Why guitarists can't read

[Raymar]

Could you imagine what this and other forums would

be like if we couldn't read english? Well for one

thing we might spend more time with music!

 

I started out taking lessons on the guitar with the Mel Bay books back in the 60s. I started to lose interest when some of those staffs had four or five flats or sharps at the beginning so you had to remember which notes were sharp or flat, never went further than that with reading.

 

By that time the music I wanted to play wasn't

available in sheet music form so I had to develop an ear and wear out some LPs and a few tape recorders. Anyway I'm no pro but it isn't due to not having lightning fast reading skills, my music tastes changed and so did my main instrument. That said I still want to learn some jazz and classical stuff for my own amusement and with the software that's out these days music can be slowed down to a crawl without changing pitch so its just a matter of getting to it and exercising my ever dwindling memory. Break out the ginko biloba.

 

Anybody ever lose a gig not do to a lack in your guitar playing but because you don't have a singing voice?

 

I don't have a dislike for reading music and may force myself in the future to bone up on it and take advantage of the huge volume of written music. But then again I believe somebody once said that imagination is more important than knowledge.

 

Steve

[dilettante84]

That article makes sense, but as a beginner, I am learning from experience that if you start learning to read music from the very begining, and integrate it with regular practice, it's really not that hard at all! I hgave spent the last two months with Hal Lenard's guitar e,mthod, and it intorduces note reading from the get go, and I can honestly say that I find it every bit as natural at this point as I would on a keyboard. Plus, I have without any dedicated effort, leanred all of the notes in the first position, which if I was just using tabs I doubt I would have.

[Guitar55]

Originally posted by Funk Jazz:

zappa wrote and read quite well, and used it to create music that would have been difficult if not impossible to express otherwise. i'm grateful for his ability, because it was a gift to us.

 

Zappa also said that talking about music is like dancing about architecture (or something to that effect).

 

Anyone care to dance? :-)

[Tedster]

Here's a little piece that will help you with your sightreading:

 

http://www.tangento.net/FaeriesAireandDeathWaltzGIF1.gif

[Tedster]

But wait! There's more!!!

 

http://www.tangento.net/FaeriesAireandDeathWaltzGIF2.gif

[Ricardo.]

To revive an old chestnut/immaturity, LMAO!

[Ricardo.]

My knowledge of musical notation is very low; I don't know where notes outside the staff are on the fretboard (without resorting to counting and the alphabet) and I don't know what the symbols are for most actions on the guitar. I started learning at the beginning but then I started tab'ing and it was addictive; I could either continue playing 'Twinkle Twinkle Little Star' or learn 'Paint it Black' at that point and I took the easy way out. Now I'm fast on the fretboard, I know what sounds good and can usually improvise well but I can't read music. I regret not learning it as it haunts me occasionally but it's so hard to start at the beginning once you get so far! For me, the problem was laziness. It still is actually as I haven't committed to learning daily yet...

 

I do have a question though. Is there any downside at all to learning musical theory and notation. I doubt there is a downside to learning notation/language but once you understand the science of music, doesn't it become emotionless? Sort of like proving there is no god?

[fantasticsound]

First, Pauldil, thanks for the article. I've tried to explain this very issue many times and few guitar players, let alone other musicians, get it.

 

Second, I hate this stupid arguement. I've had to read between the lines on over half the posts here to keep from getting incensed at responses from both sides of the issue.

 

Here's my take, and I'll attempt to leave no misunderstanings in my wake.

 

Reading music is a tool!

 

It is a very useful tool for learning new pieces without a recorded version of the music. It is a useful tool for learning music in orchestral or recording situations as a freelance musician. It's a useful tool for writing music.

 

So it's a useful tool. It's useful to anyone who learns to use it, and is not responsible for composers who are overly complex and virtually devoid of emotion writing music that reflects those personality traits. It simply makes it easier for them (and composers with emotion) to add complexity to their compositions.

 

But comparisons of spoken langauge and standard notation are far from perfect analogies.

 

Musicians have been creative since the dawn of time without a written, musical langauge. You would be accurate to say non-readers of standard are ignorant though it comes off as snobbish and carries the stigma of being stupid, though the word really just means absent knowledge, not stupid. And, as others have pointed out, many musicians take full advantage of the musical guidelines of theory without the ability to write down those rules. It takes nothing away from their ability to make beautiful music. Only their ability to read it from a page or write it down for someone else. Learning aurally or visually from watching another musician may not be the most efficient way to learn, but it is done every day by many musicians.

