Child's beginer keyboard?

[pairustwo]

I would like to provide my daughter, who is only four years old, a keyboard to play with and begin instruction on.

At first I thought that an inexpensive keyboard would be fine for a beginner but I have been told, and read here that an authentically weighted keyboard is crucial for students who may go onto play a real piano. The problem is that I really can't afford a weighted keyboard.

 

My questions are:

Is it better to skip a keyboard altogether rather than have an unweighted instrument as her first experience with a keyboard?

and:

Are there weighted keyboards out there for under $300? I have a computer and Garageband so it doesn't need to have it's own library of sounds.

 

Thanks for any advice.

 

Pairustwo

[delirium]

take a look at casio privia:

casio

 

if new one is for around 500$, used one or on sale can be around 300$ or less.

It has very nice action and sound is ok.

And you're right don't start teach somebody piano

on not weighted keyboard.

[NoahZark]

Originally posted by delirium:

And you're right don't start teach somebody piano on not weighted keyboard.

Well, wait a sec. I'm firmly of the school that a child should start learning piano on a fully weighted keybed, but, if the choice is truly between starting/learning on an unweighted keybed or not playing at all, I would definitely vote for the unweighted keybed. Learning and being able to play music is a virtue even if it can't be done under ideal conditions or with ideal equipment. Heck, if the only thing you can afford to buy a kid is a $5 recorder, do it, so that they can have music be a part of their life!

 

All that said, I agree with Delirium that a used Casio Privia (which is a decent weighted keyboard) can probably be found in your price range.

 

Good luck!

 

Noah

[delirium]

Originally posted by NoahZark:

Well, wait a sec. I'm firmly of the school that a child should start learning piano on a fully weighted keybed, but, if the choice is truly between starting/learning on an unweighted keybed or not playing at all, I would definitely vote for the unweighted keybed. Learning and being able to play music is a virtue even if it can't be done under ideal conditions or with ideal equipment. Heck, if the only thing you can afford to buy a kid is a $5 recorder, do it, so that they can have music be a part of their life!

[/QB]

I think it is only theoretically good thinking,

because learning piano on bad keybed wont teach you any technique, and even worse can get you bad habits.

So when some day you buy proper keyboard youll need extra time to undo these habits. But that doesnt mean you cannot enjoy music without it, you can buy a guitar or a flute to start learning music. Also the cheapest instrument ever is your voice, so sing along and enjoy.

In addition playing on bad, toy like instrument doesnt give you real joy, so chances are you quit playing anyway.

[NoahZark]

Originally posted by delirium:

In addition playing on bad, toy like instrument doesnt give you real joy, so chances are you quit playing anyway.

That's quite a generalization. It may not give you real joy, but a four year-old may be willing to sit at a "toy like instrument" for hours of sheer delight! So, respectfully, I disagree. As has been discussed in other threads recently, however, it's these differences of opinion that keep this place interesting.

 

Noah

[Jazzwee]

Casio CDP 100 is only $399 at Guitar Center. There may even be lesser prices online.

 

My problem with "toy like instruments" is that you end up, in a very short amount of time, buying another instrument that is more capable. So it's a true waste of money for someone wanting to use it for more than a few months.

 

I saw the huge stacks of "toy" Yamaha PSRs and Casio CTK/WK's at GC. This just shows how many people buy this on whim as a Christmas present. I'm sure they sit around unused in the house shortly after Christmas.

 

The issue here is that you cannot learn to play "seriously" on a toy keyboard. I do acknowledge, NoahZark, that a kid could play with a toy and have lots of fun. But if the kid will eventually start lessons, then money was wasted to save a couple of hundred bucks at the beginning.

[NoahZark]

Guys:

 

For the record, I never recommended buying a toy. In fact, to the contrary, I agreed with Delirium that a non-toy-like instrument (like a used Privia) could be had in the oringal poster's price range, and I echoed the sentiments of many others that learning on a weighted keyboard is far preferable to learning on an unweighted keyboard. The only thing I took issue with was the statement that you'd be better off learning on nothing at all than an unweighted board. That, I think, is wrong.

 

Noah

[NoahZark]

P.S. It bears emphasis that the prospective student at issue here is FOUR YEARS OLD. Others may disagree with this as well, but, at that age, I don't believe anyone should be "learning to play seriously." She should be learning to play, period (with "play" having all of its various meanings in this context). If a child is exposed to music at an early age and develops a love for it through "play" (even if the "isntrument" itself is only a toy), that appreciation will serve her long-term interest in music at least as well as being placed at the keyboard of a Steinway grand and being taught to "play seriously" from day one. Again, SHE'S FOUR.

 

Where's the perspective here, fellas?

