My stolen guitars

[Dr. Ellwood]

The ONE good thing that happened dealing with The Canadian Border Authorities was we had to have a very detailed spread sheet of everything we owned and receipts or validated proof of ownership that was being transported into Canada. Every now and then even though we have a work permit in any vehicle we transport equipment, we will be asked to unload enough so they can do a physical inventory of everything.

[skipclone 1]

Originally posted by Caputo:

Cragier7-

 

It matters. If you`re paying taxes to support these guys they should be doing their best for you.

It is well established that the police and government have no duty to protect people.

 

firearmsandliberty.com/kasler-protection.html

 

District Court of D.C. stated that it is a "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981).

 

I have friends who are cops and Sheriff's, and they have a sense of duty, but know that there is no actual tangible duty

 

Think about it

 

If you hire a Security company to watch your buldings btween 12a.m an 8.am, and this is put in writing, then that contract is admissible as court evidence that a duty exists.

 

If your place gets broken into between those hours, then there is proof that you have been damaged as a result of the duty breach?

 

How do we know a duty existed?

 

---The contract

 

No such duty is put in writing or in contract or codified anywhere in your local, state, and/or federal statutes

 

No contract, no case

 

If your car gets broken into, can you sue the cops for not protecting your car?

 

Why Not?

 

How come the families who tried to sue the GOV during 911, could not sue?

 

They could only sue the airlines.

 

Why?

 

Because your airline ticket is a contract that you will have a safe flight from point A to point B

 

The plane hijackings coupled w/ the tickets constituted proof that a duty existed, that there was a breach, and that damages resulted from that breach

 

That's why they went after the airlines

 

My apologies if this has shaken the bushes, but should you disagree; your argument is with the courts on this issue, not me

 

Never claimed legal contract as the basis. Your taxes support these guys. Getting nothing out of it in return other than a possible sobriety check is a fundamental ripoff. And if you can afford to hire private security, losing one or two guitars is probably not the end of the world. Just looking at the firearms link you cite, I`m guessing this is an argument in favor of people loading up on guns. None for me thanks.

[Tone Taster]

Originally posted by skipclone 1:

Never claimed legal contract as the basis. Your taxes support these guys.[/QB]

So could you demonstrate a direct connection from that tax money paid to an actual concrete duty in the same way as our security guard analogy?

 

Originally posted by skipclone 1:

[/QB]Getting nothing out of it in return other than a possible sobriety check is a fundamental ripoff

You still have the burden of proving that "the taxes which support them" goes toward a concrete, established duty that is writing and can be entered in as court evidence which would meet the criteria for the Federal Rules Of Evidence.

Your position that they owe us something because we pay taxes is based more on a philosophical or hypothetical premise rather than one rooted in Facts and Law.

 

.

Originally posted by skipclone 1:

Just looking at the firearms link you cite, I`m guessing this is an argument in favor of people loading up on guns. None for me thanks.

The communities which didn't surrend their firearms to the Nazi's were those ones who didn't go to Auschwitz either

Other Dictators such as Stalin and Mao Tse Tung employed mass involuntary disarmament before they went on a mass genocidal rampage.

 

Is it your position, then, that some people should be authorized to have firearms and others shouldn't?

Or is it one out of a voluntary premise in that it is something you'd rather not be involved per your "not for me" post.

 

Private Gun Ownership is a great safeguard against government imposed tyranny

[Steevo]

Oh man! I NEVER thought that would happen. That is very cool. Some good cop work there for sure.

 

Glad you're getting them back.

[LPCustom]

Originally posted by Caputo:

The communities which didn't surrend their firearms to the Nazi's were those ones who didn't go to Auschwitz either

Other Dictators such as Stalin and Mao Tse Tung employed mass involuntary disarmament before they went on a mass genocidal rampage.

 

Is it your position, then, that some people should be authorized to have firearms and others shouldn't?

Or is it one out of a voluntary premise in that it is something you'd rather not be involved per your "not for me" post.

 

Private Gun Ownership is a great safeguard against government imposed tyranny

This has turned political. Let's put a cap on this. If you guys want to discuss that, then please PM each other.

[Dazed]

LPC - Congrats Kudos to the detective as well.

 

There was a guy on the Carvin boards that found his stolen guitar on ebay several years after the fact.

 

The seller had purchased it sometime earlier and when it was identified as the stolen guitar, he had no issues returning it. He could have raised a stink and been an ass about it but being a musician, he completely understood about losing a cherished instrument.