 

The real point is, learn to use tools that help you in your musical goals. That may or may not include reading and writing in standard notation. But stop bashing people for being readers or being non-readers. It demeans you, not the other person.

[pauldil]

Neil,

 

I think you get the award for longest time between double-posts

 

Paul

[musicalhair]

I liked the article, thanks for posting. I don't like a lot of the misunderstandings that some-- that don't at least advocate reading so much in this thread-- seem to have.

 

One big difference is that Violin and Viola and the orchestral strings are almost always taught within the classical tradition where everything basically is read. The limit to four strings also makes reading a lot easier. The actually can play some four note chords, at least according to my arranging books-- I'm sure PaulDil will know more about than I and I defer to any statement he made or will make on the matter.

 

The chords are not the biggest problem, the six strings are a bigger problem for us, I think, The biggest problem is how we learn the instrument. It even matters more than what our goals on it are.

 

There are a lot of people that are entirely self taught, or taught in part by freinds informally. Many are a combination of that with some more formal lessons with some guy with a flyer up or who ever is down at the local music store. These chance aquaintences have huge impacts not just on the attitude and skill of their students but on the culture we all share as guitarists. The sad part is there is nothing stopping the guy with the flyer posted up on a bulletin board from being clueless beyond a few tricks and Van Halen licks.

 

Music has many definitions, but for us in the context of learning and reading and teach it is a long and broad tradition that unites across cultures and spoken languages and time itself. We, through written music are united with Bach and Palestrina and so many others. He collectively have defeated death and stand ready to recieve from them their gifts even though we are not able to "pay it back". Written music is the ultimate "pay it foward", in to eterity.

 

The right way to learn this instrument must start with reading, even if thatis only to introduce the student to the largest world possible for a musician to learn from and to grow in. There is so much music that you can only access through reading that you are cheating a student if you don't at least give them the rudimentary skills to gain access to it and to show them at least an idea of the amount of music and the wide variety of music that is waiting, notated, to be discovered.

 

It doesn't matter what a students goals-- or our goals as guitarists-- are. Future goals are always different and our goals are set in part by what we see around us and what we accept as possible. Not reading shuts out the very largest part of our world and makes it appear immposible.

 

Reading does more than just give us more music to play and share. It helps us understand music in ways we can either on our instruments or in our bands or in any context we can be in. It makes a available to us, at least for the consideration, bands the size of Berlioz's. It gives a chance to analyze music in ways we'd never keep track of in our heads and allows us to see things and put things that we'd never have had the chance to otherwise.

 

Reading is also perhaps the least biased way to learn music. If you learn a bit of music from reading that you never heard before-- like viturally every classic thing I ever learned and same for most of you guys-- it is your interpretation from the very begining. One my teachers stressed this well, so that we didn't learn and interpretation our fumbling through the first reads of it but we saw it and interpreted it as we saw it and made it our own. I can't tell you how good it makes me feel that my Giuliani's Variations on a Theme of GF Handel (The Harmonious Blacksmith) is "better" than any of the recordings I've later heard-- at least when I've got it down and in practice. I owe that to reading it and not hearing anyone else play it. (Now, maybe no one would agree with my assessement of my version-- actually I've gotten some nice "thumbs up" on it, but that isn't the point as much as "my" version really is "mine" in the most organic way possible).

 

We are nothing without our ideas and the broadest range of ideas come from reading. Charlie Parker apparently carried around Stravinski Firebird Suite to study and think about and practice. Coltrane apparently worked out of The Thesaurus of Scales and Melodic Patterns, and studied with a guitar teacher and anyone he could. We get our ideas from as many places as we could and reading makes that possible-- otherwise it is just not true and the converse is true that we have a stunted and limited range from which to get our ideas.

 

The question is never "do you need to read", but what purpose does it serve to not at least develop the rudimentary skills to read. No one should be "teaching" without introducing reading. If the "kid" refuses, send him on-- teach to a standard or don't do it. We have enough morons with guitars strapped to their shoulders, self-professed "masterminds" and and idiots rehashing Sabbath and Priest riffs they are too dense to even recognize are minor permutations of Metallica riffs they think are "the classics". No one tells their martial arts instructor-- "I don't want to do "Horse stance" (believe me, I wanted to) or "I don't want to strike with a closed fist (again, I wanted to, it messed up my playing often) or any other odd request. So it should be with guitar.