 

Noah

[delirium]

Originally posted by Jazzwee:

My problem with "toy like instruments" is that you end up, in a very short amount of time, buying another instrument that is more capable. So it's a true waste of money for someone wanting to use it for more than a few months.

totally agree, it's waste of money and false idea of saving, bacause when you buy toy for 200$ you won't sell it, but when you buy board for 400$ you still can sell it for 200$. In both cases you loose 200$ but you had much better instrument and joy.

[ProfD]

A toy keyboard is perfect for a 4-year old.

 

How many baby grands end up as furniture in the homes of people "hoping" their kids became musicians?

 

Someone born to make music can learn how to "play" on any kind of board if it is truly their desire.

 

Are we training a classical pianist or a keyboard player?

 

It is the desire of the musician that will keep them moving forward. Gear becomes a totally different obsession.

 

Pick up any one of the keyboards suggested or whatever your budget can afford. Time will tell whether or not the child is truly interested in the pursuit of music.

 

If the kid gets serious about it, they will end up buying better boards anyway.

 

Getting the right teacher is probably the expense that should not be spared.

 

Those are the folks who seem to do more to encourage or discourage a potential musician.

[soundscape]

Originally posted by ProfD:

Someone born to make music can learn how to "play" on any kind of board if it is truly their desire.

That's what the pots, pans, and kitchen utensils are for.

[ProfD]

Originally posted by soundscape:

Originally posted by ProfD:

Someone born to make music can learn how to "play" on any kind of board if it is truly their desire.

That's what the pots, pans, and kitchen utensils are for.

Those potential musicians are drummers.

 

It takes something a little more sophisticated to facilitate a budding keyboardist.

[delirium]

Originally posted by ProfD:

A toy keyboard is perfect for a 4-year old.

totally agree, but we're not talking here about playing, only about starting to actually teach child playing instrument. Playing with toys on its own and playing instrument under supervision are totally different thing.

[soundscape]

Originally posted by ProfD:

Originally posted by soundscape:

Originally posted by ProfD:

Someone born to make music can learn how to "play" on any kind of board if it is truly their desire.

That's what the pots, pans, and kitchen utensils are for.

Those potential musicians are drummers.

Hmm... well, I used to do that.

[NoahZark]

Originally posted by ProfD:

A toy keyboard is perfect for a 4-year old.

 

How many baby grands end up as furniture in the homes of people "hoping" their kids became musicians?

 

Someone born to make music can learn how to "play" on any kind of board if it is truly their desire.

 

Are we training a classical pianist or a keyboard player?

 

It is the desire of the musician that will keep them moving forward. Gear becomes a totally different obsession.

 

Pick up any one of the keyboards suggested or whatever your budget can afford. Time will tell whether or not the child is truly interested in the pursuit of music.

 

If the kid gets serious about it, they will end up buying better boards anyway.

 

Getting the right teacher is probably the expense that should not be spared.

 

Those are the folks who seem to do more to encourage or discourage a potential musician.

ProfD:

 

I find myself agreeing with your posts with a high degree of regularity these days, and this one is no exception. You're spot on, especially your comment about not skimping on a good teacher.

 

Noah

[Jazzwee]

The question really is what the parent intends to do after. At the early ages, it isn't the kid that decides on piano lessons. It is the parent. Whether or not the kid chooses to continue with piano lessons is another story. But if and when the kid starts piano lessons, the kid will require weighted keys and any teacher will push that.

 

Thus, if pairustwo already knows this as the direction of the future, buying a toy keyboard will be a waste of money as another keyboard will have to be purchased. If a board like a Casio CDP-100 is purchased, the weighted keys will be good for lessons in the foreseeable future.

 

An instrument like a Casio CDP is the minimal kind of investment for piano lessons. It is no baby grand piano and it is 26 lbs -- easily stored. Also it has resale value. A toy does not. This is the cheapest weighted keys I'm aware of at under $400.

 

I went through this. I bought my kid a Yamaha PSR and 6 months later I was already buying another keyboard. That PSR was expensive after buying extras and it was a complete waste of money.

 

BTW - Pairustwo, if you can't afford it, why buy it now? At 4, pots and pans are ok.

[Moonglow]

The important issue here for your daughter is to stimulate interest and have fun. A more toy-like keyboard with a ton of different sounds may even be preferable in this regard. I've seen several by Casio, Yamaha, etc., that can be had for reasonable prices at joints like Sam's Club, Radio Shack, etc. Hell, even that crazy "Blue Man Group" keyboard may work. Again, the important thing is to "hook" your daughter into playing music by having fun. Shortly thereafter, however, get her a more serious instrument. I second the Casio Privia recommendation.

