Tedster Posted May 20, 2001 Share Posted May 20, 2001 Well, now that we're all full of lo-ove...what about tones you DON'T like? For me, that's probably easier. I mean there are tones I love, but it's the grating ones that bother me more. One that bothers me is that uncomfortably clipped sounding distortion on Kenny Wayne Shepherd's "Blue on Black", the one on the solo. However he got that sound, I wish he'd forget. I think Clapton's used a similar effect. To me it doesn't sound smooth at all.. "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrg music Posted May 20, 2001 Share Posted May 20, 2001 The one tone I can't stand is Carlos Santana!! YUK YUK YUK!! I could never understand how such a technically competent player could use such a naff sound..... Simon ...remember there is absolutely no point in talking about someone behind their back unless they get to hear about it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted May 20, 2001 Share Posted May 20, 2001 Originally posted by Tedster: One that bothers me is that uncomfortably clipped sounding distortion on Kenny Wayne Shepherd's "Blue on Black", the one on the solo. However he got that sound, I wish he'd forget. I think Clapton's used a similar effect. To me it doesn't sound smooth at all.. I think he's using a octave splitter into a Fuzzface on that - a really garbled sound, I assume that's just for the effect.... Clapton on the studio version "Bad Love" *does* sound pretty much like a bug caught in my ear. Which has actually happened before and it sucked enormously (or I should say it bites)... I don't know what was up with that sound, it's almost in the "chewing on tinfoil" range of yuck... ------------------ New and Improved Music Soon: http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted May 20, 2001 Share Posted May 20, 2001 Although I love Clapton's original version of Layla, that high guitar line in the opening riff can drill through your skull, even at relatively low volume. When I heard he was re-recording Layla, I thought I'd finally get a sweet production of a classic song. Instead, the unplugged version sounds like he's depressed. What happened to the POWER of the original. Totally lost it. I wish he'd do the Stevie Ray Vaughn/ Hendrix thing. Great playing WITH far better recording. Man Stevie could smoke on Voodoo Chile. (And no, I'm not insulting Hendrix's playing or tone, but boy it would have been great to hear him record with in '86, or now for that matter.) Okay, am I still gonna get flamed for Hendrix, or just the improvement or lack thereof in recording equipment from then to now? If you must, Fire away... Neil It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinopop Posted May 20, 2001 Share Posted May 20, 2001 Buddy Guy Love the songs, the playing, the singing ... But that razor-wire tone! Serious loss of blood from the sliced-up ear drums. - Layne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Posted May 21, 2001 Share Posted May 21, 2001 John Lennon is one of my absolute favs, but I hated his late 60's clean tone, that Casino. It's all low mid mush, sounds like he ran his guitar through one of those crap Joe Meek boxes. I also absolutely lothe that scooped out middle metal tone. For electric overdrive sound I need more and more mids. Makes guitar blend so much better with other instruments. Of course I love the Carlos sound so I suppose I'm the polar oppisite of nrg music. -David http://www.garageband.com/artist/MichaelangelosMuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat0124 Posted May 21, 2001 Share Posted May 21, 2001 I never cared for that late 70's/80's direct injected, chorused out, guitar tone of alot of New Waver's. Really thin and lifeless. Also the trend of alot of the spandex crowd of doing sets of acoustic songs with that nasal whine brittle sounding acoustics......it's excruciating. There's lots of effects I don't care for, but I realize it's their vision of coloring the song, sort of the aural landscape. And I've used the same effects at one time or another. I wish Robert Cray would add a little mid's to his tone....it's icepick sharp at times. And Buddy Guy as well, as someone mentioned.....cool lines, but so sharp. But that's their tone...and they make it work for them. If I had my druthers, even ole Jimmy Page would still be playing out of Supro's. Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlChuck Posted May 21, 2001 Share Posted May 21, 2001 This is fun! Note: in some of my picks that follow, it's hard to separate the bad playing from the tone itself... good players can often make up for a so-so-sounding axe. The solo in "Dream On" by Aerosmith The fills in "Miracles" by the Jefferson Starship. All those San Francisco Summer of Love dudes sound awful -- John Cippolina, Jorma Kaukonen, the guys in Big Brother and the Holding Company -- everybody but Steve Miller and (later on anyway) Jerry Garcia Some of the guitar tones in John McLaughlin's Mahavishnu II-era work are dreadful -- especially in Visions of the Emerald Beyond Larry Coryell's Eleventh House-era stuff too (bleeech) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyote Posted May 21, 2001 Share Posted May 21, 2001 Eric Johnson. Haven't heard his latest but the tone on his earlier recordings is compressed into a damn shoebox or something. I'd love to hear him w/ a full, open tone sometime. I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist. This ain't no track meet; this is football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBartus Posted May 21, 2001 Share Posted May 21, 2001 One of the most obnoxious guitar tones ever was the fuzz guitar in Norman Greenbaum's "Spirit In The Sky" from those bygone psychedelic daze... Gawd, what an awful racket! Also, most any fuzz bass solos... ------------------ John Bartus Radio Active Productions We Make Great Radio Happen - Guaranteed. 1-888-93-RADIO www.radioactivedigital.com John Bartus Music From The Fabulous Florida Keys www.johnbartus.com www.cdbaby.com/bartus www.radioactivedigital.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzbluze Posted May 21, 2001 Share Posted May 21, 2001 Sorry guys, but I the "tonemaster" Eric Johnson had terrible tone when I saw him with Derek Trucks. His sound was so greased-up and processed it might as well have been coming from a computer. Far from that organic strat sound that is so amazing. Not to mention that to get such a cheesy and artificial tone he had to fiddle with his pedals so much during every song that I wanted to scream. This is contrast to his opening act, Derek Trucks, who was running an SG into a Fender Super-Reverb(?) with NO effects and had the most beautiful, singing, tone I've ever heard. Again, I know that Eric Johnson slams are not popular on guitar forums, but I have to vent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted May 21, 2001 Share Posted May 21, 2001 Ohhh yeah, I'll second the vote for all those San Francisco Summer of Love bands! Blecccch!! Also hate all that scooped out mid "90's modern rock" sound, it is soooo harsh and lifeless. Can't stand any of Robert Fripp's tones either. And as much as I love the Police, I never much like Andy Summers' sounds. I know, it's kinda hard to picture how else they could have sounded... but I guess I just don't love the Police for the guitar work, I just love the songs and I love Stewart! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif --Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricknbokker Posted May 21, 2001 Share Posted May 21, 2001 Different strokes, I guess... I always dug that Spirit In The Sky lead. Can't say exactly why, except I didn't hear it from too many other folks. The outro lead had a great tone, but the line itself sucked. Irritating tone you say? How about any Steve Howe lead when he's playing slide way up on the neck? Oh my gawd!! Yeech!!! (He's still one of my favorite players, though!) Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott from MA Posted May 21, 2001 Share Posted May 21, 2001 One word: Marshall (I'm sure I'll take a beating for that!) Scott (just another cantankerous bastard) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlChuck Posted May 22, 2001 Share Posted May 22, 2001 Lee, I love Fripp's sounds... and Andy Summers' too. Glad we agree on the Haight/Ashbury crowd, though http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif I'll add another -- the pallid Chuck Berry licks with the feeble tone on all those old Beach Boys records (among others)... -AlChuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve LeBlanc Posted May 22, 2001 Share Posted May 22, 2001 I've gotta agree with Al on this one, Fripp and Summers both had incredible tone, amongst the very best especially Fripp. Tones I hate: The Guitar solo on Tower of Power's "What is Hip" that's an ear and a stereo killer Keith Richards guitar sound on "Sympathy For The Devil", OUCH! Randy Rhodes - great guitar player but no meat to his tone Tom Scholz - very innovative and I actually loved it back in the day but really can't believe so many guitarists tried to imitate it. Eddie Van Halen from 1984 on...he did something to his sound didn't he...maybe I'm just imagining things. Oh and I agree about Santana too. My guitar tone...I hate it...hoping to improve on it very soon This message has been edited by Steve LeBlanc on 05-21-2001 at 06:13 PM http://www.youtube.com/notesleb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strychn1neaol.com Posted May 22, 2001 Share Posted May 22, 2001 the lead tone on The Rolling Stones "Sympathy for the Devil" does suck Old Metallica "seek and destroy" and such sounds awefull Randy Rhodes had weak tone but was an awesome player. I always hated Jimmy Pages tone. It is so shrill and left a hole in their sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Posted May 22, 2001 Share Posted May 22, 2001 I saw Led Zep in the 70's and I hated Pagey's tone. He had his Marshalls modified to 200 watts and couldn't really get loud enough on stage to get the ass end distortion that makes Marshalls sing. At one point the whole PA failed for about 20 seconds or so and I was sitting close and heard just what was coming off of the stage. Pagey was way louder than everyone else and it was shrill and brittle sounding. No tasty sustain. -David http://www.garageband.com/artist/MichaelangelosMuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted May 23, 2001 Share Posted May 23, 2001 Tone is completly subjective. The only problem occurs when a tone doesn't suit a style; and when clear objectivity enters the picture. It's so... aggravating when someone casually goes "don't you hate so and so's tone?" - and maybe I do, or maybe not - but my reasons are not as simple as "yes or no", because it depends on the application. Tones cited here are both great and crummy at the same time, depending on the application. A friend of mine is a big fusion guitar fan. His favorite joke, when hearing someone picking poorly/out of sync, is "hey... it's Jimmy Page's magnetic fishhooks". He can't stand Page. I understand his perspective: Page is a lousy fusoin guitarist. His picking is sloppy, he does a lot of blues phrases, and his tone is bitey/thin. BUT IT'S *perfect* for LED ZEPPELIN. "Communication Breakdown" with Allan Holdsworth's tone? Wouldn't work. Santana: he has a fuzzy fizz in the top end. As a balance to his pumped up/saturated lowend neck pickup sound, it works with his style. Too saturated for Zeppelin. Too fuzzy for Holdsworth. Perfect for "Samba Pa Ti". Eric Johnson - invented his own idiotmatic sound, which works in a fusion context and that's about it. What people don't point out is that it's not a great sound because it's the "Best" sound, but because it's such a *unique* and *different* sound. I remember when I first started playing guitar - I'd been playing for maybe 2 months or so, and a friend was given a blackface Princeton. He'd just bought a Big Muff. Fooling with it, volume up high I cranked the tone knob over to the muffled setting, rolled the tone off - *now I distinctly remember this* - and hear the warm, super smooth violin thing happening. I thought it was really cool, but at the time I *also* thought "... but you can't play rhythm guitar with this sound". Having separate amp setups wasn't an option at the time. Heard Eric the first time, I thought back to that *exact* day - I even remember the yellow bed sheet the amp was sitting on at the time, it's such a distinct memory... The point being, application is what makes a sound "good". In my area, it's made guys nutty. There isn't a "best" sound! You can't play authentic blues with a fusion sound, you're not going to get a Holdsworth tone with a Tube Screamer, Eddie's sound is too middy for death metal, don't try to play Metallica with a Fender amp, etc... That path lies insanity. Barring the above diatribe, there's the aspect of spectral balance which I think people get warped about. Back to Santana - Clapton's sound on "Bad Love" is sort of a Santana thing: fizzy top on a saturated low end sound. I *hate* that sound, *not* because of that but because the high end dominates too much, and the fuzzy harmonics covers a wider bandwidth. It goes beyond my personal boundary of taste, and at the same time is almost the diametric opposite of the "Woman Tone" era sound, which is more middy and smoother on the top. Out of spectral-balance tones bother me, but I'm not sure they bother other people. Jimi with the buzzy direct sound on "Room Full of Mirrors": I hate that, too much harmonic content in the high end, that buzzy sound... but then you listen to the bright sound of "Voodoo Chile" - perfect balance. Going right up to the edge of "Too much" high end is the trick I think. but I digress too much... Hetfield on "Kill 'Em All": that's post-BNWoHM sound, Marshall cranked but without too much mid taken out. I don't like it as much as the Modern Metallica sound, but for that record it lends a grittyness that wouldn't be there with a more compressed/scooped tone. It was perfect for it's time. The music hadn't completely morphed into "New" metal, still had a foot in the Brit sound - just as the guitar tone did, which made it work. I don't like hearing bands do their take on "Seek and Destroy" with a scooped sound - it's not percussive enough at the mid tempo chugging of the chorus. McLaughlin - maybe too much upper mid for me, but those recordings of Mahavishnu all seemed a hair shrill to me anyhow. For the utility of it it was perfect. Fripp - uhg. Always seems to have too much upper mid. He's probably thinking in terms of clarity at speed, which is true - Gambale does the same thing I think, but the