 

Glad things worked out for you.

[Bluesape]

Great news - hope they fry the bastards!

[caprae]

LP - sounds like they could have set up a sting at that place. Didn't you originally say you put them in the cab of a pickup and went in to get the third guitar? An that many others have been stolen from the same place. Sounds like a great place to set up a sting operation.

 

I'm suprised that place hasn't put a fence around its parking lot and video cameras to watch it since there have been so many thefts.

 

Congratulations!

[LPCustom]

Originally posted by caprae:

LP - sounds like they could have set up a sting at that place. Didn't you originally say you put them in the cab of a pickup and went in to get the third guitar? An that many others have been stolen from the same place. Sounds like a great place to set up a sting operation.

 

I'm suprised that place hasn't put a fence around its parking lot and video cameras to watch it since there have been so many thefts.

 

Congratulations!

Well, to my knowledge, there have been about four or five thefts over the last ten years. Your local Walmart probably has more than that. Some really expensive guitars have been stolen. But not that many from that place.

 

This appears to be the work of one person. And they not only arrested him but he _still_ had the stuff. He was also generous in spreading it out over several studios.

 

What I can't figure out is why. He couldn't play them. He didn't sell them. Makes no sense to me. Maybe it's like those people who buy stolen Egyptian artifacts and just take them out and look at them once in a while. I have no idea what makes some people tick.

[S. Yeti Bigfoot, Esq.]

Originally posted by LPCustom:

Originally posted by caprae:

LP - sounds like they could have set up a sting at that place. Didn't you originally say you put them in the cab of a pickup and went in to get the third guitar? An that many others have been stolen from the same place. Sounds like a great place to set up a sting operation.

 

I'm suprised that place hasn't put a fence around its parking lot and video cameras to watch it since there have been so many thefts.

 

Congratulations!

Well, to my knowledge, there have been about four or five thefts over the last ten years. Your local Walmart probably has more than that. Some really expensive guitars have been stolen. But not that many from that place.

 

This appears to be the work of one person. And they not only arrested him but he _still_ had the stuff. He was also generous in spreading it out over several studios.

 

What I can't figure out is why. He couldn't play them. He didn't sell them. Makes no sense to me. Maybe it's like those people who buy stolen Egyptian artifacts and just take them out and look at them once in a while. I have no idea what makes some people tick.

Unless you're a thief you'll never figure out what makes him tick. To you and me (and most of the folks in here, I'm sure) it just doesn't make sense...for his part...well, he'll have some way to justify it.

 

As far as I'm concerned, he's a thief and that's all I need to know about him.

[Tone Taster]

Well since the guy has money, can't you go after him for damages in a civil action?

 

Weren't you irreparably harmed and damaged as a result of this behavior?

 

Didn't you need certain axes for recordings and/or gigs?

 

I know you got some attorneys up ther in Hot 'Lanta, LP

[Pappy P]

Originally posted by LPCustom:

 

A friend of mine who works for the GBI has been working the theft of my guitars (a Gibson ES-335 and a Fender USA Telecaster) in his "spare" time. And he has managed to crack the case open.

Hey LP:

 

I've never heard of the GBI. What does that stand for?

[S. Yeti Bigfoot, Esq.]

Originally posted by Pappy Pappadopalus:

Originally posted by LPCustom:

 

A friend of mine who works for the GBI has been working the theft of my guitars (a Gibson ES-335 and a Fender USA Telecaster) in his "spare" time. And he has managed to crack the case open.

Hey LP:

 

I've never heard of the GBI. What does that stand for?

Georgia Bureau of Investigation.

[Gabriel E.]

Ok, here's what you do:

 

You know where the guy lives right? Since he has money, he's probably sprung on bail by now.

 

So you stake out his place and wait for him to go out somewhere at night. Wear a mask and hood. Jump him with a tazer or pepper spray (or a baseball bat if you're so inclined). The goal is to knock him down. Once he's down, grab a hand and produce a pair of pruning shears. Say clearly (but maybe use a fake accent of some kind to make voice identification difficult) "This is for stealing guitars." Then lop off one of his fingers. Make sure it's a good one that he'll miss, not a pinky. Quickly leave and take the appendage with you. Dispose of it down a storm drain several miles away - the idea is that it can't be found and re-attached. It goes without saying that you should wear gloves when you do this.

 

If the police ever show up at your house asking questions, your alibi is that you were hanging out at Lee Flier's studio. Or better yet, you were visiting Tedster in KC. We'll back you up.