[soundscape]

Originally posted by Jazzwee:

I went through this. I bought my kid a Yamaha PSR and 6 months later I was already buying another keyboard. That PSR was expensive after buying extras and it was a complete waste of money.

Which one did you get?

[soundscape]

Originally posted by Jazzwee:

I went through this. I bought my kid a Yamaha PSR and 6 months later I was already buying another keyboard. That PSR was expensive after buying extras and it was a complete waste of money.

Which one did you get?

[pairustwo]

Maybe I can clarify my intentions here. I grew up without music or instruments of any kind and having grown up valuing music above all else I've also grown up to resent my parents for not exposing me and encouraging me to learn to read and play music. I don't want that for my daughter.

 

I intend to steer her towards a string instrument as she gets older but It is my understanding that all musicians must contend with the piano when it comes to theory and composition.

 

The keyboard I want is for her to learn to see music as something she can make, which means a combination of banging and noise and at some point later on keyboard instruction. I see most of her instruction on a more portable instrument but she may feel differently.

 

Either way I see the keyboard as part of her musical education.

 

I don't know if that will change any positions here. And I still don't know what I should do in terms of a weighted keyboard or a cheap midi controller with "semi weighted action"

[pairustwo]

Pots and Pans may be the way to go. At what age do children begin to be able to play the keyboard in a technical way, ie begin lessons?

 

Pairustwo

[delirium]

Originally posted by pairustwo:

Pots and Pans may be the way to go. At what age do children begin to be able to play the keyboard in a technical way, ie begin lessons?

 

Pairustwo

as soon as they can comprehend instruction and focus.

It happens usually around 5 but can vary depending on child.

 

look here, "famous" 4 year old drummer:

drummer

[ProfD]

I'm certainly not advocating a $20 monophonic, keyboard-based noise box.

 

I also agreed that any one of the keyboards mentioned (Privia or CDP) would suffice in terms of the weighted keyboard action.

 

I still do not believe we are training a classical pianist. Merely trying to provide exposure to the instrument.

 

Parents have a motivation/intention when it comes to was evidenced by Pairustwo's comment about not having a proper instrument growing up.

 

Yet, he redeemed himself in mentioning that he wants his 4-year old to have fun too.

 

At some point he plans to transition her to a string instrument.

 

Otherwise, a decent keyboard with a variety of sounds, bells and whistles will enable his little girl to learn how to play keyboard providing she develops an interest in it.

 

That is what we are trying to facilitate. The jury is still out.

[NoahZark]

Originally posted by pairustwo:

At what age do children begin to be able to play the keyboard in a technical way, ie begin lessons?

My experience is that most piano teachers want kids to be able to read (words, not music) at a basic level before they begin formal instruction.

 

Also, one other unsolicited piece of advice: Although I agree that learning piano provides a wonderful foundation for learning music theory, it is by no means necessary to "start on piano" before moving on to a string instrument. My mother has taught violin and and viola for over 35 years, and she has plenty of accomplished students who never once sat at a piano or took a piano lesson. If, ultimately, you want your daughter to play a different instrument, there's no reason that she can't start on that instrument. (Of course, a beginner pianist is far easier on the ears of the parent than a beginner violinist! )

 

I applaud you for wanting to give your child the gift of music.

 

Noah

[Jazzwee]

Originally posted by soundscape:

Originally posted by Jazzwee:

I went through this. I bought my kid a Yamaha PSR and 6 months later I was already buying another keyboard. That PSR was expensive after buying extras and it was a complete waste of money.

Which one did you get?

I got a PSR 273 which doesn't even have full size keys. For just musical joy, there are plenty of instruments that are much cheaper than a piano. Recorders. Harmonicas. Toy drums. Toy guitars. By the time I got the stand and power supply (which is not included in the price), I was up over $300 and truly a waste for a toy. That's an expensive toy. No resale value whatsoever. So if one is on a tight budget, and this is just for toy purposes, perhaps this is not the toy to get. I don't even expect a kid of 5-6 to comprehend piano playing or even to have the physical capability to use a piano.

 

How about a pair of drumsticks and some toy drum? (Wrapped nicely of course). I'm serious about this. I have a 4 year old too. I'm surrounded by keyboards and guitars and drums at my house. He's gravitating to banging on the drums. He's taking musical classes which are just introductory fun lessons, they are not actually learning an instrument.

 

I have two older kids who have been on their respective instruments for 4 years now. The younger one started at 8, the older one 9. I felt that was a good time to start to sustain their interest. Both show talent. My older boy now has very sustained musical interest and his music teacher is recommending that he apply to a performance arts high school. The point is that I didn't start them too young to take music seriously because in the long run we cannot force it. It has to come from inside the child.