halljams Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 Now don't get me wrong, I absolutely love what the guy did. I just got the new DVD and man, is he just a freak out spazz on that guitar or what? Was he a bit of a Coke freak or what? It kinda gets tiring listening to his messy flurries of notes so often. When he took his time and played it sounded great, and obviously the studio stuff is brilliant. He got an amazing guitar sound live though, man. That danelectro on "in my time of dying" is just killin! Check out SUPERVIBE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryrobinett Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 I'm not the one to talk about Page. So here I go. I loved the first Zep record when it came out. Loved it. Second one was OK too. Subsequent ones were alright by me I guess. But boy does he seem like a, . . . uh, problem to me. His playing often seemed really sloppy. Any time I heard some live recordings I thought, "Why?" He seemed to go WAYYYY off the deep end with drugs. Never read "Hammer of the Gods". Seemed way too presumptuous. Too much debauchery. Too bad side of rock'n roll-ness. Too Aleister Crowley. And then after it was all over and done with Jimmy Page was lost to the world FOR YEARS. A ghost. Has he ever really come back? It always seemed to me he hurt himself with drugs too badly. After those first couple of Led Zep records he lost it for me. Before that he so fresh and ambitious. Then, I don't know. He started believing it all. All the best, Henry Robinett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel E. Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 He had numerous substance abuse issues. "You never can vouch for your own consciousness." - Norman Mailer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halljams Posted September 13, 2003 Author Share Posted September 13, 2003 Originally posted by Gabriel E.: He had numerous substance abuse issues.Shitty. Henry, i agree his playing changed after the first little while, but i don't think he ever dropped the ball in the studio. Live, yes, it seems to often, although i do appreciate the energy they had, very big sound. Alot of people say that they stopped liking zep around the same time as you. People say they got wierd, lol. I like every studio recording from them. He seems to just have an endless stream of interesting ideas. On the topic of guitar players, i just picked up John Scofield "Blue Matter" again. I wore the shit out of it when it first came out, even learned most of it, but i havn't heard it in a long time. Great stuff. Anyone here dig that era for him? Check out SUPERVIBE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBBPaul Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 I had the wonderful fortune to meet Jimmy Page and Robert Plant by pure chance about 5 years ago. Robert was talkative, pleasant, relaxed and quite lucid. Jimmy spent most of the time staring into space. Our new and improved website Today's sample tune: Lonesome One Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halljams Posted September 13, 2003 Author Share Posted September 13, 2003 Originally posted by PBBPaul: I had the wonderful fortune to meet Jimmy Page and Robert Plant by pure chance about 5 years ago. Robert was talkative, pleasant, relaxed and quite lucid. Jimmy spent most of the time staring into space.Cool Paul. Man would i love to meet those two. Did you ask Jimmy what he was staring at? Check out SUPERVIBE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hebb Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 Dang, with all the talk about staring into space, Mr. Crowley, and coke-fueled flurries of notes, I'm starting to feel really interested in this DVD. Too bad I can't seem to rent it anywhere first, even though Blockbuster plays it on their TV monitors. I can't afford to drop the $23 right now. C. B. Hebb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 Originally posted by henryrobinett: I'm not the one to talk about Page. So here I go. I loved the first Zep record when it came out. Loved it. Second one was OK too. Subsequent ones were alright by me I guess. But boy does he seem like a, . . . uh, problem to me. His playing often seemed really sloppy. Any time I heard some live recordings I thought, "Why?" He seemed to go WAYYYY off the deep end with drugs. Never read "Hammer of the Gods". Seemed way too presumptuous. Too much debauchery. Too bad side of rock'n roll-ness. Too Aleister Crowley. And then after it was all over and done with Jimmy Page was lost to the world FOR YEARS. A ghost. Has he ever really come back? It always seemed to me he hurt himself with drugs too badly. After those first couple of Led Zep records he lost it for me. Before that he so fresh and ambitious. Then, I don't know. He started believing it all.I'm sure glad I'm not the only one who thought Jimmy's playing was sloppy. I had a hard time understanding what all the rave was about regarding this DVD. Sure, there are some great tunes, and it's a real blast from the past, but his guitar playing seems very overrated. And by the way Henry, I used to really enjoy listening to you at On Broadway in the late 80s. Can't believe it's 2003! Are you playing around Sac these days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryrobinett Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 Originally posted by WaterMan: And by the way Henry, I used to really enjoy listening to you at On Broadway in the late 80s. Can't believe it's 2003! Are you playing around Sac these days?Hey! Yeah. I play with my band every once in a while. Gig coming up Oct 4th in Folsom. Mainly I'm with a group called the Capital Jazz Project. Some of the same guys - same pianist (Joe Gilman) and drummer (Rick Lotter). Thanks for asking! All the best, Henry Robinett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlChuck Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 I heard some of that newly-released live stuff at Trader Joe's a couple of weeks back and I was amazed anew at just how bad Pagey sounded. I guess in the studio he had the luxury of going back and doing it over again and again until it sounded halfway adept. And this was a a guy that supposedly had some earlier success as a studio musician? