Sir Bob Posted June 11, 2001 Share Posted June 11, 2001 Yesterday I went to the guitar show at the Pasadena Civic Auditorium. This is the third year for the show and it was a bust. This was the first year it didn't cover both days of the weekend. Many retailers complained they made few sales, not enough to cover expenses of coming from out of town. I asked the Buffalo Bros. of Carlsbad where were their old Martins? They said this was a $1,000-and-under guitar show. I didn't see many pieces from the '50s and '60s. My friend didn't care. He bought a Made in Mexico Stratocaster for $200. It came with gig bag too. What is your experience across the country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Gauss Posted June 11, 2001 Share Posted June 11, 2001 i hope its dried up. guitars should be played, preferably loudly, and badly by young kids with a rock and roll gleam in their eyes, and not sold at ransom prices in antique stores to designer suited bankers as investments.... -d. gauss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtrmac Posted June 11, 2001 Share Posted June 11, 2001 I'll agree with that. I don't see a lot of collectibles coming out of the closet though unless the prices start plummeting. Which seems unlikely. I think that what was observed and commented on at the guitar show is that the good stuff has become so inflated that it is not moving any more. I also think it's a shame that so many great guitars are out of circulation but I think there are a lot of good players instruments being made in the Gibson and Fender Custom Shops. All those old axes were production instruments after all. I've played some Fenders from the early sixties for instance and some of them were dogs. Seemed like the Gibsons were more consistant sounding. Mac Bowne G-Clef Acoustics Ltd. Osaka, Japan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrg music Posted June 11, 2001 Share Posted June 11, 2001 Originally posted by d gauss: i hope its dried up. guitars should be played, preferably loudly, and badly by young kids with a rock and roll gleam in their eyes, and not sold at ransom prices in antique stores to designer suited bankers as investments.... -d. gauss Damn right!! ( except for my vintage one of course) http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Guitars were meant to be played, I don't stuff mine in a closet I play it, except of course in conditions that would really damage it. The thought of having these ol beauties in the hands of suits who know nothing about them is sad indeed. Simon ------------------ ...remember there is absolutely no point in talking about someone behind their back unless they get to hear about it... ...remember there is absolutely no point in talking about someone behind their back unless they get to hear about it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat0124 Posted June 11, 2001 Share Posted June 11, 2001 I totally agree with Dguass......specualators and collectors have ruined it all for us. Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted June 11, 2001 Share Posted June 11, 2001 What was the term we used to use back in the seventies? "Fucking A Straight!" Yep. Had one guy come in to the bar one night. I was playing my Rick 360-12. The guy started asking me a bunch of sort of intelligent questions about it. I asked him if he had a Rick...and he kinda bragged "Yeah" and proceeded to name off a bunch of other classic pieces he had. I asked him if he played in a local band, he said "Oh, no, I don't play...I collect." I shoulda punched him. But...the vintage amp market may have some bright spots in it. There are probably more vintage amps...decent old pieces, what have you, that people are willing to part with, simply because the publicity isn't quite as bad as it is for guitars. Close...especially for old Fenders...but there may be a bit more hope there. "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted June 12, 2001 Share Posted June 12, 2001 Things are completely overinflated. I think a lot of "collectors" have been living in their own world, residing in their own micro-market. I predict in about 4-5 years a lot of "vintage" places will unfortunately dry up, followed a few years later by quick sell offs of what should never have been inflated in the first place (70's Strats, JCM 800's, Tube Screamers, etc.). 50's Les Pauls and 60's Strats will remain along with plexi Marshalls and bf Fenders, but hopefully that will be it and newly-professional musicians will have the chance to get a decent instrument for a decent price. What I want to know is, who is hoarding all of the early Charvels? ------------------ New and Improved Music Soon: http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trick fall Posted June 12, 2001 Share Posted June 12, 2001 The prices are just ridiculous. If I went to a guitar show the only thing I'd prolly be able to look out for would be something off beat like an 80's Love Rock or something. There's a cool guitar store where I live that always has tons of vintage stuff. I went in the other day and they wanted like 350.00 for a Tube Screamer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat0124 Posted June 12, 2001 Share Posted June 12, 2001 I recently