Are keyboard players becoming a dying breed?

[Dick Ward MP Hall of Fame]

Soundscape, not to nitpick, but GnR does have a new album! Just messin with ya, it's gonna suck.

 

 

Anyway, you raise a good point, 'rock' is mainly chord strumming meloncholy crap right now. In metal there are one or two guitar players that are making people pick up the instrument (Alexi Laiho... seems like I've said that name a million times this last week, must be the sig series thread, but one more album and Bodom is gonna be giant) But in rock it seems to be strum a bunch of minor chords in a row, song ends. Just like the grunge scene, everyone too depressed to hit a major chord, or play at a decent tempo.

[soundscape]

Originally posted by Dick Ward (MP Hall of Fame Wannabe):

Soundscape, not to nitpick, but GnR does have a new album! Just messin with ya, it's gonna suck.

LOL, yeah, when's the release date?

 

Anyway, you raise a good point, 'rock' is mainly chord strumming meloncholy crap right now. In metal there are one or two guitar players that are making people pick up the instrument (Alexi Laiho... seems like I've said that name a million times this last week, must be the sig series thread, but one more album and Bodom is gonna be giant) But in rock it seems to be strum a bunch of minor chords in a row, song ends. Just like the grunge scene, everyone too depressed to hit a major chord

Really? I haven't looked at (or attempted to work out) recent rock chords. I mean, the songs are (to me) so bad I can't listen to them. I can't stand depressing music... music is all about energy to me.

[Dick Ward MP Hall of Fame]

Eh, can't promise the chords are right, but the point is valid. Nicklebacks, Creeds, blah. It's all boring, depressing and droning. And don't even get me started on Emo. "Waah, I'm a 16 year old boy who is depressed at all that life has to offer, I'm gonna cut my hair so I look like a goth chick". Buncha whiny...

 

 

As far as Guns N Roses, the new album is supposed to be 2007. Then again, it was announced in 1997, so who knows. I've heard a few leaks, nothing special so far. Of course, it lacks Izzy, Duff and Slash, so, you know. Slash sucks solo, Axl sucks solo. Just kills me, they could have been the biggest thing ever and they just fell apart. Still pretty damn big though, eh?

[soundscape]

Originally posted by Dick Ward (MP Hall of Fame Wannabe):

Eh, can't promise the chords are right, but the point is valid.

Well, I like to research things carefully so I don't end up with faulty point of view/information stored in my head.

 

I found some chords of Coldplay's stuff (sample pages on sheet music sites), OK, so it might be inaccurate and it's not a big enough sample, but their songwriting looks pretty weak to me. I don't get why that sort of thing isn't fiercely criticized, if everyone's gonna go around saying how bad Britney Spears is. (Her earlier songs appear to be much better written than the Coldplay stuff I found.)

 

Nicklebacks, Creeds, blah. It's all boring, depressing and droning. And don't even get me started on Emo. "Waah, I'm a 16 year old boy who is depressed at all that life has to offer, I'm gonna cut my hair so I look like a goth chick". Buncha whiny...

Totally agree!!!

 

As far as Guns N Roses, the new album is supposed to be 2007. Then again, it was announced in 1997, so who knows. I've heard a few leaks, nothing special so far. Of course, it lacks Izzy, Duff and Slash, so, you know. Slash sucks solo, Axl sucks solo. Just kills me, they could have been the biggest thing ever and they just fell apart. Still pretty damn big though, eh?

If you ask me Gn'R did some of the greatest rock songs ever, you can't beat "Appetite for Destruction." But in the end, well, who knows, internal wranglings apart I don't know if their songwriting craft was enough to keep the material going. I remember reading somewhere that many of the songs on "Use Your Illusion" were written before "Appetite for Destruction."

 

For sure we need a NEW Gn'R for today!

[Dave Horne]

Originally posted by soundscape:

Originally posted by Blue JC:

My concern is for the future of live keyboard playing.

