Possible way to use Prosonic effects-loop with stompboxes?

[BluesWithoutBlame]

Just wondered, I have a new Prosonic head, and it is really great. But the only drawbacks with it are that it has no reverb (I really like just a touch sometimes of it) and its' effects loop was apparently designed as a +4db, which can be too high a signal for some stompboxes.

 

Seems like it was designed for rackmounts.

I know that ideally, an effects loop like this would need a pot to bring down the signal into the stomp boxes, but also need to amplify the signal again on the return. I don't know how well the Prosonic is designed for that.

 

But I got to thinking...if I was lucky and it didn't lose too much signal strength, I hit on the idea of using my Bss GE-7 (graphic EQ stompbox) and either using EQ bands or not, use the main gain/cut slider on the right to drop the level before it hits the stomp boxes.

 

Another option, might be fun to try, would be to use a tubescreamer in the loop first, but with the drive set to 0, and the volume boosted on the way back into the return.

 

Anyone see problems with this?

 

 

I think I posted here too, but never saw an answer if +4db effects loop could even remotely possibly cause any damage to stomp boxes?

 

Anyone know?

[musicalhair]

I think it would depend on the pedal. You should feel free to contact each manufacturer. Riveras have pots for the outgoing and incoming signals, it might be a do-able mod if you have good tech around.

 

If the pedal can handle it (as per the manufacturer's recommendation), you might find some interesting tones.

 

In general, delays and choruses and such pedals do pretty well in the loop. The Morely "lil Gator" volume pedal can work in the effects loop also.

[BluesWithoutBlame]

Originally posted by musicalhair:

I think it would depend on the pedal. You should feel free to contact each manufacturer. Riveras have pots for the outgoing and incoming signals, it might be a do-able mod if you have good tech around.

 

If the pedal can handle it (as per the manufacturer's recommendation), you might find some interesting tones.

 

In general, delays and choruses and such pedals do pretty well in the loop. The Morely "lil Gator" volume pedal can work in the effects loop also.

Yeah...thanks for the info.

 

Main problem here is the Prosonic apparently is a lot "hotter" signal-wise in its effects loop than "normal". I am finding this to be true, though it isn't necessarily too bad...I feel the pedals don't sound as good in the loop as the same pedals in my MTS3212's effects loop do.

 

I am a tech, though I would have to spend a lot of time designing and trying out circuitry to get an adjustable effects loop. Main thing, I know HOW it should be done, how it could be done even better, but have no experience with it. I might try and make two outboard boxes to see...but it would be a big job. Not sure how many amp techs have this kind of experience either.

 

The way it ought to be done, the considerations are...on the SEND side, it's easy, a simple potentiometer can bring the signal down to instrument levels no problem. Problem is on the RETURN input. The attenuated signal would have to get "make-up gain" to get it back to the level that the RETURN circuit in the amp expects to get it and is designed for. There's the rub, because it has to be amplified up for make-up gain handling a range of volume, and it shouldn't distort the signal any more, plus it needs to not change or lose any frequencies.

 

How it could be doen even better, the absolute best, would be foot switchable, adjustable (and switchable between low and high impedance), and parallel so I could set the mix between the dry signal and the effected.

 

Maybe a long term project. I suggested to the guy at Visual Sound that an outboard box that could do that would probably be a real seller, but he pointed out the problem is there are too many variables and something like this is integral to the amp...that there can't be any "one size fits all".

 

Generally, I find that guys who make pedals really don't like effects loops at all. Most pedals, even delays, are really designed to be used on input, but we guitarists don't want that...we want to be able to use the amps' distortion/high gain channel BEFORE delay effects especially. That's what WE want. But the poor pedal makers, they get all kinds of weirdness sometimes because some effects loops in amps are just not designed well, and often the pedal gets the blame. I can sympathize, but I am a customer and I want what I want.

 

:-)

[Dr. Ellwood]

How about using a simple active audio mixer ahead of the effects loop input? to adjust the incoming and outgoing signal? or maybe Im not understanding what you are really after?

[Caevan O’Shite]

Got a passive volume-pedal? That'd be a temporary quick-fix putting one first in line in the effects-loop signal-chain, before other effects-pedals. Then downstream you'd want to turn the level up some, if any of those pedals have a more-than-unity-gain output-level control.

 

Or a small mixer?

 

What is the reverb pedal that you have, anyways? Or whatever else you're putting in there, in the 'loop?

[Dr. Ellwood]

could you adjust the output signal gain for each peddle using one channel each of a small mixer/preamp to cool off the signal before it hits the effects loop?

[Darklava]

Prosonics are cool amps,the 2x10 is a monster.

[Caevan O’Shite]

Originally posted by Darklava:

"Prosonics are cool amps,the 2x10 is a monster."

I agree! Those little 2x10's are great little combos, a lot of amp there! I don't know why I've never owned one, or a Tele, or a Deluxe Reverb, either. Those Pro Sonic 2x10's are very underrated, I don't know why they didn't catch on better than they did! A lot to like there, and very versatile.

 

http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/icons/icon3.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/icons/icon2.gif Hey, BluesWithoutBlame, maybe it wouldn't be all that hard for the send (and maybe the return) level to be adjusted; probably just some component value changes, a few resistors and caps swapped-out, maybe even some trim-pot tweaking...

 

Lemmeesee if I can scare up schematics and info on that for you; and in the interest of hedging your bet, you should search for the same, yourself.

 

And by all means, post a question on this on the "Feel free to ask Myles"-thread, but be as brief, direct, and succinct as possible, for the best and most complete answers from Myles. (That seems to work best with him, he's pretty busy... )