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[NMcGuitar]

Thanks, Rob!

 

This is the sketch of the piece that the others were based on:

 

Link\'s Lament sketch

[NMcGuitar]

Here's my first quick take at it. I took the first (complete) part of the original track and looped it to make it longer.

 

-------

(edit) For some reason, the link wouldn't work for me on this post, but it's fine on the next one.....

[NMcGuitar]

First stab

[DrummerRob]

Neil, VERY COOL. I love it! Scott and I recorded a better rough file this evening with a couple bridges. It sounds pretty cool. I can't wait to hear your take on this one too. I'll upload it in the morning.

 

I have to admit, keeping time with this groove is very tough. The next groove is going to be a little more traditonal, yet funky and will sound much better out the gate.

 

I don't know about you but I'm having a great time with this stuff.

 

RobS

[NMcGuitar]

Thanks, Rob. I can't wait to hear the new track!

[DrummerRob]

Ok folks, here is a smoother (yet rough...;-)) cut of the current groove. I think if you loop it so it plays twice we'll have something of song length to play with.

 

http://members.cox.net/robshepherd/music/SoundTest_tk 24.mp3

 

RobS

[DrummerRob]

Hmm...cut and paste the entire ink and it will work for you.

[NMcGuitar]

Having a little trouble with the link, so I'm gonna try putting the whole thing into this post and see if it will work for me.

 

Rob\'s link

[NMcGuitar]

I like the new bridge.

The bass player has changed things up a little in the "verse" section too. Is it a little slower as well?

 

I'll see what I can come up with in a couple of days.

 

[DrummerRob]

Neil,

 

Yes the beat is slowed down a bit since the syncopated drum beat was prooving to be challenging for me.

 

I've also learned how to correctly post links...;-)

[dohhhhh6]

I'm just wondering, is the program you're using to record the tracks free? If so, could you tell me the name? I'm thinking about getting into some self recording and haven't found a good enough program yet.

[DrummerRob]

I haven't seen anything good for free but I have Cubasis VST which goes for less then $100.

 

RobS

[NMcGuitar]

I use Cakewalk Pro Audio 9. Not free.

However, someone (Dak Lander) just told me about n_Track Studio , and it looks like it might be a decent program.

[DrummerRob]

Hi all,

 

Here is a link to what Scott and I did last night. We missed a beat in the beginning but it still has a fun sound to it. And we settled on a 145 bpm rate so that all future takes will be at the same speed. We added Jamblock, tamborine, and guitar effects tracks just for kicks.

 

PracticeMix4

 

RobS

[James-Italy]

Hey Guys-

 

Last night instead of practising I fooled around with Rob's track. I'm learning how to use this new 16-track and thought I'd play around to see if I could come up with something. Not trying to make excuses or anything, but remember these are "scratch" tracks I recorded while brainstorming. My wife was getting mad so I had no time at all to mix it down and the guitars are really drowning out the drums- sorry!

 

James Fooling around-

There aren't any any overdubs or anything. I recorded 6 guitar tracks (you can tell I was fooling around ), here are three of the better ones. I wasn't sure if I liked the feel last night. This morning I kindof like it though. Obviously the guitars aren't synced up or complimentary because I recorded them individually and came up with the feel I liked while doing the lead.

 

1. Clean Telecaster max vol/tone bridge pup, PodXT Patch EricJohnsonCln (no-delay) panned right

2. Distorted Goldtop vol-7, tone-10 bridge pup- PodXT my patch, panned left

3. Lead Distorted riff, Goldtop vol-10, tone-10 PodXT my patch center right

 

Scratch Track Rob\'s Song by James

 

Before we keep spinning around and around on short demos, why don't we try to decide on a format for the song? If that's ok with you guys. I was thinking something where we all know what's going on.

An example would be (just an example!):

1 measure - 4 beat lead in

4 measure - intro (A A C D)

8 measure - 1st verse (A A C D)x2

4 measure - bridge (G A)x2

4 measure - intro 2nd verse (A A C D)

8 measure - 2nd verse (A A C D)

4 measure - bridge

8 measure - lead

etc etc

[Gretsch]

James

 

you not really italian, are you?

impressive set of gtrs though

[James-Italy]

Originally posted by Gretsch:

James

you not really italian, are you?

impressive set of gtrs though

Nope I'm not really Italian- I'm a Florida boy. Came here to travel a bit in 1990 and I'm still here....