I'd ask the question: Is live performance an anachronism?

 

(I hope I'm not going to get pelted for asking this!)

Oxymoron ... contradiction in terms? Jumbo shrimp, baby grand piano, military intelligence, stationary bike, etc.

[soundscape]

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

Originally posted by soundscape:

I'd ask the question: Is live performance an anachronism?

 

(I hope I'm not going to get pelted for asking this!)

Oxymoron ... contradiction in terms? Jumbo shrimp, baby grand piano, military intelligence, stationary bike, etc.

LOL.

[Dick Ward MP Hall of Fame]

For sure we need a NEW Gn'R for today!

We're trying! New EP is slated for September. Sounds great so far (though I may be biased). Now, if we can outsell Appetite for Destruction, we're set.

 

Anyone wanna preorder a CD?

[Ed A.]

They're discussing something similar about guitar players on that other forum:

 

how come nobody can play the guitar anymore? .

 

Personally I think the subject is just exaggeration, there are many keyboard and guitar players still out there.

[Ed A.]

[soundscape]

Originally posted by Dick Ward (MP Hall of Fame Wannabe):

For sure we need a NEW Gn'R for today!

We're trying! New EP is slated for September. Sounds great so far (though I may be biased). Now, if we can outsell Appetite for Destruction, we're set.

Hehe, thought you guys were er... 'metaler'(?) than Gn'R?

[soundscape]

Originally posted by Ed A.:

They're discussing something similar about guitar players on that other forum:

 

how come nobody can play the guitar anymore? .

 

Personally I think the subject is just exaggeration, there are many keyboard and guitar players still out there.

As I said above, I think that rock isn't doing so well these days. I don't know whether this is truly reflected in fewer people that can play guitar to a high standard, though.

 

IMO there's some truths in that thread, but many of the typical faulty ideas that people have on the state of music. (Or moreover, the reasons for it getting into that state.)

[Dick Ward MP Hall of Fame]

Originally posted by soundscape:

Originally posted by Dick Ward (MP Hall of Fame Wannabe):

For sure we need a NEW Gn'R for today!

We're trying! New EP is slated for September. Sounds great so far (though I may be biased). Now, if we can outsell Appetite for Destruction, we're set.

Hehe, thought you guys were er... 'metaler'(?) than Gn'R?

Yeah, we're more metalilcious than GnR, doesn't mean we don't wanna be em C'mon, Slash solos and the weather changes, that's better than being a level 15 scientologist! Seriously though, we've got a sound that's different and I really think this next effort is gonna be well received. Our last one got decent reviews and we've matured a lot since then, musically, and in our dedication. So we'll see, I know I'll be hitting you guys with way too many samples

[soundscape]

Originally posted by Dick Ward (MP Hall of Fame Wannabe):Yeah, we're more metalilcious than GnR, doesn't mean we don't wanna be em C'mon, Slash solos and the weather changes, that's better than being a level 15 scientologist!

LOL.

 

Seriously though, we've got a sound that's different and I really think this next effort is gonna be well received. Our last one got decent reviews and we've matured a lot since then, musically, and in our dedication. So we'll see, I know I'll be hitting you guys with way too many samples

Look forward to hearing 'em!

[The Real MC]

Yeah I think keyboard players are a dying breed. We live in an era of instant gratification, and the younger ones don't want to put the hard work into practicing.

 

I never got on the "upgrade treadmill". I saw that coming back in the DX-7 days and I wanted no part of it. When I bought gear, it was with the expectation that I got minimum ten years of practical use out of it. I did get rid of some redundant stuff throughout this time. I'm still using my ancient 486/Windows for Workgroups 3.11 for MIDI sequencing - because it's not broken, so why fix it?

 

In my town (not a big one, mind you) I am one of a handful of accomplished keyboard players. But due to my current work situation I am not in any position to gig now. I am also 43 and questioning whether I want to continue gigging.