downside is that sustained tones sound kazoo-like. The result is "clinical"; but at the same time the old King Crimson records had a certain sound because of that; I think Alex Lifeson took that sound and did it right later on in Rush on _Hemispheres_. Andy Summers - too much of the mid knob on the Marshall. At the same time, that mid sound made certain things have a particular type of distant sounding appeal: "Behind My Camel", for instance, and the dry timbre of his sounds on "Regatta De Blanc", and "Walking on the Moon" - that piercing mid gives it that "Police" character, I wouldn't want *him* to use any other tone. "Sympathy for the Devil" - perfect for that. Maybe just that.. Eddie post-1984: I don't like it as much. BUT - there were a couple of songs on 5150 where that wide chorus made the sound of the song; I can't remember the specific tune, but... uhg. The song "Get Up" was one, but the specific one I can't remember, ahgg.. Outside of that, it's too washy - it's *too* big. Before, in only one speaker it sounded HEEYOOGE because it totally dominated that space, that one stereo speaker. With that same sound chorused out and spread across the mix, it's now fighting the dreaded Alex VanHalen Cymbal Wash. You can't focus in on it as much and absorb it like the old "mono" sound.... Randy Rhoads - lots of high mid. BUT - when he did triple tracked bends on wound strings it lent itself to a particular chrowwwllll that was unique and gave the overall band sound a certain type of weight that was cool. It's was very in your face; Max-what's his face's production balanced it well, I'm sure it could have been annoying but I think those first two Ozzy records has some great sounds on them. I think he was trying to achieve a violin-like spectral balance, and I think it works in that respect (ignoring the ADSR attributes, which is what I think most people focus on in Eric Johnson and Holdsworth's "violin" effects...). I wouldn't want any of those records to have been done with any other sounds, it's integral. I can't think of many pro recordings where the guitar sound was *completely* inappropriate; most pro engineers/producers take care of the artistic interpretation in that respect I think. HOWEVER - I'm not wild about what Dave Matthews is doing on electic guitar; just about everywhere there's electric on what I've heard of the new recording I think it would have been better acoustic... ------------------ New and Improved Music Soon: http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat0124 Posted May 23, 2001 Share Posted May 23, 2001 I think it has alot to do with how the songs were recorded anyway. Randy Rhoads live sounded different than on record. Recently I saw Steve Earle, and though I love damn near everything he does, sometimes I wince at some of the guitar tones, in concert that was totally erased....he rocked with authority......sublime. Remember Foghat's breakthrough record "I just want to make love to you"? Possibly the worst recorded song of modern time.....sounds like they pegged the meters. I don't think Hendrix was recorded very well early on in his career, of course by the time he was cutting "Eazy Rider" he had it goin on. On the Fripp tones......his aural landscapes to me are seriously intense, and full of orchestrational loops, moaning and soaring. Just doesn't sound like a guitar! Ha Ha!!!! It is what it is. 21st Century Schitzoid Man it ain't. Ry Cooder is a tone monster, but I've heard some Captain Beefheart stuff where he seems buried in the mix, and a bit thin. And yeah I totally agree, tone is subjective. After all we don't all hear the same do we.........huh? What did you say???? Say again???? HUH???? Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txh194psu.edu Posted May 23, 2001 Share Posted May 23, 2001 Most of John Lee Hooker; it sounds like he's playing through a clock radio. Love his playing, hate the tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txh194psu.edu Posted May 23, 2001 Share Posted May 23, 2001 Most of John Lee Hooker; it sounds like he's playing through a clock radio. Love his playing, hate the tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve LeBlanc Posted May 23, 2001 Share Posted May 23, 2001 I agree that tone is subjective Chip...just giving my subjective opinion...I'm not saying Lee or anyone else is wrong to like the guitar tone on "Sympathy for the Devil" just that I personally hate it http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif. I want to Fripp a bit...I don't think he had one tone...over his career he demonstrated several different sounds...all well thought out and musical. IMO http://www.youtube.com/notesleb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted May 23, 2001 Author Share Posted May 23, 2001 Yeppir, Chip, Tone *is* subjective...hence the title for the thread, "Examples of tone *you* hate". Your points about trying to