 

Thanks for having a look at the guitars. I love those babies too. The guys here on the forum helped me pick most of them. And if they keep talking about all that wonderful gear out there the collection is bound to grow!!!

[Gretsch]

James, I am really italian but live in the uk temporarily just the last 12 years!!! I am in Rome for Xmas wouldnt mind catching up with you..... maybe?

 

Yeah, the people here are really knowledgeable, arent they... makes you feel preety humble.

 

anyhow, do you know of a direct way to "chat" with people or is it just a case of posting all the time?

 

what happened toe the above recording was it ever completed? wouldnt mind a listen!! I am having problesm opening the above links at present... dont know what is happening tot he audio!! but I will fix it....

thanks for the reply

[James-Italy]

Benvenuto! Temporaneo 12 anni? Mi sembra di aver sentito qualcosa di genere! Sono di Bergamo, ma se possiamo trovare una soluzione mi andrebbe bene vederti!

 

Per chattare, uso mirc con gli amici, ma qua sempre il forum (o per mandare un private message http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/priv_message.gif

schiacci questo buttone).

 

Ci stiamo lavorando adesso su qualche pezzo, ma siamo veramente alla fase iniziale. Partecipi se vuoi!

 

Welcome to the Forum! 12 years of temporary living? Sounds familiar! I'm in Bergamo, but if we can find a way to meet up- I'd love to.

 

I chat with some of my friends using mirc, but with the others on this forum I always post or send a PM.

 

We've just recently started working on some group songs and are at the initial phase. Join in if you want. Ciao!

[NMcGuitar]

Originally posted by James-Italy:

Hey Guys-

 

Last night instead of practising I fooled around with Rob's track. I'm learning how to use this new 16-track and thought I'd play around to see if I could come up with something. Not trying to make excuses or anything, but remember these are "scratch" tracks I recorded while brainstorming. My wife was getting mad so I had no time at all to mix it down and the guitars are really drowning out the drums- sorry!

 

James Fooling around-

There aren't any any overdubs or anything. I recorded 6 guitar tracks (you can tell I was fooling around ), here are three of the better ones. I wasn't sure if I liked the feel last night. This morning I kindof like it though. Obviously the guitars aren't synced up or complimentary because I recorded them individually and came up with the feel I liked while doing the lead.

 

1. Clean Telecaster max vol/tone bridge pup, PodXT Patch EricJohnsonCln (no-delay) panned right

2. Distorted Goldtop vol-7, tone-10 bridge pup- PodXT my patch, panned left

3. Lead Distorted riff, Goldtop vol-10, tone-10 PodXT my patch center right

 

Scratch Track Rob\'s Song by James

 

Before we keep spinning around and around on short demos, why don't we try to decide on a format for the song? If that's ok with you guys. I was thinking something where we all know what's going on.

An example would be (just an example!):

1 measure - 4 beat lead in

4 measure - intro (A A C D)

8 measure - 1st verse (A A C D)x2

4 measure - bridge (G A)x2

4 measure - intro 2nd verse (A A C D)

8 measure - 2nd verse (A A C D)

4 measure - bridge

8 measure - lead

etc etc

Some cool sounds James!

I think your idea of setting the format is a good one. The outline you started seems like a good place to begin.

Maybe the "lead" could modulate to a different key?

[DrummerRob]

Hi guys,

 

I need a lesson here. Help me to understand...;-) And i'll apologize for my ignorance up front....but I learn fast.

 

1 measure = 1 bar of 4 beats.

2 measure = a phrase = A or B or C etc.

 

So if I apply that to what Scott and I have so far (and posted last night, PracticeMix4), it would look like this.

 

1 measure - 4 beat lead in

8 measure - 1st verse (A A A A)x2

4 measure - bridge (B C)

8 measure - 2nd verse (A A A A)x2

4 measure - bridge (B C)

8 measure - lead (D E)

4 measure - Finish (B C)

 

Does that look right to you guys?

 

Now, what is the differenve between and intro to a second verse and a bridge. What else do i need to know so i can talk the same language as you guys?

 

So going on the assumption that I've actually understood you, what parts do you guys want to insert into what we have already to make a format for a song. I'm open to any changes you think we should make.

 

Here is a stab at what we could do. Dos it look wacky to you? How would you write it?