 

Gigging is a lot of fun and I enjoy it. But the bar scene is getting old to a lot of people, myself included. There are fewer and fewer bars to play and fewer patrons going to bars. It doesn't help that the blue collar jobs have all but disappeared from the scene.

[Dave Horne]

The Real McCoy,

Yeah I think keyboard players are a dying breed. We live in an era of instant gratification, and the younger ones don't want to put the hard work into practicing.

I'm glad you said that and not I.

[soundscape]

Originally posted by The Real MC:

Yeah I think keyboard players are a dying breed. We live in an era of instant gratification, and the younger ones don't want to put the hard work into practicing.

Hmm... we do? Aren't more people completing undergraduate-level education than ever?

 

I would ask, though, who wants to go through "classical"-type piano training when that's not what they want to play. I suspect in decades past kids might have been more likely to "do what they were told" on that one.

 

I never got on the "upgrade treadmill". I saw that coming back in the DX-7 days and I wanted no part of it. When I bought gear, it was with the expectation that I got minimum ten years of practical use out of it. I did get rid of some redundant stuff throughout this time. I'm still using my ancient 486/Windows for Workgroups 3.11 for MIDI sequencing - because it's not broken, so why fix it?

I strongly agree with buying good gear that lasts instead of whatever is marketed as the "latest and greatest". But, technology does advance and product improvements/refinements are made. A 486 is OK for MIDI sequencing (though really, a modern DAW can do so much more) but Windows 3.11 not broken? LOL. Windows 3.x is hardly the most stable OS ever, one application can bring the whole thing crashing down. (Due to unprotected memory.)

 

Gigging is a lot of fun and I enjoy it. But the bar scene is getting old to a lot of people, myself included. There are fewer and fewer bars to play and fewer patrons going to bars. It doesn't help that the blue collar jobs have all but disappeared from the scene.

I mentioned this earlier, but maybe I'll bring it up again--(Dave Horne's oxymoron comment aside) is live performance an anachronism? Or to be a little more blunt: why should anyone leave their home for entertainment? How does a concert DVD on a high end home theatre compare to seeing a local band? What about the fact that people have 1,000s of songs on their iPod that they hear all day? Even movie theatres are losing business...

 

Now I'm not giving my view here, just asking what I believe are relevant questions for today.

[The Real MC]

Originally posted by soundscape:

Originally posted by The Real MC:

I never got on the "upgrade treadmill". I saw that coming back in the DX-7 days and I wanted no part of it. When I bought gear, it was with the expectation that I got minimum ten years of practical use out of it. I did get rid of some redundant stuff throughout this time. I'm still using my ancient 486/Windows for Workgroups 3.11 for MIDI sequencing - because it's not broken, so why fix it?

... but Windows 3.11 not broken? LOL. Windows 3.x is hardly the most stable OS ever, one application can bring the whole thing crashing down. (Due to unprotected memory.)

Ah but I neglected to mention that a) my MIDI sequencer is the only app running on it and b) WIN311 is the best OS for minimum latency MIDI sequencing. My sequences have zero slop.

 

It's VERY stable, mind you.

[soundscape]

Originally posted by The Real MC:

Ah but I neglected to mention that a) my MIDI sequencer is the only app running on it and b) WIN311 is the best OS for minimum latency MIDI sequencing. My sequences have zero slop.

 

It's VERY stable, mind you.

But I'll still bet you can't have a month or more of uptime.

 

Well, that's interesting. I guess one of the things that makes Windows 3.11 "broken" (cooperative multitasking) results in better MIDI latency performance.

 

I wonder, how does it compare to pre-OS X versions of Mac OS, and today's OSes? Are there figures anywhere?

[Dave Horne]

I mentioned this earlier, but maybe I'll bring it up again--(Dave Horne's oxymoron comment aside) is live performance an anachronism? Or to be a little more blunt: why should anyone leave their home for entertainment?

