James-Italy Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Granted I'm no Myles! Myles has forgotten more than I'd ever dream of knowing about amps. I wouldn't presume to step into his territory, I just thought it might be interesting for some of you folks to listen to a couple different tubes in the same THD Univalve. I'm such a novice that things like plate voltage and biasing goes straight over my head. I just listen for tone. Even if I don't have local access to Myles, the internet keeps us connected! Anyway, like I was saying to Kev in the other thread (didn't want to hijack that one too much), you have to remember that these are sound samples using the exact same guitar, amp settings, cab, and mic and miking position. I recorded them all one right after another so there should be no differences at all. I recorded straight from the SM57 to the Yamaha AW16G then popped them all in Sonar 3 so I could easily adjust the levels and convert to midi. Oh, and that shitty guitarist is always the same... me. I'm using a '03 LP Goldtop with Fillmore pickups (uncovered), all clips are with the bridge pup and vol/tone on 10. Remember that the guitarist!, guitar, volume & tones, cabs, mic, mic placement etc etc all have a large impact on the sound. I would have fiddled with the settings for the tubes other than the 6V6, but that wouldn't be good for straight tube comparison. I added no reverb or delay- this is exactly what the mic picked up. I used 2 Philips JAN AT7WC pre-amp tubes. I've been shying away from the grit of the ECC83's (12AX7) lately. The files came out larger than I wanted- sorry about that for dialup guys. I put everything here as a link, hopefully that will help. First the background: My Amp Rack Mic Placement on the 1x12 Engl Cab 6V6 vs EL84 Univalve Settings 6V6/EL84 6V6 RCA 6V6GT/G NOS black EL84 JJ Tesla in a Yellow Jacket 6L6 vs EL34 Univalve Settings for the EL34/6L6 EL34 Stock tube that came with the Univalve 6L6EH JTM45 (just for comparison) JTM45 Settings w/18db Attenuation from SE100 JTM45 New Baby- VHT Pitbull Fifty/CL Head VHT photo VHT Red Channel VHT Green Channel VHT Red Channel with VHT 2x12 cab VHT Red Channel with boost on and VHT cab (just diddling) Kev- listen to the last sound clip at the 55 second mark to hear the out-of-phase middle position on the Goldtop. Quack! Quack! Let me know what you guys think! My Gear My Attempts at Music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Wow, what a cool, cool post! You've been busy, Mr. James! I'll get back to you when I've digested this stuff (and downloaded that "Primer" of Myles'). Man, this kind of stuff is what this "Internet Community" thing is all about! Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Hey, cool! Now, with these being downloaded clips played back on a mediocre set-up through either very lame, cheesey passive PC speakers, or my better-than-average-consumer-grade headphones (AKG K-55's, not bad, but certainly not studio/reference-grade, and they have an inherent "enhanced" bass-response)... the differences are very subtle. On this end. I think that I prefer the 6V6 tones to any of the others in the Univalve. A most pleasing "clunge". But they all sound pretty good! The "out-of-phase"/dual Fillmores sound a bit "quacky", yet still pleasingly full. Try rolling back the neck-p'up's volume some, and just a smidgeon off of the bridge-p'up's volume, for a more-bridge/less-neck mix; I bet you'll get some tastey early Billy Gibbons' "Pearly gates" tones! Hey, when you want to record "clean" tones with the VHT's "Green" channel, try an open-back 2x12 cab, I bet you'll like the different sound! Thanks again for all the time and effort that you put into all that, James. Have a good week, enjoy that VHT! Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teahead Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 Kevin said it well, as usual, you have been busy James! Thanks for sharing those with us, I definitely prefer the EL84's to the 6V6's. Although the differences are subtle, they just have a little bit of fizz that the others didn't. I can see how that Univalve would be very educational too, allowing you to understand those subtleties and make an informed decision. Now we can share that knowledge, thanks to your kindness and efforts. That VHT sounds thick man, Chugga! Chugga! You'd have to have 'Self Esteem' to play with a tone like that... I must go and put it on now, your rendition has reminded me what a cool song that is, again thanks a lot for your generosity James. Enjoy those toys, best wishes, Tea. Pedal Clips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 (Meant to post something on an entirely different thread, but wound up here!) Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James-Italy Posted November 17, 2003 Author Share Posted November 17, 2003 Thanks guys but it really wasn't that much effort! I recorded the clips in no time at all. Took me about half a minute to change the tubes each time, another four or five minutes to let each of the tubes warm up nicely (had to keep it fair), and I recorded each clip first run, mistakes and all. About a half hour in total recording and another half an hour to transfer to Sonar, convert to MP3, and post on the net. Probably should have recorded them BEFORE I played a couple of hours on the VHT as my fingers were pretty tired. Kev- You've really got to crank the clips a bit to hear the differences. At low volumes they all sound very similar, cranked you can hear immediately the differences. I've tried rolling off the volume on the GT as you say on the neck to @7 and the bridge down to @9 and you're right, very Pearly Gates-ish. I'm very satisfied with these Fillmore pups and am enjoying that out of phase middle setting. Too bad I've still got so much to learn and am not able to play all the well yet. Someday! I've definitely got the gear. I love the VHT amp, but I'm not so sure about the cab. It's a closed back 2x12 and while I'd love to get an open-backed also (per your recommendation), even I have my limits! I'm don't know if I'm going to keep the cab. I brought it home with the agreement that if I didn't like it I can take it back for a full refund. The Palmer PGA4 should arrive any day now (shipped Friday from Germany) and getting more cabs probably doesn't make much sense since I'm not playing live. The cab does the EVH thing really really well, but I don't And anyway it's not really my style. It sounds great cranked up, but at 90-100db I think I prefer the Engl 1x12 with the V30. Oh well, I'm gonna play somemore today and tomorrow and decide. Teahead, The EL84 have the most fizz without a doubt. With AX7's for pre's instead of the AT7's they are even more fizzy. It's not really my sound though, but I can see how someone would prefer them. I don't like fuzz or distortion pedals either, but many people obviously love them. 'Self Esteem'- I know my limits man. I can record this stuff without embarrasment because I'm still learning and know I can only get better (can't immagine getting any worse) . Sometimes I feel strange posting my clips to real guitarists, but I figure you guys are listening to the tone/sound and not the playing (I hope!). I really dig that Self Esteem tune. I heard it the first time last month on my trip to the states and was blown away. Great tone! On the VHT- This VHT does the high drive stuff really well. I was very disappointed yesterday when I played with the Wolfgang though. I thought that would have been a match made in heaven, but I just couldn't get it to work right. Strange that the Goldtop sounded so good to me no matter what I changed on the amp, and the Wolfgang I coundn't get to sound decent no matter what I tweaked.... I'll try the Tele today! BTW, those VHT clips were recorded at @95db which is not really loud at all. The VHT sounds good at low volumes, and rips when cranked. I also bought a used Rocktron Intellifex to run through the FX loop, but it's going back. I didn't like the coloration and I really don't use much effects anyway. Anything I'd want to do I could do with the recorded signal later. Since I'm not playing live anymore, it just doesn't make sense. My Gear My Attempts at Music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 Hmmmnn... do you think that you'll never play live with anyone again? (Regarding the VHT cab.) Also, do you think that you're going to record "direct" without mics from now on? I'd think that a good open-back 2x12 cab would add a lot of versatility to recording, along with the Engl closed-back and the Palmer unit. Especially for clean tones! You can fool around with micing the back as well as the front, and throw some "ambient" distant mics in the room... As for cranking up the playback of those sample clips, these chincey PC speakers won't do it, and the headphones'll destroy my ears that way! Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklava Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 James you have done it again a VHT Pitbull! Geeeez it must be nice to have your funds. Don't you know there are young guitarist in africa that don't even have one good amp or guitar too play, shame on you. . . Just kiddin james good for you. Dammit now I want a pitbull...oooooh the gas pains. burrrrrrrp The story of life is quicker then the blink of an eye, the story of love is hello, goodbye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Strat Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 James, I think you've just about got the rythym for "Self Esteem" down, you just need to pick up the pace a little. I really couldn't hear that much difference between the 6V6, EL-84, and EL-34 clips. The 6L6 stood out from the rest a little, it was a bit cleaner and beefier. I still like the 6V6 better than the EL-84's though, most of my favorite small amps use them. Fender 5E3 Deluxe, Fender 6G2 Princeton, Ampeg Jet II, Silvertone 1482, etc. All of those are in the 10W to 20W range, push-pull 6V6, volume and a single knob tone control for the preamp. You should look into getting one of the above for your next amp. I'd suggest the Ampeg, since you can still get those new. The rest are vintage and would be hard to find unless you live in the USA. Keep on rockin' BlueStrat a.k.a. "El Guapo" ...Better fuzz through science... http://geocities.com/teleman28056/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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