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 I think Zeppelin live were more about the bombast than real musicianship. The real musicianship came through on the records. Page painted sonic landscapes with the guitar, and all the other instruments too, that are simply without equal anywhere. No one's ever come close to duplicating that although Zeppelin certainly have had enough would-be imitators. But trying to reproduce those sounds live is pretty problematic. I think Plant and Page really hit the mark when they did the "No Quarter" tour a few years ago and played with a full orchestra, a larger band, an Egyptian percussion and string section, etc. With all those musicians they were able to take the sounds on the Zep records, reproduce them where it was called for, and even expound on them. And Page played great, too. But with Zep live, with just the four of them onstage and no overdubs, I think he just went for a whole different vibe. He was also, as many have pointed out, really fucked up on drugs... which is a shame because it did limit his playing. Yet, it didn't seem to affect his ability to make it happen in the studio. I think that was really his strength as a guitarist, the way he made different sounds work together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_dup3 Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 I think Lee's first paragraph touches on the problem, which I'd define as too much adulation for the wrong reasons. Not only does this tend to give people the wrong idea about what they're good at but it often gives them a bad attitude about their audience [i'd suggest Bob Dylan as another example of someone fallen prey to this syndrome]...add the (over)indulgence in drugs, etc., & it adds up to a loss of technical & self-critical ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rog951 Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 When it comes to the guitar, sometimes precision is overrated... None more black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryrobinett Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 Originally posted by rog951: When it comes to the guitar, sometimes precision is overrated...Agreed, but sounding butt assed, piss assed drunk or stoned is another thing. All the best, Henry Robinett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daddyelmis Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 I believe it was Picasso who, late in life after achieving worldwide acclaim, said he could now "shit on a brick" and someone would pay a million bucks for it. www.ruleradio.com "Fame is like death: We will never know what it looks like until we've reached the other side. Then it will be impossible to describe and no one will believe you if you try." - Sloane Crosley, Village Voice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave da Dude Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 I believe it was Picasso who, late in life after achieving worldwide acclaim, said he could now "shit on a brick" and someone would pay a million bucks for it. Probably true, but it wouldn't be me; somebody with more money and considerably less taste (pun intended). Dave Gotta' geetar... got the amp. There must be SOMEthing else I... "need". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeleCarlos Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Remember the Coverdale / Page record? What do guys think? I remember having it but dont remember what it sounded like. I would like to revisit it someday. Had some interesting bits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat0124 Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 He is still one of my all time favorites, both on electric and acoustic. Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyote Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 The first couple of Zep records sounded like a live band. Not coincidentally, the concert recordings from that time show how they earned their rep - they were definitely a great live act on the first few tours. But they lived off that rep for too long, especially considering the other live acts around then such as ELP, Yes, Deep Purple, Pink Floyd.... bands that put on truly incredible concerts. But Zep somehow continued to pack 'em in despite the fact that often JPJ was the only member who sounded coherent. I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist. This ain't no track meet; this is football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leadfootdriver Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Jimmy Page is probably the most accomplished rock player of all time. No matter what his problems are, he has lived the dream. I don't think he's worrying about what other people think of him. He can just go to his castle, and do whatever he wants for the rest of his life. MySpace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loubeck Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 