 

1 measure - 4 beat lead in

4 measure - Intro1 (A B)

8 measure - 1st verse (C C C C)x2

4 measure - bridge (D E)

4 measure - Intro2 (A B)

8 measure - 2nd verse (C C C C)x2

4 measure - bridge (D E)

8 measure - lead (F G)

4 measure - Intro3 (A B)

8 measure - 3rd verse (C C C C)x2

4 measure - Finish (D H)

 

Please feel free to tell me I'm way off base here, if I am. I'm here to learn.

 

Robs

[James-Italy]

Rob,

I wasn't really paying attention to timing when I put up the example. Hope I didn't confuse you!

 

Here's my (possibly wrong) understanding of the terms. Remember these are guidlines. For me there are really no rules in music, if it sounds good that's all that counts.

 

Measures

One measure is simply one measure (or bar) in sheet music. Thus in 4/4, 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & is one measure. The count-in of four beats would be 1 measure.

 

Intro

Catchy rhythm (w/lead maybe) to grab the listener and try to keep them listening! Could be the same as the verse or chorus, or whatever.

 

Verse

Where the vocals tell the story. Seperate blocks are usually termed Verse 1, Verse 2, etc

 

Bridge

Kind of breaks the monotony and helps seperate the verse from the chorus. Helps to create a buildup to the climax (chorus).

 

Chorus

This is the catchy part of the song. Can be very close to the music in the Intro/Verse, but should have something to highlight it.

 

Lead

This is usally a combination of the verse & bridge where the lead guitar works it's magic. Often times builds to a climax at the end of the bridge where the vocals come back in to mix with it at the chorus.

 

Track Sheet

By having a track sheet it's a way for us all to be on the same page. Also, later when someone says, "It's be cool to add rhythm spikes at the 34th measure building to a climax in the 36th." We all know exactly what he's talking about. Gets a little tedious because a song at this tempo will have over 100 measures, but I can't think of any other way to track it.

Many pop songs follow the format of Intro/verse1/bridge/chorus/

introVerse2 /verse2/bridge/chorus/lead/

introVerse3 /Verse3/bridge/chorus/chorusToFade But really anything goes.

 

In the parenthesis of my example I put the chord progression. Example: (A A C D) I intended 1measure (bar) in A, another measure in A, one in C, and one in D. (x2) or (x4) or (x8) would mean played twice, four times, or eight times.

 

Here's a more accurate example of what I had in mind (m=measure or bar)

count in

1m - 8m Intro (A A C D)x2

9m - 24m Verse 1 (A A C D)x4

25m - 32m Bridge (G A)x4 [or (G A G A)x 2]

33m - 40m Intro to second verse (A A C D)x2

41m - 56m Verse 2 (A A C D)x4

57m - 64m Bridge (G A)x4 [or (G A G A)x 2]

65m - 80m Chorus ???

81m - 96m Lead (A A C D)x2 & (G A G A)x2

97m - 112m Verse 3 (A A C D)x4

113m - 120m Bridge (G A)x4 [or (G A G A)x 2]

121m - 136m Chorus ??

137m - 152m Chorus ??

 

that would put the song at about 4:22 by my estimates. Radio friendly songs are usually around 3:30-4:00, but who cares?

 

This is just an example guys, WHATEVER you want to do is fine with me. It's not my intention to monopolise or direct this show! I'm just trying to help us get something going.

[Gretsch]

my goodness you are a mathematician James!

 

But you are so right, I have not had any part in this composition of yours but I can tell that you got it exactly spot on!

 

You can be in my band anytime, ha ha ha!!!

 

Not bad knowledge of italian either, a few itches here and there.. but hey what the heck! it is a difficult language to spell.....

 

keep it up!

[James-Italy]

I mapped out a song that hopefully we all know. This is a song which touches on many different styles and managed to reach many different types of listeners- rock/pop/punk, but still remained radio friendly.

 

When I Come Around by Green Day

(going by memory here, but you should get the idea) think the song is just under 3:00)

1m - 4m Intro guitar (F# C#, D# B)x2

5m - 20m Verse 1 (F# C#, D# B)x8

21m - 24m Bridge (G# B)x2 "No need to...:"

25m - 28m Intro verse2 (F# C#, D# B)x2

29m- 44m Verse 2 (F# C#, D# B)x8

45m - 48m Bridge (G# B)x2 "No time to search..."

49m - 52m Intro Lead (F# C#, D# B)x2

53m - 56m Lead (F# C#, D# B)x2

57m - 60m Bridge (G# B)x2 "No time to search..."

61m - 68m Chorus (F# C#, D# B)x4 "when I come..."

 

This is just an example and shows that once again there are no rules!