 

It is OK officer, I'm stepping away from the soapbox and my hands are up in the air.

[Funk Jazz]

for as much sense as you just made MusicalHair, i'm afraid this argument will never be won.

[musicalhair]

Hey man, thanks! I'm just glad I made sense. I typed as fast as I could because "we're" late for Ice Skating practice and I'm typing now because the kid had to "go".

 

Catch you later.

[Dr. Ellwood]

Excellant job MusicalHair! you said it all..hay you never know..you just might have caused some guys to take another look at trying to learn to read..I hope so. http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b48/ellwood1/VANHALENPAUL.jpg

[Justus A. Picker]

Excuses, excuses, excuses! The reason so many guitarist don't read is because they don't spend the time and effort learning to read. Period. It's not difficult, it's not rocket science, anyone can do it. It just takes a bit of time and in this instant gratification society most people aren't willing to expend to effort.

[Dr. Ellwood]

Originally posted by Starcaster:

My knowledge of musical notation is very low; I don't know where notes outside the staff are on the fretboard (without resorting to counting and the alphabet) and I don't know what the symbols are for most actions on the guitar. I started learning at the beginning but then I started tab'ing and it was addictive; I could either continue playing 'Twinkle Twinkle Little Star' or learn 'Paint it Black' at that point and I took the easy way out. Now I'm fast on the fretboard, I know what sounds good and can usually improvise well but I can't read music. I regret not learning it as it haunts me occasionally but it's so hard to start at the beginning once you get so far! For me, the problem was laziness. It still is actually as I haven't committed to learning daily yet...

 

I do have a question though. Is there any downside at all to learning musical theory and notation. I doubt there is a downside to learning notation/language but once you understand the science of music, doesn't it become emotionless? Sort of like proving there is no god?

Well to answer your question: NO..there is NO downside at all. You improvise as much or more than non-readers probably because reading opens up so many more kinds and styles of music to you at a faster pace. Players that sight read well are not tied to their charts at all it is just that when new or charted material is put in front of you, you can quickly play it. Let me give a useful and simple example: say you have written a song both the chord and the lead lines in notation and you want to demonstrate how the singer should approach their part..you can play the singers part to them note for note OR when two guitar players who read are in the same band they can easily work out intricate dual lead parts with out much effort at all or with keyboard players or horn players or ... well you get the drift. OR in a studio situation where you are going to handle the lead guitar parts for a writer or producer... you cant ask to hear the piece through a few times so you can noodle around trying to fit someting in he might like!! you hit the session COLD and read your parts..then once you satisfied your written parts in the mix..most times the producer or session leader will ask you to expand on what you have done on possiably another track ..then you get to fill and improvise within the context of what you did on the original track. The point is this: you should be able to do both... sight read and improvise you usually end up doing both.

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Originally posted by caprae:

I read that you play an octave off on the guitar, which doesn't make sense but seems to stick in my mind.

Yeah, guitar music is written an octave above what it actually sounds.

 

This is just to make it more readable, otherwise you'd be forever trying to figure out all the ledger lines.

[Pappy P]

Tedster:

 

You are sadistic. Where did you find that.

 

Can you play that?

[Robman2]

Great article, it's well stated and yes, the simple fact that guitar crosses octaves as written between bass and treble, is well known to anyone who was schooled in orchestration.

 

I wish, I had concentrated on reading, it's something I drill into anyone who asks me if it's important, as firmly and gently as possible.

 

Even today, I'm wrestling with notation software, to script a tune for a session bassist in NYC.

 

So far, the results with the (brand) I bought for notation Guitar to MIDI to semblence of, sucks.

 

I'm actually going to have to sit down...very slowly count out the parts, rests, dotted etc's and do the copy the old fashioned way.

 

I can write, s-l-o-w-l-y and do not read well without fingering all of the notes hunt and peck.

 

Runs in the family, my Dad scored military marches between Kamakazi attacks to keep sane but during college had the second chair play his band parts, which he'd learn by ear, as first chair.

 

There is a line of creativness which cuts both ways, classical players who can and can't improvise and by ear folks who can and can't learn evolved techniques.

 

FWIW

 

R