saw a 66 SG with P90's in a store with a ridiculous price tag of over two grand. Just a standard. I've got a 65 standard SG with P90's.....I don't see how they can justify that. Also I saw at the same store a super ratty mid 60's twin, that hummed terribly and from the looks of the thing, might take several hundred dollars to bring back from the near dead.....they wanted $600 as is. Stupid money. Telecasters, the simplest electric guitar ever made, draw big bucks......I have a regular old working man;s 74 blonde Tele, that I'd be a fool to sell now, cause in ten years I could use it to buy a new car.....the speculation is that bad......absolutely crazy. Then we get into acoustics.......old Martins draw excellent prices, as do Gibsons, but realistically asides from great tone.....some of the older acoustics are basket cases to play, keep in tune, bad intonation etc. I guess people don't mind paying a grand for an oldie, then go out and spend another to fix it. I have an early 70's HD35 that I couldn't buy today....be way outa my price range. Most of my gear I couldn't afford today. And that's just my gear from the 60's and 70's.....imagine the prewar Martins etc. But to be honest, I don't bring out the vintage stuff for just any gig. I save it for the bigger and better gigs. To each his or her own though. Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Turner Posted June 13, 2001 Share Posted June 13, 2001 Checked out "Antiques Road Show" lately? Try prices on '53 Jag XK120s....... or closer to electric guitar Nirvana, try a show condition '58 Chevy..... Come on guys, get over it. Collectibles are what they are. I say jack the prices up to where only Texas oil magnates can afford them, and make room for some of the great new stuff being built....the vintage guitars of the future. Of course, I'm prejudiced; I'm a guitar maker. And we build 'em better than they used to..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtrmac Posted June 13, 2001 Share Posted June 13, 2001 I have mixed feelings about this issue. On the one hand it is certainly a drag that prices of old Fender and Gibson solidbodies have become terribly inflated by collectors. This keeps good instruments out of the hands of players, not a good thing. On the other hand this has motivated Fender and Gibson to recreate these instruments in their Custom Shops and the reissues are certainly as good as the originals. You can even get one which has been "antiqued" to look as beat up as an old one. Don't forget that since the originals were mass produced production guitars many of them were actually dogs. I've played old Fenders especially which sucked. If a player must have the original '50's or '60's guitars then they are suffering from nothing more than a variation on the collectors attitude I think. Consider yourself lucky. Professional classical musicians consider it mandatory to spend upwards of $40.000 for an instrument. ------------------ Mac Bowne G-Clef Acoustics Ltd. Osaka, Japan Mac Bowne G-Clef Acoustics Ltd. Osaka, Japan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted June 13, 2001 Share Posted June 13, 2001 Well, shucks, I think I have an old Kay I'd be glad to sell someone for 40 grand...hahahahaha... "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtrmac Posted June 13, 2001 Share Posted June 13, 2001 Old Kay Upright Basses are collectibles now. God I hope people aren't selling old Harmony semi-hollowbodies for high prices. We demolished one when I was a kid after I got a Tele. Mac Bowne G-Clef Acoustics Ltd. Osaka, Japan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat0124 Posted June 13, 2001 Share Posted June 13, 2001 Hey...we have an old upright bass.....don't know if it's a Kay.....might be. It's featured on several of our songs. Talk about cool looking. Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Submersible Posted June 16, 2001 Share Posted June 16, 2001 What happened to the vintage market? eBay, that's what! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtrmac Posted June 17, 2001 Share Posted June 17, 2001 Actually someone here posted an ebay listing with an original 50's Les Paul, it wasn't a bargain though. Mac Bowne G-Clef Acoustics Ltd. Osaka, Japan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted June 17, 2001 Share Posted June 17, 2001 There's a supposed original Vox AC-30 on there that is being offered by an alleged (southern used car salesman voice) "certifahd rock star"..it's being re-bid. I wouldn't mind having a Vox. It'd go well with my Marshalls and my Ampeg. "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtrmac Posted June 18, 2001 Share Posted June 18, 2001 Vox AC-30's go good with just about anything. Mac Bowne G-Clef Acoustics Ltd. Osaka, Japan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Submersible Posted June 18, 2001 Share Posted June 18, 2001 Actually someone here posted an ebay listing with an original 50's Les Paul, it wasn't a bargain though. I should have been more clear. I meant, "eBay ruined the vintage market." It seems to have standardized prices across the country and made the vintage market as crappy everywhere as it is where I live, in the Bay Area. No more going out of town or out of state to find a good deal on a (for example) Roland Space Echo from a mom & pop music store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockbody Posted June 18, 2001 Share Posted June 18, 2001 About ten years ago I traded a '75 Strat on another guitar...