[NMcGuitar]

NIce job, James.

It'll be a couple of days before I can actually sit down & work with the latest, so for now I am speaking strictly in theory.

 

I want to see if there is a modulation we can do for the lead section. Maybe down to E? That would make it pretty easy to go back to the A for the 3rd verse. Or if not there, maybe for the final verse-chorus it could modulate up (maybe B?). Just to break things up a little.

 

I think we should also figure out what direction we want to go with the whole piece. Obviously your first stab and my first stab don't exactly live on the same page. If we decide on a general direction, then we can start figuring out who will do what, and then we can start putting our tracks together.

 

Just BTW, if I haven't actually mentioned it yet, I like the groove, I'm enjoying the folks in the process, and I'm having a lot of fun working with this.

[DrummerRob]

Hi gang,

 

I'm having a great time too.

 

I like the dialog that we are all having and I believe in capitalizing on the strengths of each member. And since there are questions on song direction maybe I can put in my 2 cents and see if everyone agrees on regrouping and assignment of duties.

 

James can decide final format (the track sheet) of the song working in the current groove for the verses, and play lead guitar. I don't feel muscled out at all. In fact, I'm glad that I can learn some things from you....from all of you really.

Neil can handle rhythm guitar ( I like the direction you took so maybe we can continue that way?)

Scott can do bass

and I'll do drums and percussion

 

145 bpm will be the pace.

 

Does that sound ok to everyone? Are there other parameters that we need to difine?

 

I realize that we may have started the cart before the horse this first time out, with drums being done first, then bass but next song (hint, hint) we could do things in a more traditional order. Melody, Lead, Bass, Drums....repeat.

 

OR

 

We can start from relative scratch while still using the current groove. What I mean is this.

 

James can come up with the Track Sheet that we can all use as a starting point.

 

James and Neil can work out a scratch song that follows the Track Sheet and pass that off to Scott.

 

Scott will do a scratch bass part toadd to the mix and pass off to me.

 

I'll work out the drum part and record my "final" tracks first, based on the composited roughs.

 

Then James, Neil and Scott can take a final stab and record their final tracks.

 

I'll work on the CD artwork.....lol.

 

Anyway, thats how RUSH does things so I figure its a good way for us to work? If I'm way off base, or there is a better way, I'm totally opento that too.

 

RobS

[James-Italy]

Rob,

Sounds good to me. I like the idea of sticking with the current groove and building from that.

 

As far as the Track Sheet and general format of the song, let's keep it open so that everyone has a say, I'll just try to keep us on track so to speak.

 

Neil and I will have to come up with the chord and changes. Let me see what I can come up with today and I'll try to post something later- same for you Neil if you have time. I'd like to see what we can come up on that change to E or B. Once we've done that, it'll be up to Neil to come up with the rhythm guitar. I'll get the melody or "hooks" going, if I can.

 

BTW- I just reread the whole thread and noticed I never told Neil that I dug his take on the rhythm Sorry bout that! I like it, I just forgot to post. I like to tinker around and I'd probably come up with 20 different stabs at it given the time. I like to keep trying different things, that way I might get lucky and stumble across something really good.

 

For the lead guitar I'll be glad to give it a shot, but I'm already doing the vocals and it would be cool to get others involved. Maybe someone like Guitplayer (or someone else) would be interested.

[Gretsch]

ok been unwell over the w/end not done any practice with me bass! I deserve a kick up my ass!

not that it is of interest to any of yous,but i thought i'd share it anyway

[James-Italy]

Originally posted by Gretsch:

ok been unwell over the w/end not done any practice with me bass! I deserve a kick up my ass!

not that it is of interest to any of yous,but i thought i'd share it anyway

Gretschky!

Sorry to hear you were unwell. English food and too much beer? I was really lazy this weekend too. I kept meaning to get around to this song, but wasn't in the creative mood. When I get like that I fool around until it passes.

 

Hopefully, you're feeling better and I'll get my lazy ass inspired!

[NMcGuitar]

Hey everyone!

Really busy weekend, so I'm just catching up this morning. It all sounds like a good plan to me. Unfortunately, I haven't touched my guitar in a few days , so I haven't had any new ideas on the modulation part. I should have a chance by Thursday to put some time into it.

James, thanks. I'm glad you liked the track. Are you coming up with a melody, or working off the one I made up on that cut? I'm not sure if it really makes any difference, but it could influence the directions I look regarding this modulated section (you know, does the melody lead to one thing or another).