use a Holdsworth tone on a Zeppelin record and vice versa are well taken. Then again...if Zeppelin records had been recorded with Holdsworth tones from the get go, we'd think they fit perfectly. Or would we? Now, a second part to that original question... If you find yourself covering a song where you hate the original guitar tone...will you stay "faithful" to the original and try to dial it in as closely as you can (perhaps even with a bit of mocking, just a tad, mind you)...or will you modify your tone to the way you think it should have been??? "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 Originally posted by Steve LeBlanc: I agree that tone is subjective Chip...just giving my subjective opinion...I'm not saying Lee or anyone else is wrong to like the guitar tone on "Sympathy for the Devil" just that I personally hate it http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif. No Steve, you're just wrong. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif --Lee This message has been edited by Lee Flier on 05-23-2001 at 05:45 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 Originally posted by Tedster: Now, a second part to that original question... If you find yourself covering a song where you hate the original guitar tone...will you stay "faithful" to the original and try to dial it in as closely as you can (perhaps even with a bit of mocking, just a tad, mind you)...or will you modify your tone to the way you think it should have been??? It depends what it is. 90% of the time I just do it the way I want to do it - that is, I try to make it sound better or like I think it should have sounded. But once in awhile if I think some tone is so outrageously cheesy that it's really worth making fun of, I'll try and mock it, as you say. Exaggerate the hell out of it. It can be funny, and it can be even funnier when some people think you're being serious! --Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 Originally posted by Tedster: vice versa are well taken. Then again...if Zeppelin records had been recorded with Holdsworth tones from the get go, we'd think they fit perfectly. Or would we? No, I don't think so. It wouldn't have been successful. You need that bright attack for the intro to "Communication Breakdown", for instance. It wouldn't have worked. If you find yourself covering a song where you hate the original guitar tone...will you stay "faithful" to the original and try to dial it in as When it comes down to it, there are basically 3 types of electric guitar sounds: Clean Overdriven Saturated It will probably work provided one stays within those categories. ------------------ New and Improved Music Soon: http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Gauss Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 i don't like that generic scraping sound of an acoustic guitar that is plugged in with a piezo pickup. i'd rather hear the damn thing miked or the part played on an electric with a clean sound.... i also don't like the sound of whoever that kid is who seems to be shopping at the music store whenever i'm there and still doesn't quite have that metallica riff down yet though he insists on deafenling proving to the whole store that he indeed does... read the sign dude "no stairway to heaven" -d. gauss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat0124 Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 Probably gonna get flame sprayed, but I have ALWAYS loved the Stones guitar sounds. Reminds me of two alley cats rippin and roarin, catching serious grooves. Alot of people forget how good Ronnie Wood or Mick Taylor are, and how Keith adds so much to a song. I imagine if you don't like a driven Fender sound, you might not like the Stones. Often imitated.......very often. Must've done something right. Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted May 24, 2001 Author Share Posted May 24, 2001 D. Gauss said... >>>i also don't like the sound of whoever that kid is who seems to be shopping at the music store whenever i'm there and still doesn't quite have that metallica riff down yet though he insists on deafenling proving to the whole store that he indeed does... read the sign dude "no stairway to heaven" -d. gauss That kid lives in every town. Hangs around in every music store. Careful...he's a shape shifter. He can be blond wearing a black T-Shirt...and then you drive across town to another store and there he is...only he's got black hair, glasses, and a red T-shirt. He learns a new song once in awhile...right now, he's still on "Enter Sandman". Other songs he's liked to play over the years include "Stairway"..."Smoke on the Water"...etc...proving he's like "Dorian Gray"...he never ages. The stores need to update their signs from "No Stairway" to "No Sandman". "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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