Well, sometimes live music\entertainment is an added attraction while eating a meal in a restaurant for one example ... or to provide atmosphere during a party. People might not leave their homes as they used to (for entertainment), but musicians are still hired to provide atmosphere; I know I am. It might be music to be ignored by (on some occasions) but it's still work. One outfit I work for rents grand pianos for me to play, it's visual. I could save them money by using my electric set up, but the visual impact of an acoustic grand is what they want. That's not going away any time soon.

 

Getting back to working hard for long term goals ... the manufacturers are partly to blame for this. With technology, it's so easy to include features to dumb down the player. The manufacturers might only be concerned with having one feature their competitors don't have but the impact is long term ... and certainly not in a positive sense.

[Ed Coury]

Originally posted by Dick Ward (MP Hall of Fame Wannabe):

Right now, every keyboardist I see on TV (when I see them) is more concerned with playing accurately than having fun. That's not doing us any good guys.

Well, many genres of music actually depend on playing accurately.....admittedly others can get away with the sounds of someone vomitting while humping the top 3 octaves of their keyboard while dancing around a pentagram, and still be appreciated by fans of said genres... ;-)

[Eric Iverson]

I hardly thinking the art of piano playing is going to disappear any time soon, or in our lifetimes.

 

Even classical piano still has its fans, and some of them are youngsters!

 

If I had a nickel for every doomsday article I've read over the years about jazz dying or classical music dying or even good rock'n'roll dying, I'd be, well not exactly rich, but I could take my wife out to a good dinner....

[Dick Ward MP Hall of Fame]

Now be fair, I only hump 2 octaves, 2 and a half at most. Anyway, Jerry Lee Lewis was exciting and played well at the same time, and it wasn't even metal! (wish he was though, he would've been the king... moreso)

[Blue JC]

Wow! Five pages of posts - I guess I'm not the only one who has been thinking about this problem.

 

I played a blues festival this weekend and ran into a couple of my contemporaries - other keyboard players around my age who do what I do. I mentioned this thread and sparked a live discussion that mirrors this forum discussion.

 

One of the guys said something that I have been thinking about ever since: what other instrument demands so many disciplines to master?

 

We have to be expert piano, organ, clav, synth and sample players, technologists to understand and program our gear and the band music theorist, arranger and take primary responsibility for vocal and band harmony.

 

We take the simultaneous performance of all of these disciplines for granted because we do them everyday. However, not everyone can multi-task in this way. Or, wants to multi-task in this way when it's much easier to choose another instrument that only requires that you are an expert player of that instrument. And that's all.

 

It's an interesting theory. I don't know if I agree with it or not yet but I thought that I would put it out here for discussion.

 

Best,

JC

[Garrafon]

Originally posted by Blue JC:

what other instrument demands so many disciplines to master?

 

We have to be expert piano, organ, clav, synth and sample players, technologists to understand and program our gear and the band music theorist, arranger and take primary responsibility for vocal and band harmony.

I agree with you that we have to wear many hats, although I've avoided many of the things you post by simply telling bands - hey, I play piano, elec piano, clav, and I play organ and maybe a few other things, but that's it. Take it or leave it.

 

I don't have problems finding gigs and I don't have to spend time (that I don't have) programming synths, etc.

 

I've also adopted the "minimalist" approach to gear. The fewer the buttons, sliders, LCD screens, lights, etc the more interested I am in it

[Eric VB]

Originally posted by Blue JC:

what other instrument demands so many disciplines to master?

 

We have to be expert piano, organ, clav, synth and sample players, technologists to understand and program our gear and the band music theorist, arranger and take primary responsibility for vocal and band harmony.

Well, depends on the group, don't you think? I've seen guitar-based rock bands where the keys are just playing simple one-hand vamps. Certainly seems like the guitar player wrote a lot of the songs and keys just added their part.

 

In jazz, sure, Duke set the mold. If you play piano, you must be the band leader, too, right? Now you're responsible for all that other stuff.