 

One can dream. . .

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Originally posted by Sasquatch51:

Georgia Bureau of Investigation.

So what's the BBI then? I always thought the Ramones made it up?

 

I'm thinking of the song in "Rocket To Russia" ie

 

"I let her in if you're wondering why

Cause she's a spy for the BBI.

I leter her in and I started to cry

And then I knew I wanted to die

Oooh, little Ramona "

[skipclone 1]

Originally posted by Caputo:

Originally posted by skipclone 1:

Never claimed legal contract as the basis. Your taxes support these guys.

So could you demonstrate a direct connection from that tax money paid to an actual concrete duty in the same way as our security guard analogy?

 

Security guards are paid neither to investigate nor solve crimes, which makes your legal point interesting but irrelevant. The point was not about protecting anyone from anything, it was about due diligence in solving a crime already comitted. If solving crimes is not in the police job description, perhaps they are sightseers with guns?

 

 

Originally posted by skipclone 1:

[/QB]Getting nothing out of it in return other than a possible sobriety check is a fundamental ripoff

You still have the burden of proving that "the taxes which support them" goes toward a concrete, established duty that is writing and can be entered in as court evidence which would meet the criteria for the Federal Rules Of Evidence.

Your position that they owe us something because we pay taxes is based more on a philosophical or hypothetical premise rather than one rooted in Facts and Law.

 

.

Originally posted by skipclone 1:

Just looking at the firearms link you cite, I`m guessing this is an argument in favor of people loading up on guns. None for me thanks.

The communities which didn't surrend their firearms to the Nazi's were those ones who didn't go to Auschwitz either

Other Dictators such as Stalin and Mao Tse Tung employed mass involuntary disarmament before they went on a mass genocidal rampage.

 

Is it your position, then, that some people should be authorized to have firearms and others shouldn't?

Or is it one out of a voluntary premise in that it is something you'd rather not be involved per your "not for me" post.

 

Private Gun Ownership is a great safeguard against government imposed tyranny [/QB]

My `none for me` comment was partly to say as above, that you introduced an irrelevant angle into the discussion, that of protection by the authorities before the fact. That you posted a link to a pro-firearms site twisted the original course of the commentary. Solving crimes is another matter entirely. I went to the Chicago P.D. home page and tried to find their charter but it`s not there. New York P.D. has theirs posted, which includes `equal service to all wihout preference to age, gender, national origin, etc.`-doesn`t sound like that`s what happened in Craigier7`s case.

As far as the gun issue (yes it belongs elsewhere but...) ANYONE with a gun is a menace to the innocent as much as the guilty, not to mention themselves. I don`t believe in being defenseless but generally, citizens taking up arms against the government results in a lot of dead citizens-be my guest. The best way to prevent tyranny is through the ballot box. Besides, it`s debatable whether the current government could carry out anything as organized as tyranny.

[Tone Taster]

I have followed LP's reasonable admonition and have dropped it. I am not sure if you caught his post on that or not.

 

Thanks for sharing.

 

If you wish to continue this discussion, PM me.

 

No contract = No Duty = No case.

[skipclone 1]

Originally posted by skipclone 1:

Originally posted by Caputo:

[qb]

Originally posted by skipclone 1:

 

(yes it belongs elsewhere but...)

Not sure if you caught that or not.

 

I`d rather discuss music.

[Tone Taster]

okay, you win, I lose.

[skipclone 1]

Oh fer pete`s sake, it`s not about that.

The same PM invitation applies but my chat time is limited, I`d just as soon keep the focus on music at least for now.

[jackpine]

I too, have a happy stolen guitar story. I have a small studio in town that I use for giving guitar and bass lessons. The only valuables I had in there were an old crappy laptop, a 500 dollar 12 string, Hammond A100 and a shitty old peavey amp.

 

Sure enough, we get broken into and three of my goodies are gone( the pussy didn't feel like ripping off a 400 pound Hammond). So I call our local cops (I know the whole force personally... all 3 of them ). They actually do some digging, again, from the SERIAL NUMBERS I provided. They found the amp in a pawnshop in St. Cloud MN and the guitar at a Music-Go-Round used store in Minneapolis.

 

From the store receipts they catch the jerk... End of story. I got my instruments back.

 

 

Hurrah for the men in blue.

[LPCustom]

Originally posted by jackpine:

I too, have a happy stolen guitar story. I have a small studio in town that I use for giving guitar and bass lessons. The only valuables I had in there were an old crappy laptop, a 500 dollar 12 string, Hammond A100 and a shitty old peavey amp.