$200.00, and worth it, too. Heavy as a Les Paul, weak pickups, and half a baseball bat for a neck. Fast-foward ten years, the same store has the same guitar again. Same everything... $1075.00. "Why, oh why?" I ask. "It's vintage, now." I'm told. It's really sad that you can take any old piece of crap and call it "collectable". What's the main benefit of the above stated Strat? It wasn't made during Fender's heyday (Actually, during what might be called Fender's dark period, CBS). It doesn't sound very good. It doesn't really look very good. It really doesn't play very well compared to even a new Mexican Strat. (I was young. Leave me alone http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif ) It's old, that's all. Of course, this is probably why this particular dealer has about 20, or so, mid-seventies - early eighties strats. Oh well, all these music store will just become "Old Guitar Reclaimation Centers" until the owners can't put food on the table anymore. Then the prices will come back down to earth. Just stay away from my Hamers. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynx Posted June 19, 2001 Share Posted June 19, 2001 Yass, yass, I've sat in the uh..."vintage" (?? literal translation: wine age- a genre specific term-you explain it to me) room at the Guitar Center smack in the middle of Hollywood, CA playing all manner of (and grossly overpriced) old Gibson and Martin acoustics and verifying what I had discovered a long time ago; some of them sing and have great actions and just as many or more you would be relieved to see heading out of your driveway in the hands of some sucker at a fraction of the market price. A once esoteric thing is now up for sale-if you have'nt got any talent or cool you can still buy a piece of it if you're willing and able to shell out the coin-thereby denying many deserving players the opportunity to ever own such an instrument. I imagine the truly dedicated among these people must have to hire a capable player to determine whether or not their latest acquisition to be is a piece of shit. I will personally support any bill requiring that high quality guitars be restricted for sale only to licensed musicians who have passed a competency test.Collectors other than the above would be subject to harsh, cruel and unusual punishments.(In a perfect world only guitar players would buy guitars) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Bob Posted June 19, 2001 Author Share Posted June 19, 2001 You are so right. I spent time at the Hollywood Guitar Center playing the acoustic guitars, especially the Gibson J45, SJ200. You would think that $3,000 would buy you a good guitar but some of them sounded terrible. I ended up getting a new Martin HD-28 and am very happy with the tone. And I saved a grand too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtrmac Posted June 20, 2001 Share Posted June 20, 2001 You'll feel better when you read this. During the late 60's and early 70's I sold the following: 64 Tele 54 Les Paul Custom 2- 61 SG Les Pauls 61 SG Les Paul Custom 61 Strat 62 SG Junior 59 ES-335 And others that I can't even remember, not to mention half a dozen or so Fender and Marshall amps. I got top dollar for them all, sometimes several times what I paid for them. If only I'd known! They were just tools to me at the time. I regret selling th 61 Strat and the 64 Tele, which was my first guitar. I can't complain though I have several very nice guitars. Well I can't complain but excuse me while I cry! ------------------ Mac Bowne G-Clef Acoustics Ltd. Osaka, Japan Mac Bowne G-Clef Acoustics Ltd. Osaka, Japan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Posted June 22, 2001 Share Posted June 22, 2001 I remember the first time I went to London in the late 80's. I was wondering where all the old American guitars were and they were all over there! I saw bunches of older Strats, Teles, Les Pauls and ES-335s hanging in shops. There's a store in Louisville where a lot of famous folks have shopped over the years (piccys of Clapton, Stones etc on the walls). I've played a bunch of older guitars up there and I'll agree that a rather high percentage of 'em just completely suck. Shame there's not some sort of cosmic filter that gives the non-playing collectors the dogs and routes the good ones to actual players. That's a new one on me. Guess I never thought of non-musicians buying guitars. Fuck it, I'm gonna pick up a vintage set of golf clubs or brain surgery tools and become a collecter. -David http://www.garageband.com/artist/MichaelangelosMuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtrmac Posted June 23, 2001 Share Posted June 23, 2001 I've noticed that famous musicians are big collectors too. How do you guys feel about someone like Steve Howe, the guitarist from Yes, who has over 300 instruments. All of them are collectible pieces of course. He actually had his "pre-electric" colection on display in a museum while I was in Londo ten years ago. What