many, especailly compared to the entire guitar playing population!

Yes, I didn't mean to belittle Jorgensen with faint praise. He is obviously a rare talent. But on the DRB CD I was listening to, his licks were nothing that 100 (1000?) guys (and girls like Nina Gerber) could do. That gives me hope, until I actually try to play said licks...

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by fantasticsound:

Originally posted by ellwood:

Ya and Vince's fame came from his singing and writing not from his wonderful guitar playing skills! ...

Not exactly true, Lee. Vince certainly became a household name because of his record deal as an artist, but he was very well known as a session player long before either his songwriting or singing put him out front. This goes back to his days in Oklahoma with buddies like Bobby Clark, an amazing mandolin player. He was strictly background with Pure Prarie League, then it was his guitar playing that put him in a position to become an artist.

He seems to be backsliding, in a good way . I have been hoping that with all that cash and Amy, he'd leave the crooning to Clint Black and go back to rockin', and there are signs that he might be ready. He tore up Borderline at the Clapton Fest, and has been playing with Crowell and some other Music City oddballs on some more up tempo stuff. Back to your roots at mid-life, Vince! We'll take you back!

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Originally posted by Picker:

...Enough of a musical ear to know one note from another, enough fingers to hold a pick in one hand (or strum without a pick) and push strings against frets with the other (or both) and enough hard-edged desire to play well that sacrificing a lot of time to it doesn't seem like a sacrifice, and you will get as good as or better than most of the folks you see playing.

There's a GP Angus Young interview from somewhere in the 80s where he says that, if you can stamp your feet and clap your hands in time, you can learn to play guitar.

 

I don't quite follow the importance of stamping (unless it's Flamenco), but I bet Angus knows more about guitars than I do.

[ihategarybettman]

How limited are you by your genes? Not as limited as you would be if you had my genes.

[learningguitar]

Originally posted by caprae:

I'm listening to some instruction videos by John Heussenstamm

 

(http://www.guitarschool.net/teacher_show.asp?teacher_id=3)

 

This guy can absolutely tear up a jazz guitar. Plays it like its a shredding machine. He said that after graduating high school, he was going to get out of rock and make a living as a jazz musician. He went to Mexico to live in off the land in the woods and play jazz guitar from morning until night until he felt he was good enough to earn a living. He ended up getting sick AFTER 3 MONTHS and his brother had to rescue him. Then in his first jazz band, they all went to a midwestern state and practiced 8 hours a day. He would then play on his own for the rest of the day. This lasted a couple of months.

 

So I'm guessing that time with a slow disciplined course of study is what it takes to be great.

Speaking of John Heussenstamm, here's a link to a some songs he did at a live concert in summer of '05 in Laguna Beach. He gave me his permission to freely distribute them. "Red House" is my favorite:

 

John Heussenstamm Live (right-click to download)

[Dr. Ellwood]

I great player for sure! I really like what his keyboard player is doing (gettin some good ideas here) but ya know what ....he at times does what I do, in the jam loose track of the BLUES, ya it goes away turns into something else then comes back. I try not to do that, but it is a concious effort all the time. Enjoyed it allot! thanks for the link, I'm listening more and gonna have my keyboard player listen to some certain things I liked from the keyboards..Great!