 

Sure enough, we get broken into and three of my goodies are gone( the pussy didn't feel like ripping off a 400 pound Hammond). So I call our local cops (I know the whole force personally... all 3 of them ). They actually do some digging, again, from the SERIAL NUMBERS I provided. They found the amp in a pawnshop in St. Cloud MN and the guitar at a Music-Go-Round used store in Minneapolis.

 

From the store receipts they catch the jerk... End of story. I got my instruments back.

 

 

Hurrah for the men in blue.

Great! Score another one for our side!

[BiC]

Originally posted by LPCustom:

I've been talking to Bluesape in the background about this but I thought some of the others here would like to know, too.

 

A friend of mine who works for the GBI has been working the theft of my guitars (a Gibson ES-335 and a Fender USA Telecaster) in his "spare" time. And he has managed to crack the case open.

 

He figured out who was behind the theft and has made an arrest. He also found my guitars along with about 20 others. Some had been reported stolen as long ago as 1995. He is working with the local PDs on resolving those cases.

 

From fingerprint evidence and witness testimony he determined that another person is involved. That person has been identified and they are looking for him.

 

I should have my guitars back by the end of this week. I got to see them last week when I had to identify them. They are in good shape and just need to be cleaned.

I'm really happy for you!!!

 

Maybe ONE of those "20 others" is my guitar which was stolen from Charleston, SC around 2000???

 

Boy, wouldn't that be a dream come true...

[LPCustom]

Originally posted by BiCorcist:

Maybe ONE of those "20 others" is my guitar which was stolen from Charleston, SC around 2000???

 

Boy, wouldn't that be a dream come true...

Sorry, I only just saw your post.

 

All of the others were reported stolen here in Atlanta. Probably because that's where the guy that stole them lives.

[LPCustom]

Update:

 

I just got back home from picking my guitars up. I have them back, now. They did tell me that I may have to produce them at trial as evidence. But I get to keep them for now.

 

Also the guy that stole them in trying to get a deal cut has confessed to stealing them and told the investigator how he did it. In every theft he paid a bum / urban outdoorsman / homeless guy / wino / drifter / hobo (take your pick) to do the actual smash and grab then would meet the guy later at a predetermined place, take delivery and pay the guy for stealing the guitars.

 

He says he has no idea who any of them were and they never crossed paths again. He says he never told them who he was and always paid them in cash. Usually about $250 and maybe some booze. This is the result of 14 seperate thefts of one or more guitars over the last 10 years.

 

The investigator told me that the story sounds right because the guitars have (other than excluded sets) 15 different sets of finger prints on them.

 

He told me that the way the guy says he convinced them to steal the guitars made it seem like he was just taking his own stuff back.

 

They have identified several of the other guys and are looking for them. Two of them have since died. The families of some of the others say that the guys in question are homeless.

 

All but one of the original owners have been contacted and everyone but that person has picked up his stuff (I was the last). The one they couldn't contact died recently. They are trying to contact the family.

 

I'm gonna go give my guitars a good cleaning.

[Gruupi]

Great news LPCustom

[Hardtail]

LPCustom,

 

You got damned lucky. I don't think I've ever heard of a guitar theft (or other thefts) with such a happy ending.

 

Enjoy the guitars.

[LPCustom]

@KPB

 

Of all the things I've ever had stolen from me, these are the only things I've ever gotten back. I wish I had them all back. Especially the 1988 BMW 325 and my 1984 Gibson Black Beauty .

 

My good fortune was being friends with a cop who is good at what he does. Well, that, and a rather dumb criminal (or is that redundant?).

 

I also have the good fortune to have "met" so many good people on this forum.

 

So, yes, I am a fortunate man.

[Tone Taster]

Originally posted by LPCustom:

They did tell me that I may have to produce them at trial as evidence.

Forgive me if I am missing the obvious, LP my fellow Southeasta.

 

Okay you've pressed charges and there is now a Felony Criminal Action

 

STATE OF GEORGIA, plaintiff

 

vs.

 

LOSER BOY, defendant

 

Is that correct?

 

Are you included as a party to the suit as plaintiff also?

 

Now, this guy is gonna get nailed criminally, no doubt

 

But I think you can go for some damages in a Civil action and really bleed this sucker like he needs to be bled

 

I WANT BLOOD !!!

[skipclone 1]

I agree.

Kick his assets.