about Clapton? He sold 100 guitars to finance his rehab joint in the Bahamas. I'm sure he kept some for himself. Only rich collectors could afford them of course. Some of them went for several hundred thousand dollars- to collectors of course. Remember the scene in the Who Documentary "The Kids Are Alright" which shows John Entwhisles house (castle?). The walls were covered with guitars. I'm not gonna lose any sleep over this myself. Who cares? You only need one good guitar, the rest is all about music. Yeah right? If you tell my wife I said that I'll kill ya! ------------------ Mac Bowne G-Clef Acoustics Ltd. Osaka, Japan My Music: www.javamusic.com/freedomland Mac Bowne G-Clef Acoustics Ltd. Osaka, Japan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel E. Posted June 25, 2001 Share Posted June 25, 2001 Vintage stuff has been unnavailable to most players for a while now which is a drag. But now even the "uncollectable" stuff is becoming overpriced - like the 70's Strat mentioned above (how many tens of thousands of Stratocasters did Fender make in the 70's anyway?). Vintage guitars and amps used to have to be in good condition and have some sort of special features (like a custom color) for them to be considered collectable. Now it seems like as long as they're more than 15 years old, they're called "vintage" and command a rediculous price. Someone mentioned a Tokai Love Rock as a viable alternative to a vintage Les Paul. Sorry, one was for sale on ebay recently and even though the highest bid was over $2000, the reserve was never met. Buy new. Gabriel "You never can vouch for your own consciousness." - Norman Mailer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eh steve Posted June 26, 2001 Share Posted June 26, 2001 61 strat flew into my house. sweet! http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail36.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted June 26, 2001 Share Posted June 26, 2001 Welcome to the show, W8less... '61 Strat flew into your house??? Hmmm..."THIS IS DENVER APPROACH CONTROL, 61 STRAT DESCEND TO 080 AND MAINTAIN HEADING 270"... Hmmm...what a stroke of luck! "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eh steve Posted June 26, 2001 Share Posted June 26, 2001 actually... it's my wife's guitar. she even lets me touch it every now and then. =] http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail36.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBartus Posted June 27, 2001 Share Posted June 27, 2001 I think the epitome of absurdity, at least for me, was walking into a Guitar Center about three years ago, and seeing a late '60's Fender Mustang on sale for just under a thousand bucks. The finish looked like hell, it was missing the whammy bar, and in general looked to be rode hard and put away wet. I have a 1965 Fender Mustang that's absolutely MINT compared to that guitar. It was my first ever electric axe, and it has sentimental value to me that I can't put a price on. But pay a grand for a Fender Mustang?!? Mine must be worth at least $3500 compared to the piece of crap that I saw! The same goes for '70's Strats -- didn't like 'em then, and they're just older now. My faves are the early '60's era Strats... they play and sound just incredible -- if you find the right one. I never liked the '50's ones, though. As far as "collectible" instruments go, if they're something I can use, I'll keep it. If not, bye bye. I still have a 1973 Gibson Les Paul Recording bass (with the big oval pickups and the low-Z output). It's a cool bass, and nothing else sounds like it. It gets used. Same with my mid-'80's vintage Les Paul Custom complete with factory-installed Gibson (by Kahler) vibrato. Awesome guitar, great sound, gets used. Another cool axe is my second-hand '62 vintage reissue Strat that a previous owner had put an EMG pickup/pearl pickguard assembly onto. Killer tone. I just got a Mexican Fender Powerhouse Strat -- WAY COOL "custom-shop" type guitar, especially for the money. My '57 Reissue Danelectro Longhorn Bass also puts out great tone and gets used. I have other acoustics and basses, none collectible, but all functional and utilitarian. Although I do like my guitars, I see them as "tools" to achieve and end, not the end itself. I had a late '70's era Gibson SG that might be worth something now, but I hated the guitar and got rid of it for a few hundred back in the late '80's. I still don't miss it. I also got rid of another late '60's Mustang and an old Fender Musicmaster bass along the way. The only one I regret is the Musicmaster -- it was cool, but I needed the money (if I remember, it was so I could buy the Les Paul bass). Like someone stated earlier and in a different way, there's a special place in Hell for non-players who collect classic guitars. Let them be played, strummed, picked, held, admired, and heard -- LET THEM MAKE MUSIC!!! ------------------ John Bartus Radio Active Productions We Make Great Radio Happen - Guaranteed. 1-888-93-RADIO www.radioactivedigital.com John Bartus Music From The Fabulous Florida Keys www.johnbartus.com www.cdbaby.com/bartus www.radioactivedigital.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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