One of Robert Plant's former guitarists descibed Page as "a genius on guitar who's head got ahead of his fingers sometimes". It went something like that anyway... There's no doubt that he was sloppy at times. But the man had riffs for days and wrote some amazing music that is still very very relevent today. That don't suck. Overrated? Not to me he ain't. Just my opinion though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretzel logic Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Originally posted by leadfootdriver: Jimmy Page is probably the most accomplished rock player of all time. No matter what his problems are, he has lived the dream. I don't think he's worrying about what other people think of him. He can just go to his castle, and do whatever he wants for the rest of his life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
take5 Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 Clumsy at times...yes, Awkward at times...yes, Fucking awesome...yes, 'nuff said. Listen to the BBC Sessions and retreat to the woodshed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NMcGuitar Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 Originally posted by halljams: On the topic of guitar players, i just picked up John Scofield "Blue Matter" again. I wore the shit out of it when it first came out, even learned most of it, but i havn't heard it in a long time. Great stuff. Anyone here dig that era for him?It's one of my favorite albums! May all your thoughts be random! - Neil www.McFaddenArts.com www.MikesGarageRocks.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Gug Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 Waterman wrote: I'm sure glad I'm not the only one who thought Jimmy's playing was sloppy. I had a hard time understanding what all the rave was about regarding this DVD. Sure, there are some great tunes, and it's a real blast from the past, but his guitar playing seems very overrated. I said that when I first saw the DVD. In fact, I posted that a while back. I expected to get my head torn off, but it never happened. I'm glad to see at least SOME others think the same. I read an interview (Guitar World, I think) where Plant said that by the time the band got to LA, they were at the top of their game, and that's what's on the DVD. I rushed out to get it at that point, and disapointment soon followed. it's really good, but was that the TOP for Jimmy? Eeeesh! Sloppy is a good description. I said it before... Led Zep songwriting is second to none. The drums and bass on the DVD were outstanding. Plant really used his voice as an instrument, done very well. Leadfoot, glad to see you're still hangin'! If you're a fan, the DVD is a must-have. Mikegug www.facebook.com/theresistancemusic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklava Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 IT'S A SHAME SOME OF US HAVE EARS BUT CANT HEAR. WHEN YOU WRITE YOUR STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN GIVE US A CALL. The story of life is quicker then the blink of an eye, the story of love is hello, goodbye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIAMOND DUST Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 I think page was breaking so much ground in rock that we can cut him some slack.Who knows how hard it was to play all those shows and stay tight every nite.Not to mention all the temptations.Zep was really a trio,he had to do the work of at least two guitarst.People say HENDRIX was sloppy too. I guess the genuis's were to busy making thier masterpieces to pratice theory and techniuqe. http://b-cordova.dmusic.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halljams Posted September 19, 2003 Author Share Posted September 19, 2003 Originally posted by NMcGuitar: Originally posted by halljams: On the topic of guitar players, i just picked up John Scofield "Blue Matter" again. I wore the shit out of it when it first came out, even learned most of it, but i havn't heard it in a long time. Great stuff. Anyone here dig that era for him?It's one of my favorite albums!Oh yeah, i'm diggin it all over again. 'The Nag' just gets me all crazy inside! What do you think of his "new" tone these days? Check out SUPERVIBE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rog951 Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 Originally posted by Mike Gug: >>>I read an interview (Guitar World, I think) where Plant said that by the time the band got to LA, they were at the top of their game, and that's what's on the DVD. I rushed out to get it at that point, and disapointment soon followed. it's really good, but was that the TOP for Jimmy? Eeeesh! Sloppy is a good description.<<<Yup. I thought the same thing when I watched the DVD...actually, I STILL haven't managed to get through the whole thing yet and I bought it the first weekend after it came out. But, I was just given the "How the West was Won" audio CD as a birthday gift and it's, by far, the best I've ever heard the band play live. You could tell they were having fun and Jimmy was the least sloppy I've ever heard him live. And his tone is awesome... None more black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squ Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 Originally posted by coyote: But Zep somehow continued to pack 'em in despite the fact that often JPJ was the only member who sounded coherent.Bullshit! I'm sorry, but thats just wrong! Red Red Rockit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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